Installer for 0.8.6 TestNet with Wesley's interface will be released in the morning.
Night y'all.
Night y'all.
Awesome! When will it be out of testnet so we can promote it?
When we are finished testing AE?
Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 510. (Read 2761624 times)
Awesome! When will it be out of testnet so we can promote it?
When we are finished testing AE?
Funding issues
Some thoughts in response to recent discussions.
To put things in perspective, let's see what is being done and has been done in the area of funding.
What is currently available for spending:
We have over 12 million NXT available at the community's disposal for a very long time. If we include the 5M pledged by Mr 47, we're looking at over 17 million. Bulk of this ammunition has been sitting idle due to problems obtaining consensus. Remember how long the unclaimed funds debate dragged on? That's the price we have to pay for decentralization.
We are now days away from finalizing the various committees. Once that's done, they should, in short order, be able to deploy that sizable stash of reserves to fund urgently needed activities.
What has already been donated and spent:
Newer members of our community may not be aware that substantial amounts have been donated by founders during the early days, and some continue to do so till this day. Some prefer to donate publicly, others prefer to do so anonymously. So, besides the 17M currently available, many more millions had already been spent to promote and strengthen the Nxt ecosystem. If you don't see them, it does not mean that donations were not being given.
What about apparently inactive founders?
Numerous nasty, and often unfounded, comments have been thrown at founders. These are not helpful, and will only have the effect of turning away these so called whales instead of engaging with them. I wonder if more will be actively engaging if there had been less of these negative attitude. Please realize that one way or another, founders have made a collective effort to help bring Nxt to where it is today. I see 3 broad strategies adopted by the founders to achieve this:-
Strategy 1 (Short term)
Some have chosen to take the strategy of distributing NXT fast by selling very cheaply immediately after launch. Look at the early posts in the trading thread. Many of you benefited directly from these founders' strategy.
Strategy 2 (Medium term)
Others have chosen to take the strategy of distributing NXT further down the road (after the dust has settled from the early fire sales), by donating through bounties and other means. This group provided the fuel to power the Nxt economy through the stormy days of DDoS and subsequent building of the Nxt infrastructure to the state we see today.
Notice that if all founders had chosen strategy 1, we would not have seen the increase in the value of NXT. This will not have provided the incentive for early adopters to continue working on the project. It would also not have drawn in new investors. On the other hand, if all founders had chosen strategy 2, nothing would have moved and all their NXT would be worth nothing. You can see that there is a very delicate balance between these 2 strategies. They compliment each other, and they have managed to keep this delicate balance in a decentralized manner without having to collaborate like a cartel!. It's market forces and collective wisdom at play.
Strategy 3 (Long term)
All eyes are on a very small number of large founder accounts that don't seem to move. This, I think are founders who are taking a long term strategy. These founders have decided to hold substantial amounts to act as possible network defender of last resort. They provide the ammunition needed to fight off yet unknown threats which may require a large stake to defend or to fund more costly development and infrastructure further down the road. A possible example is Mr 47. If you think carefully (read between the lines) about his last 2 conditions, you'll see how that falls under strategy 3.
If we don't lose sight of the forest for the trees, we can see that free market forces and collective wisdom of all well-meaning stakeholders ultimately work towards the strengthening of the Nxt ecosystem. More engagement and less non-constructive criticisms will certainly help.
Finally.... back to funding for the core dev team, and for that matter funding for marketing & infra. I do not think founders will continue to pile more NXT into the funds if they remain underutilized. Once the committees begin to spend the funds wisely and prudently (showing results), and when it begins to run low, I am pretty sure founders and early adopters will step up to the plate. I will be one of them.
In the long term, I do not think the community should be remain reliant on central funding for building the Nxt ecosystem. While it is essential during these early days (as a bootstrapping measure), the ecosystem should develop in such a way that it will become profitable to build services. Taking Bitcoin as an example, save for Gavin, all other developers (core, client, infra) continue to support the ecosystem through indirect "privatized" means. If we continue to pick up traction, we may be there sooner than we think.
Some thoughts in response to recent discussions.
To put things in perspective, let's see what is being done and has been done in the area of funding.
What is currently available for spending:
We have over 12 million NXT available at the community's disposal for a very long time. If we include the 5M pledged by Mr 47, we're looking at over 17 million. Bulk of this ammunition has been sitting idle due to problems obtaining consensus. Remember how long the unclaimed funds debate dragged on? That's the price we have to pay for decentralization.
We are now days away from finalizing the various committees. Once that's done, they should, in short order, be able to deploy that sizable stash of reserves to fund urgently needed activities.
What has already been donated and spent:
Newer members of our community may not be aware that substantial amounts have been donated by founders during the early days, and some continue to do so till this day. Some prefer to donate publicly, others prefer to do so anonymously. So, besides the 17M currently available, many more millions had already been spent to promote and strengthen the Nxt ecosystem. If you don't see them, it does not mean that donations were not being given.
What about apparently inactive founders?
Numerous nasty, and often unfounded, comments have been thrown at founders. These are not helpful, and will only have the effect of turning away these so called whales instead of engaging with them. I wonder if more will be actively engaging if there had been less of these negative attitude. Please realize that one way or another, founders have made a collective effort to help bring Nxt to where it is today. I see 3 broad strategies adopted by the founders to achieve this:-
Strategy 1 (Short term)
Some have chosen to take the strategy of distributing NXT fast by selling very cheaply immediately after launch. Look at the early posts in the trading thread. Many of you benefited directly from these founders' strategy.
Strategy 2 (Medium term)
Others have chosen to take the strategy of distributing NXT further down the road (after the dust has settled from the early fire sales), by donating through bounties and other means. This group provided the fuel to power the Nxt economy through the stormy days of DDoS and subsequent building of the Nxt infrastructure to the state we see today.
Notice that if all founders had chosen strategy 1, we would not have seen the increase in the value of NXT. This will not have provided the incentive for early adopters to continue working on the project. It would also not have drawn in new investors. On the other hand, if all founders had chosen strategy 2, nothing would have moved and all their NXT would be worth nothing. You can see that there is a very delicate balance between these 2 strategies. They compliment each other, and they have managed to keep this delicate balance in a decentralized manner without having to collaborate like a cartel!. It's market forces and collective wisdom at play.
Strategy 3 (Long term)
All eyes are on a very small number of large founder accounts that don't seem to move. This, I think are founders who are taking a long term strategy. These founders have decided to hold substantial amounts to act as possible network defender of last resort. They provide the ammunition needed to fight off yet unknown threats which may require a large stake to defend or to fund more costly development and infrastructure further down the road. A possible example is Mr 47. If you think carefully (read between the lines) about his last 2 conditions, you'll see how that falls under strategy 3.
If we don't lose sight of the forest for the trees, we can see that free market forces and collective wisdom of all well-meaning stakeholders ultimately work towards the strengthening of the Nxt ecosystem. More engagement and less non-constructive criticisms will certainly help.
Finally.... back to funding for the core dev team, and for that matter funding for marketing & infra. I do not think founders will continue to pile more NXT into the funds if they remain underutilized. Once the committees begin to spend the funds wisely and prudently (showing results), and when it begins to run low, I am pretty sure founders and early adopters will step up to the plate. I will be one of them.
In the long term, I do not think the community should be remain reliant on central funding for building the Nxt ecosystem. While it is essential during these early days (as a bootstrapping measure), the ecosystem should develop in such a way that it will become profitable to build services. Taking Bitcoin as an example, save for Gavin, all other developers (core, client, infra) continue to support the ecosystem through indirect "privatized" means. If we continue to pick up traction, we may be there sooner than we think.
Thanks Pouncer, I think most can agree with many things you say.
Nevertheless, the picture you draw is unrealistically romantic: most whales have a noble strategy that is focused on short, middle or long term goals...
Come on, that is
Founders are a heterogeneous group, some smart and active, some selfish free-riders.
That's it, that's life.
Don't put pressure on the small guys for
Wesley's client is going to be the primary download available next week from nxtcrypo.org. So NRS will be replaced with this.
This will make life a lot easier for current and future NXT users. This client will be promoted as the primary client on WIKI as well, but all other client options will be available with a short description about them.
That's how I understand it will work out.
+1440
His client looks amazing.
I think this is very clear now, so J-L, implement it please in place of NSR.
Wesleyh and mistafreeze should be paid from unclaimed coins NXTinfrastructurefund when delivered.
Why infrastructure fund and not tech dev fund?
I dont know if this is relevant...but there is someone who is stealing nxtcoins from "bad-protected" accounts.
I've just created an account with the pass: "mtvraps" to check and play. I made the nxtra.org faucet and they sent me 2nxt to this account "14345877598619007537". One minute after, someone sent these 2nxtcoins to other account (of course it was not me). The account was: "1413811113623034318". I suppose there is a bot checking all the possible weak passwords...
It could be funny but......TAKE CARE!
I've just created an account with the pass: "mtvraps" to check and play. I made the nxtra.org faucet and they sent me 2nxt to this account "14345877598619007537". One minute after, someone sent these 2nxtcoins to other account (of course it was not me). The account was: "1413811113623034318". I suppose there is a bot checking all the possible weak passwords...
It could be funny but......TAKE CARE!
I'm not a coder and I have no knowledge of softwaresecurity....but is there an option to use a 2w-factor-verification? Securityweakness could be the most dangerous problem to NXT mass adaption.
I agree
would be necessary to encourage any client developer to implement 2 factor authentication
What would you like to protect with 2FA? The startup of a client or do you think you can protect the secret with 2FA?
If the later, could you please list the steps how that would work?
Wesleyh and mistafreeze should be paid from unclaimed coins NXTinfrastructurefund when delivered.
+ 1440 ! EDIT: There are ~3 mil NXTs in NXTtechdevfund, and Wesleyh deserves a huge pile of them.
CFB, are you the only one communicating with BCNext? Who will be in touch with him when you depart in 3 1/2 weeks?
He had left the day before Nxt source code became public. Went for good to work on other things. I'll get 3rd part of the plan in April but I can't contact him anymore.
BCNext gave us a gift. He gave us a chance to provide economic freedom for everyone regardless of their socio-economic status. Economic freedom is the most important freedom. Regardless of other freedoms we possess, without it, we are enslaved. As we forge our way into the future, we should remember the ideals that NXT was founded upon: freedom from the centralization, wastefulness and cost of economic security.
Bitcoin was the first generation. We are the NXT generation.
Ok. All fees go to the genesis account.
If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.The ROI would be phenomenal. I like this idea even more now.
No, ROI will suck, as most people (including me) will sell Nxt and move to other thing as the platform won't have any future.
Ok. All fees go to the genesis account.
If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.The ROI would be phenomenal. I like this idea even more now.
LOL
We are interested in building a self-sustaining, perpetual network, not in quick ROI.
Ok. All fees go to the genesis account.
If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.The ROI would be phenomenal. I like this idea even more now.
Ok. All fees go to the genesis account.
If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.Nothing lasts forever.
At 1 NXT tx fee, all the NXT would be depleted in under eight years if the network was under full load.
You should incentive people to forge. By removing NXT tx fees, even less people will run a node to secure the network. I do agree with BCNext that TX fees should be lowered.
Ok. All fees go to the genesis account.
If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.Nothing lasts forever.
Current NXT circulation:
1. Buy NXT from initial stakeholder.
2. Register alias / send message / issue asset and pay fee to stakeholder.
3. Goto :1
As I always said, forging was created for stakeholders. You (community) always said that "when we'll have more transactions, fees would be better distributed". False! Forging is not dependent on fee in expected block. The only thing that will change is that stakeholders would get back their sold NXT faster.
Nxt is good platform. It is another P2P software like Bittorent. We need to find another way to prevent spam and get rid of NXT.
1. Buy NXT from initial stakeholder.
2. Register alias / send message / issue asset and pay fee to stakeholder.
3. Goto :1
As I always said, forging was created for stakeholders. You (community) always said that "when we'll have more transactions, fees would be better distributed". False! Forging is not dependent on fee in expected block. The only thing that will change is that stakeholders would get back their sold NXT faster.
Nxt is good platform. It is another P2P software like Bittorent. We need to find another way to prevent spam and get rid of NXT.
Ok. All fees go to the genesis account.
If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.
With or without pooled forging, people with more NXT will get more NXT by forging. People should view NXT as non-depreciating mining equipment. The more NXT you own, the more NXT you will receive. I'd rather purchase NXT than an ASIC because an ASIC will depreciate and I will earn less and less with my ASIC. With my NXT, I will always recieve "MY NXT AMOUNT" / 1,000,000,000 NXT x 100% of the network's transaction fees.
NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS NOW UNDERWAY UNTIL 12:01 AM MARCH 8 (UTC)
Per our previous poll, all three committees (NXTmarketingfund, NXTtechdevfund and NXTinfrastructure fund) will consist of five elected members.
Read candidate statements here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5280476
Background:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5280786
DETAILS ON VOTING :
NXTers WHO HAVE POSTED 5-9 TIMES TO THIS THREAD PER NEWCN'S LIST BELOW : IF YOU WANT TO VOTE, PM ME AND I ***WILL*** SEND YOU A BALLOT CODE.
LIVE ONGOING VOTE RESULTS:
https://www.electionbuddy.com/elections/12343/results/t34ayqhm2
Update: With 44 hours to go in this election, I have now distributed 385 ballot access codes so far to nominees, candidates, everybody that has ever posted 10 or more times to this thread per newcn's list of most active posters (see https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5456233 ), and various PM requesters not included in the above. I am caught up and have no outstanding PM requests for ballot codes at this time.
This election is winding down and due to my efforts at Texas Bitcoin Conference I will not be sending any more unsolicited ballot codes. I believe the numbers indicate that we have hit the law of diminishing returns on sending out additional ballots. I believe the end results of this election will constitute a fair, honest and successful effort to empanel all three NXT funding committees.
BOTTOM LINE: At this time 209 of the 385 distributed ballot access codes have been used to vote. There are 176 unutilized and 115 undistributed ballot access codes still available.
Per our previous poll, all three committees (NXTmarketingfund, NXTtechdevfund and NXTinfrastructure fund) will consist of five elected members.
Read candidate statements here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5280476
Background:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5280786
DETAILS ON VOTING :
NXTers WHO HAVE POSTED 5-9 TIMES TO THIS THREAD PER NEWCN'S LIST BELOW : IF YOU WANT TO VOTE, PM ME AND I ***WILL*** SEND YOU A BALLOT CODE.
LIVE ONGOING VOTE RESULTS:
https://www.electionbuddy.com/elections/12343/results/t34ayqhm2
Update: With 44 hours to go in this election, I have now distributed 385 ballot access codes so far to nominees, candidates, everybody that has ever posted 10 or more times to this thread per newcn's list of most active posters (see https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5456233 ), and various PM requesters not included in the above. I am caught up and have no outstanding PM requests for ballot codes at this time.
This election is winding down and due to my efforts at Texas Bitcoin Conference I will not be sending any more unsolicited ballot codes. I believe the numbers indicate that we have hit the law of diminishing returns on sending out additional ballots. I believe the end results of this election will constitute a fair, honest and successful effort to empanel all three NXT funding committees.
BOTTOM LINE: At this time 209 of the 385 distributed ballot access codes have been used to vote. There are 176 unutilized and 115 undistributed ballot access codes still available.
Quote
if I have interpreted the information right, If you issue an asset you have no association with the gateway; anyone who trades with you does so strictly on a personal trust basis. Gateway assets are not self issued, but are actually backed by real assets that are held in a special account to guarantee there security.
Thanks.But still not sure about it
yes,lets to show our warm and support.
Done. BTC38 is asking about which coin to add next on their exchange. Please take a few minutes to let them know about Nxt:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5525645
@2Kool4Skewl,https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5525645
Could you help to add this vote on the first page of this thread for more pp to vote for?
TKS.
+1. Please add it to the first page.
Added.
Some question about AE:
NO.1
When i issue a new asset,example.NEM,quantity：10000,this spend me 1000nxt,and then there are 10000NEM in my account,i can start exchange.
But,i don't get the real 10000NEM,who can ensure i'm not a cheater?
When some others make a sell/buy order ,like NEM/NXT,they also don't get the real NEM,if someone buy it,who will send him the real NEM?
Who can give me a explanation？
Thanks a lot
NO.2
When i issue a new asset,i'm became the "gateway" of this asset?
NO.1
When i issue a new asset,example.NEM,quantity：10000,this spend me 1000nxt,and then there are 10000NEM in my account,i can start exchange.
But,i don't get the real 10000NEM,who can ensure i'm not a cheater?
When some others make a sell/buy order ,like NEM/NXT,they also don't get the real NEM,if someone buy it,who will send him the real NEM?
Who can give me a explanation？
Thanks a lot
NO.2
When i issue a new asset,i'm became the "gateway" of this asset?
if I have interpreted the information right, If you issue an asset you have no association with the gateway; anyone who trades with you does so strictly on a personal trust basis. Gateway assets are not self issued, but are actually backed by real assets that are held in a special account to guarantee there security.
Some question about AE:
NO.1
When i issue a new asset,example.NEM,quantity：10000,this spend me 1000nxt,and then there are 10000NEM in my account,i can start exchange.
But,i don't get the real 10000NEM,who can ensure i'm not a cheater?
When some others make a sell/buy order ,like NEM/NXT,they also don't get the real NEM,if someone buy it,who will send him the real NEM?
Who can give me a explanation？
Thanks a lot
NO.2
When i issue a new asset,i'm became the "gateway" of this asset?
NO.1
When i issue a new asset,example.NEM,quantity：10000,this spend me 1000nxt,and then there are 10000NEM in my account,i can start exchange.
But,i don't get the real 10000NEM,who can ensure i'm not a cheater?
When some others make a sell/buy order ,like NEM/NXT,they also don't get the real NEM,if someone buy it,who will send him the real NEM?
Who can give me a explanation？
Thanks a lot
NO.2
When i issue a new asset,i'm became the "gateway" of this asset?
jean-luc
If you can get asset trades denominated in other assets implemented, then NXT AE would be able to dominate all other centralized exchanges. Basically all cryptos supported by the gateway could be directly traded against any other crypto. It would be fantastic!
After trading, people could withdraw directly to their wallet whatever crypto they have assets for
I think this is a much bigger change than assets supporting fractions, but maybe its a conditional handling in Order.java for all the trades of an asset denominated in another asset. Even if BTC is the only other asset something can be denominated in, that would get us 90% of the benefit, but I think the way the code is structured, it would be almost the same work to allow arbitrary denominations based in other assets.
James
If you can get asset trades denominated in other assets implemented, then NXT AE would be able to dominate all other centralized exchanges. Basically all cryptos supported by the gateway could be directly traded against any other crypto. It would be fantastic!
After trading, people could withdraw directly to their wallet whatever crypto they have assets for
I think this is a much bigger change than assets supporting fractions, but maybe its a conditional handling in Order.java for all the trades of an asset denominated in another asset. Even if BTC is the only other asset something can be denominated in, that would get us 90% of the benefit, but I think the way the code is structured, it would be almost the same work to allow arbitrary denominations based in other assets.
James
I'm a little unclear on this, so apologies if my understanding is flawed.
Could this be done atomically with chained transactions?
For example:
BTC -> NXT && NXT -> LTC
BTC -> NXT && NXT -> DOGE
etc...
Everything would be converted to NXT as intermediate hold, then immediately used to purchase the new asset. If chained transactions can apply with atomicity, then goal is achieved.
Direct trading gives us the best advantage, well actually, it makes us the same as the exchanges as far as trading pairs
I think you could still do this with explicit trading pairs of BTC->LTC and BTC->DOGE, etc, and get a single spread. The conversion to NXT would be behind the scenes, and denomination in NXT would become wholly unimportant for that trading pair (ie: the explicit trading pairs in/out of NXT would be completely unrelated). Work would be in client, and not in core.
Some small transaction fee would need to be accounted for in NXT and siphoned as a trading fee.
(note: this assumes the premise that chained transactions are atomic).
Here's how I would approach it:
Step 1) allow trading Nxt against the top ten most popular coins directly to and from those coins
Step 2) Enable trading one coin for another using the BTC -> NXT && NXT -> LTC approach as a starting point to quickly allow that kind of trading between any different crypto pairs.
Step 3) Start allowing the trading of coins against other coins, again starting with the most popular, continue slowly adding more coins directly tradeable against Nxt as well.
Step 4) Do something along the lines of automatic arbitrage, let's say I want to trade Litecoin for Dogecoin, you look at all the other coin pairs that are being traded and find that the gap is smaller if you trade them through Bitcoin, so list that as a potential 3 way trade. Nobody has to know that when that order completed, they didn't actually send Litecoin to someone in exchange for Dogecoin but actually had 3 trades execute simultaneously. Potentially you could expand this to to 4 or 5 or 6 way trades, though at some point it just doesn't become worth it. In this way, you actually close that gap between all the various cryptos.
Also, every time you trade a coin pair, keep in mind you'll have to feed the forgers, so the more people use us to trade coins in general, the more value Nxt becomes as forgers earn more of them.
I'd do this type of arbitrage on computers that are open to forge but not actively processing transactions but more or less sitting around idling.. eventually they'll also be doing decentralized computing for us.
Could the idea of a wallet client that could handle several different coins be of value or help to fill a similar purpose to what you are talking about? An asset wallet? Or am I misunderstanding your meaning?
Hey guys! I'm allwelder's friend.
If you want the price of NXT pumping up,
please go to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-lockedill-start-a-new-post-soon-501963 to vote NXT!!!
Www.btc38.com is the biggest Altcoins exchange in China.
It will be a great news to NXT if the site launch NXT!!!
Please!!!
If you want the price of NXT pumping up,
please go to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-lockedill-start-a-new-post-soon-501963 to vote NXT!!!
Www.btc38.com is the biggest Altcoins exchange in China.
It will be a great news to NXT if the site launch NXT!!!
Please!!!
done
Jump to: