NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 693.

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 25, 2014, 02:15:27 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 25, 2014, 12:58:16 AM

NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.

Let's say 1000 hallmarked nodes are on the network. A block is found that has 10 NXT transaction fee. The forging account gets 5 NXT. The other 5 NXT gets divided up and distributed to the 1000 accounts running on hallmarked nodes. Each node's hallmarked account would get 5/1000 = 0.005 NXT. The 0.005 NXT would not be broadcast as a transaction, but simply credited to the account.

This would allow smaller accounts to provide a service for NXT, running a node, and get rewarded consistently at the same time.

I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.

Assuming the NXT network is at 10% utilization, each block will have 25.6 NXT transaction fees. ( 256 tx per block * 1 NXT tx fee * 10% = 25.6 NXT) Half of this, 12.8 NXT, gets rewarded to the hallmarked nodes' accounts supporting the network. At one block per minute, 18432 NXT will be distributed to all hallmarked node accounts per day assuming 10% network utilization. If there are 1000 hallmarked nodes on the network, each node will earn 18.432 NXT per day and 6727.68 NXT per year.

As more transactions are issued on the network, more hallmarked nodes will come on-line to partake in earning the node reward.

How am I supposed to hallmark my smartphones?

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 25, 2014, 03:03:05 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 25, 2014, 12:58:16 AM

I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.

I think this discussion needs to be way more technical and detailed than just a "penalizing is bad, doesn't sound good" or something like that.

The network will grow faster if you reward people instead of penalizing them.

I don't see a need for penalizing people. You can reward both forgers and node operators simultaneously.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: ChuckOne on February 25, 2014, 02:58:17 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 25, 2014, 12:58:16 AM

NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.

Quote

How do you control that process? Who's gonna decide which hallmark?

It is still not clear to me. It sounds easy but it is not in terms of implementation.

The more I think of it, the more I am certain we have the several different programs/incentives/fees etc. to support nodes. I think this variety will keep the number of nodes up.

I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.

Why not?

Every hallmarked node gets a portion of the 50% of block transaction fees.

People should not be penalized from not forging because people don't forge for many reasons. A lot of the larger accounts right now are not forging to give the smaller accounts a chance to forge. Some people might want to store NXT in an inactive account for future use. If some has computer issues and can't run their computer, they should not be penalized for that.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 25, 2014, 12:58:16 AM

I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.

I think this discussion needs to be way more technical and detailed than just a "penalizing is bad, doesn't sound good" or something like that.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 25, 2014, 02:54:58 AM

I think we need an incentive to forge right now. And that's gonna happen with fees. They will decline in time and eventually disappear completely for a fully functional Skynxt, I mean, Nxt network.

Now about spam prevention:
What about the idea of combining hash cash and fees?

According to Come-from-Beyond, BCNext doesn't want to use hashcash because of the environmental factors. I agree with him.

Jean-Luc

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 24, 2014, 09:46:02 PM

OK, now that we can use POST instead of GET on 0.8.1e, can someone tell me whats wrong here?

Code:

$ curl -sk --data "requestType=getBalance&account=6666386410" https://localhost:7876

Error 405

HTTP ERROR: 405

Problem accessing /. Reason:

    HTTP method POST is not supported by this URL

Powered by Jetty://

$

Should be https://localhost:7876/nxt . It is the "nxt" that maps the url to the API servlet which accepts both POST and GET, the top level url is served by the jetty default resource handler for static files which does not support POST.

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 25, 2014, 12:58:16 AM

NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.

Quote

How do you control that process? Who's gonna decide which hallmark?

It is still not clear to me. It sounds easy but it is not in terms of implementation.

The more I think of it, the more I am certain we have the several different programs/incentives/fees etc. to support nodes. I think this variety will keep the number of nodes up.

I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.

Why not?

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

I think we need an incentive to forge right now. And that's gonna happen with fees. They will decline in time and eventually disappear completely for a fully functional Skynxt, I mean, Nxt network.

Now about spam prevention:
What about the idea of combining hash cash and fees?

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: jl777 on February 25, 2014, 02:45:01 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on February 24, 2014, 10:56:44 PM

Quote from: msin on February 24, 2014, 06:22:07 PM

Interesting, I could see many coins being built with this model in mind, a coin that provides a service, paid for in Nxt, and mined to keep the network strong.

Please note that just "running a node" is not the same as "forging" in terms of "protecting the network".

Although it can help with things like DDoS and for those that are blocked from accessing IP addresses the most important work is that done by "forging nodes" as only those nodes are "confirming transactions".

I am confused again. I thought that all you had to do to forge was to have your account unlocked. Also, in order to make API calls that you have to have your account unlocked. If this is not the case, I will just make it so that forging is enabled by default when you are "mining" NXTcoins.

Wouldnt that be "protecting the network"?

James

If you have your node running, but don't have any NXT, you are not securing the blockchain.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: lophie on February 24, 2014, 10:57:08 PM

Quote from: TwinWinNerD on February 24, 2014, 08:04:42 PM

I just wanted to ask if it would be possible to introduce a dynamic fee scheme? I heard today that bitcoin will implement this in the future.

Basically that means, that if there are few transactions the fee drops, if the number goes up, so does the fee.

if I understand nxt correctly,, this is not going to happen in nxt. See it was built on a very different idea. the fees in my opinion should be 0.01 forever.

- lophie

Tell me please why did you come to such a conclusion?

redsn0w

legendary

Activity: 1778

Merit: 1043

#Free market

Quote from: fmiboy on February 25, 2014, 01:47:45 AM

please send some testNxt: 17102884928221738157

thanks

Quote from: swartzfeger on February 25, 2014, 02:00:15 AM

I go on a road trip for a day and looks like I missed a giveaway.

Looks like I also missed a lot of talk about PoS, penalizing accounts, proof-of-commitment... a *lot* to digest.

Wesley -- it appears that the Mac client still doesn't play nice with the changes made in 0.8.x? I accidentally auto-updated to 0.8.e, and now I've got to redownload and downgrade to 0.7.5. Do you have a timeframe for 0.8.x compatibility?

testNXT, please?

11369639962571180006

I've sent you 5K TestNxt Wink

. Enjoy it

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote

But maybe the REAL key here to prevent forging centralization in the first place is to make forging as an end UNPROFITABLE.

You hit the nail straight on the head with this one, opticalcarrier.

That need some time. Services will be built on top of NXT. The providers and stakeholders of these very services need to be very very sure that NXT is and stay secure and stable.

Until we have at least 10,000 service nodes, we need forging nodes. And even then, reducing the forging-only nodes must be done very slowly and carefully not to scare service providers away.

It's like a chicken-and-egg problem. No nodes => no security => no services => no nodes.

Forging-only nodes solve that in the beginning.

jl777

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1134

Quote from: CIYAM on February 24, 2014, 10:56:44 PM

Quote from: msin on February 24, 2014, 06:22:07 PM

Interesting, I could see many coins being built with this model in mind, a coin that provides a service, paid for in Nxt, and mined to keep the network strong.

Please note that just "running a node" is not the same as "forging" in terms of "protecting the network".

Although it can help with things like DDoS and for those that are blocked from accessing IP addresses the most important work is that done by "forging nodes" as only those nodes are "confirming transactions".

I am confused again. I thought that all you had to do to forge was to have your account unlocked. Also, in order to make API calls that you have to have your account unlocked. If this is not the case, I will just make it so that forging is enabled by default when you are "mining" NXTcoins.

Wouldnt that be "protecting the network"?

James

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: TwinWinNerD on February 24, 2014, 08:04:42 PM

I just wanted to ask if it would be possible to introduce a dynamic fee scheme? I heard today that bitcoin will implement this in the future.

Basically that means, that if there are few transactions the fee drops, if the number goes up, so does the fee.

What's the purpose?

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: morphers on February 24, 2014, 07:05:04 PM

I don't know much about programming these days, but I think this could be a killer app if implemented correctly. The cryptocurrency that it gets attached to could be the de facto for content rights management and payment. This would seriously enhance the worth of the cc (cryptocurrency) that it is tied to by many factors IMHO.

The community had a similar idea, too. NXTopia it's called where story writers get royalties/incentives for good stories.

Key difference is: some part of that story is heavily tied to NXTopia itself. That is, it is playable and only usable within NXT(opia).

For real-world assets like pictures/movies etc., it is different. NXT would have the same effect as regular DRM. It can be broken easily.

This does not necessarily mean it's bad idea. I recommend go for it but keep in mind that people at most want to support the creative authors if at all but never want to pay to 'performing right society' aka NXT-DRM. Another thing: once somebody bought a picture from an author via NXT, there is no way back. The picture can be redistributed at will buy the buyer.

So, I would rather like to see a incentive and rewarding system for artists and authors.

wesleyh

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: igmaca on February 24, 2014, 06:22:49 PM

Quote from: wesleyh on February 24, 2014, 06:10:46 PM

Quote from: igmaca on February 24, 2014, 06:08:40 PM

Quote from: wesleyh on February 24, 2014, 05:58:02 PM

Quote from: igmaca on February 24, 2014, 05:55:12 PM

Quote from: wesleyh on February 24, 2014, 03:12:15 PM

Hey guys,

To those that have tried my web client http://nxtra.org/nxt-client ; A beta version is now available for download here:

http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/dev.zip

Unzip, move the dev folder to nxt/html/tools/dev

Then go to http://localhost:7876/dev

This is assuming you have 0.8.1e installed (it will not work correctly on older versions!) - do not try

I suggest you connect to TestNet first though; in the upper left corner you can switch between TestNet and localhost. Try everything out in TestNet first, when you are comfortable you can connect locally. There may still be errors in the code, it's a beta after all.

Not everything is done yet, and Internet Explorer is completely untested. I suggest you use either chrome/firefox or safari for now.

Also need to do some more interactive updating after submission of forms, etc.

if you want, you can send me a message there via the alias wesleynxt (just open the send message dialog and type wesleynxt in the account field). Messages are not yet encrypted.

Let me know what you think.

I have the active 0.8.1.e client and I can not connect through the client file :/ / / C :/ nxt / html / tools / dev / dev / index.html #

You should put it at tools/dev not tools/dev/dev (but it shouldn't matter).

You are acessing it through http://localhost:7876/dev/ right? Do not double click on index.html as it will open via file:// which does not work.

Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7876.

Have you just clicked the link here:

http://localhost:7876/dev/

That should work, otherwise your java may not be running. Check if http://localhost:7875 works

Anyway, I'm off, will answer questions later.

Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7875
java is working because nrs client 8.0.1e is working well

How do you know 8.0.1e is working if you can't access http://localhost:7875 ?

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 25, 2014, 12:58:16 AM

NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.

Let's say 1000 hallmarked nodes are on the network. A block is found that has 10 NXT transaction fee. The forging account gets 5 NXT. The other 5 NXT gets divided up and distributed to the 1000 accounts running on hallmarked nodes. Each node's hallmarked account would get 5/1000 = 0.005 NXT. The 0.005 NXT would not be broadcast as a transaction, but simply credited to the account.

This would allow smaller accounts to provide a service for NXT, running a node, and get rewarded consistently at the same time.

I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.

Assuming the NXT network is at 10% utilization, each block will have 25.6 NXT transaction fees. ( 256 tx per block * 1 NXT tx fee * 10% = 25.6 NXT) Half of this, 12.8 NXT, gets rewarded to the hallmarked nodes' accounts supporting the network. At one block per minute, 18432 NXT will be distributed to all hallmarked node accounts per day assuming 10% network utilization. If there are 1000 hallmarked nodes on the network, each node will earn 18.432 NXT per day and 6727.68 NXT per year.

As more transactions are issued on the network, more hallmarked nodes will come on-line to partake in earning the node reward.

swartzfeger

full member

Activity: 350

Merit: 100

I go on a road trip for a day and looks like I missed a giveaway.

Looks like I also missed a lot of talk about PoS, penalizing accounts, proof-of-commitment... a *lot* to digest.

Wesley -- it appears that the Mac client still doesn't play nice with the changes made in 0.8.x? I accidentally auto-updated to 0.8.e, and now I've got to redownload and downgrade to 0.7.5. Do you have a timeframe for 0.8.x compatibility?

testNXT, please?

11369639962571180006

abctc

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1038

Quote from: fmiboy on February 25, 2014, 01:47:45 AM

please send some testNxt: 17102884928221738157

- 5k testNXT sent.

fmiboy

full member

Activity: 189

Merit: 100

please send some testNxt: 17102884928221738157

thanks

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 693. (Read 2761650 times)

HTTP ERROR: 405