+1
Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 728. (Read 2761645 times)
I am thinking about setting up a public VPS node to offer a(nother) node for my users of my NXT client.
Which hoster should I use, what are the server specs. I would need to run it smoothly and is there still the danger of hitting hoster bandwith limits with the recent version of NRS?
Thanks!
Marcus
Which hoster should I use, what are the server specs. I would need to run it smoothly and is there still the danger of hitting hoster bandwith limits with the recent version of NRS?
Thanks!
Marcus
All this talk about forging and running nodes and this and that and unfair and that.....
And here I am running some nodes just to strengthen the network.
I do it because if the network is successful, then we'll all be succesful. Although if I could forge more it would be a plus.
And here I am running some nodes just to strengthen the network.
I do it because if the network is successful, then we'll all be succesful. Although if I could forge more it would be a plus.
Don't change the forging. Any kind of balancing effort will bring excessive complexity and a whole lot of issues. No matter what you do it'll always be the people with more resources to forge more. Flooding the already limited IP-space with forging-zombies is a bad, bad idea.
Agree. And btw, I can create millions IPv6 addresses at will.
You cannot prevent the rich from forging more than the poor without major centralization of the entire forging system. Many people have proposed "fair bitcoin mining" too but you just can't do that in a decentralized system. Period.
Agreed. The PoS forging system should not be changed in my opinion. Once account control is implemented, people will be able to lease their forging power. The smaller account holders can then combine their forging power and get more consistent payouts. Their main complaint is that it take them too long to forge a block. I believe later when transactions pick up and Nxt is worth more it will be economically advantageous to forge, even with low tx fees.
What happened with Vircurex? Price drops a lot.
Forging..
Minor (and possibly irrelevant point) there is small a proof-of-commitment - you need to have your NXT in your account for 1440 blocks before it can forge - this is a relatively short time and effectiveness goes from 0% to 100% i.e. and its not weighted.
This is not about numbers of nodes, I have NXT, do I want to set up a 24x7 computer forging - not really.
Would i let someone else use the forging capability of my stake to increase their forging - yes
Would I expect to share the forging outcome with them - yes
Do I want a network which will reliably and quickly process any transactions I perform - yes
I'n the absence of the ability to do this without transferring NXT i've deposited a chunk in Nxtio as I want to see I someone can be in the business of running a node professionally.
If these small businesses exist we get professionally run nodes, with a good amount of stake to drive the forging and people can, hopefully in the future lease their forging power to these nodes (rather than trusting them with the NXT itself).
The RasPI idea is nice but to be honest I wonder if small scale PoS forging will die out quicker than PoW mining is being killed by the need to have sizeable networks and servers - for different reasons.
In the future i would expect a NXT node to need to meet a guaranteed service level to complete the forge of the block to maintain transaction speeds or be blacklisted.
There is and has to be a business component to the solution here is not all about maths if you want widespread adoption we need a decentralised but resilient and trustworthy network, this means we need to rely on nodes run by people who know what they are doing.
No matter how we cut it, people who set up a solar powered RasPI with 1000 nxt on it are going to be disappointed.
Minor (and possibly irrelevant point) there is small a proof-of-commitment - you need to have your NXT in your account for 1440 blocks before it can forge - this is a relatively short time and effectiveness goes from 0% to 100% i.e. and its not weighted.
This is not about numbers of nodes, I have NXT, do I want to set up a 24x7 computer forging - not really.
Would i let someone else use the forging capability of my stake to increase their forging - yes
Would I expect to share the forging outcome with them - yes
Do I want a network which will reliably and quickly process any transactions I perform - yes
I'n the absence of the ability to do this without transferring NXT i've deposited a chunk in Nxtio as I want to see I someone can be in the business of running a node professionally.
If these small businesses exist we get professionally run nodes, with a good amount of stake to drive the forging and people can, hopefully in the future lease their forging power to these nodes (rather than trusting them with the NXT itself).
The RasPI idea is nice but to be honest I wonder if small scale PoS forging will die out quicker than PoW mining is being killed by the need to have sizeable networks and servers - for different reasons.
In the future i would expect a NXT node to need to meet a guaranteed service level to complete the forge of the block to maintain transaction speeds or be blacklisted.
There is and has to be a business component to the solution here is not all about maths if you want widespread adoption we need a decentralised but resilient and trustworthy network, this means we need to rely on nodes run by people who know what they are doing.
No matter how we cut it, people who set up a solar powered RasPI with 1000 nxt on it are going to be disappointed.
I dont see how this would increase forging with smaller account. unless I am missing something.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
The idea is simply to make it more likely that even a forging account with 1 NXT has a pretty good chance.
This is important to accomplish. I am just not sure putting limits on forging accounts is the answer.
what about more blocks per minute?
Or perhaps a timer, if node has forged a block it must wait for N blocks before it can forge another.
if leasing power forged for pools at most can only have 100000 nxt we would have several things:
pool forge every 2 3 days that is reasonable
would have 1000000000/100000 = 10 000 nodes to ensure network
pool forge every 2 3 days that is reasonable
would have 1000000000/100000 = 10 000 nodes to ensure network
Yup - this seems like a good start.
Next Forge Problem
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhi9360ke6mtbqs/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_1.jpg
Equality Forge Solution
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9emz21xz8qfo1t3/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_2.jpg
Equity Forge solution
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u7i9vggpgb79ij3/Documento3_P%C3%A1gina_3.jpg
I just don't get it. Sure, these pictures have an emotional appeal, because now all the cute kids can see over the fence. So what? Math is math.
You've got people who come to NXT with a mining mentality. Eventually they realize that Proof of Stake means they can't get a super-fast machine that gives them an advantage over everybody else and put a whole bunch of newly minted coins in their pocket. They are understandably disappointed. So they turn from a mining rig to the other tool of the mining trade, a pool. So now they're going to pool their NXT with others to be in a group that generates blocks more often than they could alone.
My big question: how do they get more money from a pool than they would get forging on their own?
By the time you do all the division of fees back out to give the fair share to all of the pool members, isn't it the exact same return on investment they would get forging on their own and adding blocks less often?
THERE ARE NO NEW NXT COINS BEING CREATED FROM NOTHING, AS BITCOIN DOES.
Forging is just a recycle of existing coins. So aren't pools just another level of "shell" in a "shell game"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game
Leasing forged fees not leasing forged power
NXT EQUITY forging
Nxt EQUITY FORGING Will Leave without arguments people maintaining that in nxt ecosystem "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"
Nxt EQUITY FORGING Will Leave without arguments people maintaining that POS is not so sure than POW if eventually the number of nodes forging is concentrated in a few pools.
a) funds must stay in the Bob account own
b ) forging power should remain in the node where this Bob.
c) Bob fees of forging of the account Bob should go to the "transparent" pool and the pool manager split the fees forging in proportion to the amount of funds from the accounts that were at that time in the pool. (if Bob wants to lease the forged fees to a pool)
I do not know if this is technically very difficult to implement but it is clear that if not resolved little by little will create pools and concentrating on a few network nodes and so understand a network more vulnerable to attack .
I think the pool is very good solution for the small investor gives "equity to the system not equality to the system " but forging power should remain in the node where this account with the funds are for the sake of the security of the network.
Perhaps 100000 nxt coins maximum amount for pool will be a initial good solution
if leasing forged power for pools at most can only have 100000 nxt we would have several things:
pool forge every 2 3 days that is reasonable
would have 1000000000/100000 = 10 000 nodes to ensure network
We must not lose sight of the time factor.
The odds change if you forges every 2 3 days that if you forges every 1,000 days
Forging every 2 3 days increase the amount of nxt before and therefore increase their chances of forging
Nxt is not about mining mentality.
+1.What happened to forging, not mining? I thought we were over it by now.
My opinion is that although to some it *seems* that it is not fair, it only means it is not *get rich quick as some believed*.
Why would we want to rollback with something like that?
+2. But NXT is going to have to struggle with slower growth rate and lower popularity because of this.
Fully agree!
I dont see how this would increase forging with smaller account. unless I am missing something.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
The idea is simply to make it more likely that even a forging account with 1 NXT has a pretty good chance.
Ok, good for her. Now...she made enough where she can pay for her node forge rig and the electricity to run it?
No matter what system decides decide who forges, at one minute per block only 1440 people are going to forge a block in a day. NXT currently has over 5000 users, at least. A perfectly fair "stake of membership" plan for the current NXT membership means they only get to forge a block every four days, and that time gets longer the more people join.
I say our female forger should man up to just what a 100% Proof of Stake "coin" really means, and get with the program of figuring out what is required to make it work.
Step one is to rid one's self of the mining "get-rich-quick" mentality, and the socialist "it needs to be more fair" mentality.
Step two is get over to an exchange and BUY SOME STAKE.
What happened with Vircurex? Price drops a lot.
Edit: @Ciyam, i'm not technical at all, do you think that implementing it would be easy for the devs, and for the rest of the network?
It is just software so *changing the rules* will only be an upgrade (optional of course).
A social credit system allows users to establish credit lines between each other for a certain asset. Debt can be transfered down a chain of credit lines.
...
LETSystems are interest free local credit systems. Each local credit network has a central bookkeeper who establishes new credit lines and keeps track of users' balances. When a new member joins, they establish a credit line to the bookkeeper and the bookkeeper grants them a credit line. The credit line the bookkeeper establishes with them is the amount of credit they have with the community. This is the amount the new member is allowed to owe the other members of the network.
So there is a banker named bookkeeper. You create debt. It's interest free, but there is an asset bound to the dept. So what happens if you don't pay the debt? I suppose your asset is gone. Wasn't the idea of bitcoin to stop with giving debt to people who don't have money?...
LETSystems are interest free local credit systems. Each local credit network has a central bookkeeper who establishes new credit lines and keeps track of users' balances. When a new member joins, they establish a credit line to the bookkeeper and the bookkeeper grants them a credit line. The credit line the bookkeeper establishes with them is the amount of credit they have with the community. This is the amount the new member is allowed to owe the other members of the network.
Quote
For example, Bob, Charlie and Alice are members of the local LETSystem. Bob needs to go on a job interview, but he can't because he has to watch his children. Bob is broke, but he needs a babysitter. Bob knows Alice babysits and is part of his LETSystem. Alice babysits for Bob and he pays her $10 credit. Alice now has a +$10 community credit and Bob now has a -$10 community credit. Charlie's car is broken and he doesn't have any money to repair it. Bob repairs Charlie's car for $40. Bob now has a community credit of +$30 and Charlie now owes the community $40. Bob gets paid even though Charlie didn't have the money.
This only seems useful for those who have zero amount of money. If in your example Bob would have had 10 dollar, no special sustem with debt and trust would be needed. If Bob has children, but no 10 dollar, something else is wrong in his life where free credit is not the solution.Sorry for being critical, but I'm not really convinced this system improves the situation of poor people.
There's a report just out http://www.franceculture.fr/emission-le-magazine-de-la-redaction-monnaie-locale-monnaie-a-taille-humaine-2014-02-21 regarding two 'local money' projects (based on LETS principles): one in the Basque country and one about to be launched in Montreuil (Northern France). A key aspect of the Basque Country local money is that it is seen as helping to strengthen the Basque culture (including its language).
Seems to me that NXT could play a similar role for the many regions around the world which want to retain/strengthen their identity/culture and also overcome a problem with all local money schemes, one which can hinder their widespread adoption in the particular region - they aren't convertible (either easily or at all) into the country's main fiat currency.
+2. But NXT is going to have to struggle with slower growth rate and lower popularity because of this.
Yes, i hear you. Nxt made it that far though, with "high" fees, "unfair" distribution and "low" forging probability.
To me those features are more like an anti-inflation measure, than "unfair" anything.
Edit: @Ciyam, i'm not technical at all, do you think that implementing it would be easy for the devs, and for the rest of the network?
I dont see how this would increase forging with smaller account. unless I am missing something.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
The idea is simply to make it more likely that even a forging account with 1 NXT has a pretty good chance.
CfB thought I might want to make my suggestion for a possible different future of TF clearer.
What I am advocating would mean that the % chance to forge would effectively be the number of "forging accounts + IP addreses" you have (for most average people that is going to be 1).
So rather than having to get 100K or more NXT to forge you would only need to purchase 1 "forging account" (say 1 NXT?) to forge.
I hope that explains it better (unfortunately sometimes I just *assume* people understand my ideas).
So basically everyone could forge even if they only have 1 NXT??What I am advocating would mean that the % chance to forge would effectively be the number of "forging accounts + IP addreses" you have (for most average people that is going to be 1).
So rather than having to get 100K or more NXT to forge you would only need to purchase 1 "forging account" (say 1 NXT?) to forge.
I hope that explains it better (unfortunately sometimes I just *assume* people understand my ideas).
That would be really something for a fairer system- if we make distribution fairer all clones (and not only) are dead...
What if many big stakeholders do many smaller accounts?
I dont see how this would increase forging with smaller account. unless I am missing something.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
Nxt is not about mining mentality.
+1.What happened to forging, not mining? I thought we were over it by now.
My opinion is that although to some it *seems* that it is not fair, it only means it is not *get rich quick as some believed*.
Why would we want to rollback with something like that?
+2. But NXT is going to have to struggle with slower growth rate and lower popularity because of this.
Nxt is not about mining mentality.
+1.
What happened to forging, not mining? I thought we were over it by now.
My opinion is that although to some it *seems* that it is not fair, it only means it is not *get rich quick as some believed*.
Why would we want to rollback with something like that?
Its like the CO2 discussion all over again.
I guess i missed the giveaway.... 
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