NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 875.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: ChuckOne on February 14, 2014, 01:50:01 PM

Shouldn't that be client issue? Just sending n transactions instead of 1; n = number of asset holders.

That would cost you n NXT at the moment.

That is a little expensive don't you think (and even if the fee was reduced it will still be very wasteful if you couldn't "compress" the tx to 1 amount and n accounts)?

xibeijan

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1001

I've heard that NXT is working on a zerocoin implementation.

If so, how do you plan to address these limitations?

Quote

Zerocoin has a number of serious limitations:
- It uses cutting-edge cryptography which may turn out to be insecure, and which is understood by relatively few people (compared to ECDSA, for example).
- It produces large (20kbyte) signatures that would bloat the blockchain (or create risk if stuffed in external storage).
- It requires a trusted party to initiate its accumulator. If that party cheats, they can steal coin. (Perhaps fixable with more cutting-edge crypto.)
- Validation is very slow (can process about 2tx per second on a fast CPU), which is a major barrier to deployment in Bitcoin as each full node must validate every transaction.
- The large transactions and slow validation also means costly transactions, which will reduce the anonymity set size and potentially make ZC usage unavailable to random members of the public who are merely casually concerned about their privacy.
- Uses an accumulator which grows forever and has no pruning. In practice this means we'd need to switch accumulators periodically to reduce the working set size, reducing the anonymity set size. And potentially creating big UTXO bloat problems if the horizon on an accumulator isn't set in advance.

Randy pNut

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: igmaca on February 14, 2014, 11:14:13 AM

Does anyone know about poloni ex?

Are they new?

Is it a initiative of the community nxt?

What country are they located?

No idea about the country,

but the admin is someone nice, i have no issue at all using the service.

It's a pretty unknown platform but with potential to going very well.
they also have a giveaway service, if you send him some nxt (or any other) asking to put them into the giveaway: i can confirm he do.

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: CIYAM on February 14, 2014, 01:39:26 PM

Quote from: ChuckOne on February 14, 2014, 01:10:50 PM

What's your hope in having such feature?

It actually would "kill" the first "use case" for the Nxt Scripting system (which was to "pay dividends to asset holders). Grin

Shouldn't that be client issue? Just sending n transactions instead of 1; n = number of asset holders.

Eadeqa

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:23:05 PM

It turns out the transition to fractional amounts, which is required for reducing the minimum fee, will not be that simple. It would require adding a new transaction type, because the current ordinary payment transaction stores amounts and fees with 1 NXT precision, not multiplied by 100 as in the account balance. So it will take longer to implement and test. The positive side is that while doing that we can make the fractional part allow amounts much lower than 0.01, so we will achieve much higher divisibility.

We don't really need too much divisibility. Perhaps 1.00000 at max?

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: ChuckOne on February 14, 2014, 01:10:50 PM

What's your hope in having such feature?

It actually would "kill" the first "use case" for the Nxt Scripting system (which was to "pay dividends to asset holders). Grin

Jean-Luc

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ChuckOne on February 14, 2014, 01:35:16 PM

Code:

[2014-02-14 18:23:55.255] Database is at level 13
[2014-02-14 18:23:55.267] DEBUG: Will apply sql:
ALTER TABLE block DROP COLUMN IF EXISTS index
[2014-02-14 18:26:26.984] DEBUG: Will apply sql:
ALTER TABLE transaction DROP COLUMN IF EXISTS index
[2014-02-14 18:33:32.807] Updated database is at level 15

Didn't the additional indexes help?

Read the above SQL once again more carefully

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:09:39 PM

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Release 0.7.5

http://download.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-client-0.7.5.zip

sha256: 66adc8379a8f6e3fba7797fbc94b8b62f3e486ea5b6e9877f064c4b0d1f2584d

@JL

Code:

[2014-02-14 18:23:55.255] Database is at level 13
[2014-02-14 18:23:55.267] DEBUG: Will apply sql:
ALTER TABLE block DROP COLUMN IF EXISTS index
[2014-02-14 18:26:26.984] DEBUG: Will apply sql:
ALTER TABLE transaction DROP COLUMN IF EXISTS index
[2014-02-14 18:33:32.807] Updated database is at level 15

Didn't the additional indexes help?

develCuy

sr. member

Activity: 470

Merit: 350

Changed my NXT address to 12364258960487881341 in case you still want to donate some. Thanks!

kknk808

newbie

Activity: 40

Merit: 0

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 14, 2014, 01:03:32 PM

Quote from: kknk808 on February 14, 2014, 12:28:28 PM

Quote from: Damelon on February 14, 2014, 11:47:40 AM

By the way: last chance to get your money out of Nxtchg today: https://nxtchg.com/index.php

Seems like it has been sold.

I believe optical and brooklynbtc bought it. I think Tongue

how on earth did you get that Im involved in a purchage of nxtchg? cause Ive never said anything of the sort, and Ive not seen anyone around here mentioning it either.

Sorry thought I heard earlier. It was mentioned. Just woke up so was a little mehhh...it was msin... >,>

Can look at brooklynbtc earlier posts

I apologize for any dishonor :/

Edit: found the quote from earlier

Quote from: msin on February 13, 2014, 12:33:40 AM

Quote from: brooklynbtc on February 12, 2014, 10:46:14 PM

Quote from: Damelon on February 12, 2014, 04:57:58 PM

By the way: Nxtchg's site is for sale: https://nxtchg.com/sale.php

Someone might want to take it over.

Anyone want to front me the 10btc for it? I'll run it at 1% fee and split it with you until you have your investment doubled.

Deal?

Sure. PM me and I'll get on it tomorrow, going to bed now.

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: CIYAM on February 14, 2014, 12:45:03 PM

Good to know - btw - if you are going to have to "upgrade" the tx format are you also considering adding "pay to many" txs (and for even better compression also "pay the same amount to many" which could be useful for things like sending "dividends")?

What's your hope in having such feature?

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:38:10 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on February 14, 2014, 12:27:18 PM

all the arithmetic will be using integers I hope

Yes of course.

Glad to hear.

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: kknk808 on February 14, 2014, 12:28:28 PM

Quote from: Damelon on February 14, 2014, 11:47:40 AM

By the way: last chance to get your money out of Nxtchg today: https://nxtchg.com/index.php

Seems like it has been sold.

I believe optical and brooklynbtc bought it. I think Tongue

how on earth did you get that Im involved in a purchage of nxtchg? cause Ive never said anything of the sort, and Ive not seen anyone around here mentioning it either.

gs02xzz

full member

Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Quote from: bitcoinpaul on February 14, 2014, 12:40:36 PM

Quote from: Agent86 on February 14, 2014, 12:37:18 PM

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:23:05 PM

It turns out the transition to fractional amounts, which is required for reducing the minimum fee, will not be that simple. It would require adding a new transaction type, because the current ordinary payment transaction stores amounts and fees with 1 NXT precision, not multiplied by 100 as in the account balance. So it will take longer to implement and test. The positive side is that while doing that we can make the fractional part allow amounts much lower than 0.01, so we will achieve much higher divisibility.

Does anyone think it may be possible to split NXT in the same way that a stock splits when it gets too valuable? i.e. if you have one NXT you now have 100 NXT... everything just gets multiplied and then new transaction fee could be 10 NXT. The reason I suggest this is because decimals are kind of a pain and it really encourages tipping and use when coins are not worth so much. People just feel cheap tipping 1 NXT. I think this is part of the reason DOGE tipping caught on so well. BCNext wanted to avoid using decimals but I think was shortsighted about how much the value of one NXT could end up being. Maybe this is too complicated to do though.

No, but it is like with bitcoins and mBTC.

I think it also can be solved by the "real" coins on top of Nxt. It is like that you don't use Nxt to buy groceries but you use edollars to buy groceries as in today's market you don't use gold to buy groceries but you use dollars to buy groceries.

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Agent86 on February 14, 2014, 12:37:18 PM

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:23:05 PM

It turns out the transition to fractional amounts, which is required for reducing the minimum fee, will not be that simple. It would require adding a new transaction type, because the current ordinary payment transaction stores amounts and fees with 1 NXT precision, not multiplied by 100 as in the account balance. So it will take longer to implement and test. The positive side is that while doing that we can make the fractional part allow amounts much lower than 0.01, so we will achieve much higher divisibility.

Does anyone think it may be possible to split NXT in the same way that a stock splits when it gets too valuable? i.e. if you have one NXT you now have 100 NXT... everything just gets multiplied and then new transaction fee could be 10 NXT. The reason I suggest this is because decimals are kind of a pain and it really encourages tipping and use when coins are not worth so much. People just feel cheap tipping 1 NXT. I think this is part of the reason DOGE tipping caught on so well. BCNext wanted to avoid using decimals but I think was shortsighted about how much the value of one NXT could end up being. Maybe this is too complicated to do though.

I think fractional amounts of NXT that is coming will resolve this. Though I did suggest a split as an AE operation.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:48:51 PM

Not now, this will open another can of worms.

Okay - the Nxt Script stuff is probably going to open a few such nasty cans. Grin

Jean-Luc

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: CIYAM on February 14, 2014, 12:45:03 PM

Good to know - btw - if you are going to have to "upgrade" the tx format are you also considering adding "pay to many" txs (and for even better compression also "pay the same amount to many" which could be useful for things like sending "dividends")?

Not now, this will open another can of worms.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:38:10 PM

Yes of course.

Good to know - btw - if you are going to have to "upgrade" the tx format are you also considering adding "pay to many" txs (and for even better compression also "pay the same amount to many" which could be useful for things like sending "dividends")?

xyzzyx

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 250

I don't really come from outer space.

Quote from: Agent86 on February 14, 2014, 12:37:18 PM

Does anyone think it may be possible to split NXT in the same way that a stock splits when it gets too valuable? i.e. if you have one NXT you now have 100 NXT... everything just gets multiplied and then new transaction fee could be 10 NXT. The reason I suggest this is because decimals are kind of a pain and it really encourages tipping and use when coins are not worth so much. People just feel cheap tipping 1 NXT. I think this is part of the reason DOGE tipping caught on so well. BCNext wanted to avoid using decimals but I think was shortsighted about how much the value of one NXT could end up being. Maybe this is too complicated to do though.

Every time a decimal place of precision is added it can also be viewed as inflating the total NXT supply by an order of magnitude. The difference is really only how it is presented/viewed to the users. So in that way added precision could be viewed as a split.

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Agent86 on February 14, 2014, 12:37:18 PM

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 14, 2014, 12:23:05 PM

It turns out the transition to fractional amounts, which is required for reducing the minimum fee, will not be that simple. It would require adding a new transaction type, because the current ordinary payment transaction stores amounts and fees with 1 NXT precision, not multiplied by 100 as in the account balance. So it will take longer to implement and test. The positive side is that while doing that we can make the fractional part allow amounts much lower than 0.01, so we will achieve much higher divisibility.

Does anyone think it may be possible to split NXT in the same way that a stock splits when it gets too valuable? i.e. if you have one NXT you now have 100 NXT... everything just gets multiplied and then new transaction fee could be 10 NXT. The reason I suggest this is because decimals are kind of a pain and it really encourages tipping and use when coins are not worth so much. People just feel cheap tipping 1 NXT. I think this is part of the reason DOGE tipping caught on so well. BCNext wanted to avoid using decimals but I think was shortsighted about how much the value of one NXT could end up being. Maybe this is too complicated to do though.

No, but it is like with bitcoins and mBTC.

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 875. (Read 2761624 times)