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Topic: Nxt :: NXTcash - progress and discussion - page 3. (Read 12333 times)

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Please define NODEcoin. Is it going to mix together with NXTcash ?

I've seen some message about it like :

Quote
nodecoin has a very good purpose as it will allow all of the non-hallmarked nodes to earn something for being part of the network, even if they wont ever be able to directly forge a block, they will earn nodecoins. Generous donators can then fund a NXT dividend to flow through the nodecoins. Maybe we run forging with a non-profit model. All excess transaction fees after paying for the cost of the hallmarked servers gets distributed to nodecoin owners.

Quote
The goal is to get people forging. If we make it in their financial interest to forge with a consistent generation of NODEcoin, then I think a lot of people will forge rather than not forge. Especially if the NODEcoins end up being worth more than the expected forging income, then the whole "pool" issue is moot.

Quote
I will be creating NODEcoin 2.0, which in addition to rewarding people for forging, will be actively validating all gateway transactions and will generate alerts if it ever detects any funny business. As long as the gateway monitors are happy, all is well. I dont expect more than an occasional yellow alert, when there is a network glitch and a transaction has to be manually resent. With the malleability issue, we need to be careful about blindly trusting any request for manual payment.
NODEcoin will do things to enhance the NXTblockchain and to reinforce forging. The NODEcoin will do valuable things for the NXT network and as such I believe people will bid for them in the NXT Asset Exchange. So, it would have some resale value, but its not like it will become the national currency of . Of course, who knows what crypto speculators will do.

It wont be very CPU or network intensive, so just let it run in the background and you will start earning NODEcoins. Obviously no premine, no ipo, just launch and let the mining commence. The fewer people mining, the higher the payout and probably a bit of a decline in "block reward" over time. Not exponential decay though, I hate that.

James

P.S. Almost forgot about original question. I am redesigning NXTcash so that it will utilize a gateway for part of the functionality and that will benefit from peer reviewed data, which I plan to put into NODEcoin.

Concerning nodecoin, will there be upper limit to the number of nodecoin? One must be carefull to the initial parameters of the coin because the parameters must be set so that there is always a reason to "mine" nodecoin (always a reason to protect the network). If a upper limit is reach eventually in the number of coin, there will be no reason to mine nodecoin, as no more nodecoin will ever be generate.

I would rather use a reward method inverserly proportional to the number of node "mining". Something like, [reward per block] = X/(number of node mining)^Y, where X and Y are constant. This would be similar to primecoin, which the reward is inversely proportional to the difficulty square (i.e. X=999 and Y=2, for primecoin).

What is your thought on this James.

With 1 billion coins, an average of 100,000 per day will last a long time.
I think starting at 250,000/day and gradually reducing to 100,000 per day is a good starting point to think about.
Also, I think it makes sense to scale the payout based on the number of active NXT accts.
Unlike other coins, it is possible to recirculate nodecoins (or any other NXTcoins), by having the issuer buy them back. Kind of like a stock repurchase that corporations do.

I want to make sure nodecoin has a tangible value so I will be calling for donations that will go into a nodecoin repurchase acct, probably the same acct as originally issues the asset. This will provide a price floor and demand.

So, if the network needs a boost, pop in NXT to the repurchase fund and nodecoin price goes up, more miners mine. Though I will make the nodeminer very lightweight so there is no reason not to be running it in the background

James
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
Please define NODEcoin. Is it going to mix together with NXTcash ?

I've seen some message about it like :

Quote
nodecoin has a very good purpose as it will allow all of the non-hallmarked nodes to earn something for being part of the network, even if they wont ever be able to directly forge a block, they will earn nodecoins. Generous donators can then fund a NXT dividend to flow through the nodecoins. Maybe we run forging with a non-profit model. All excess transaction fees after paying for the cost of the hallmarked servers gets distributed to nodecoin owners.

Quote
The goal is to get people forging. If we make it in their financial interest to forge with a consistent generation of NODEcoin, then I think a lot of people will forge rather than not forge. Especially if the NODEcoins end up being worth more than the expected forging income, then the whole "pool" issue is moot.

Quote
I will be creating NODEcoin 2.0, which in addition to rewarding people for forging, will be actively validating all gateway transactions and will generate alerts if it ever detects any funny business. As long as the gateway monitors are happy, all is well. I dont expect more than an occasional yellow alert, when there is a network glitch and a transaction has to be manually resent. With the malleability issue, we need to be careful about blindly trusting any request for manual payment.
NODEcoin will do things to enhance the NXTblockchain and to reinforce forging. The NODEcoin will do valuable things for the NXT network and as such I believe people will bid for them in the NXT Asset Exchange. So, it would have some resale value, but its not like it will become the national currency of . Of course, who knows what crypto speculators will do.

It wont be very CPU or network intensive, so just let it run in the background and you will start earning NODEcoins. Obviously no premine, no ipo, just launch and let the mining commence. The fewer people mining, the higher the payout and probably a bit of a decline in "block reward" over time. Not exponential decay though, I hate that.

James

P.S. Almost forgot about original question. I am redesigning NXTcash so that it will utilize a gateway for part of the functionality and that will benefit from peer reviewed data, which I plan to put into NODEcoin.

Concerning nodecoin, will there be upper limit to the number of nodecoin? One must be carefull to the initial parameters of the coin because the parameters must be set so that there is always a reason to "mine" nodecoin (always a reason to protect the network). If a upper limit is reach eventually in the number of coin, there will be no reason to mine nodecoin, as no more nodecoin will ever be generate.

I would rather use a reward method inverserly proportional to the number of node "mining". Something like, [reward per block] = X/(number of node mining)^Y, where X and Y are constant. This would be similar to primecoin, which the reward is inversely proportional to the difficulty square (i.e. X=999 and Y=2, for primecoin).

What is your thought on this James.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Please define NODEcoin. Is it going to mix together with NXTcash ?

I've seen some message about it like :

Quote
nodecoin has a very good purpose as it will allow all of the non-hallmarked nodes to earn something for being part of the network, even if they wont ever be able to directly forge a block, they will earn nodecoins. Generous donators can then fund a NXT dividend to flow through the nodecoins. Maybe we run forging with a non-profit model. All excess transaction fees after paying for the cost of the hallmarked servers gets distributed to nodecoin owners.

Quote
The goal is to get people forging. If we make it in their financial interest to forge with a consistent generation of NODEcoin, then I think a lot of people will forge rather than not forge. Especially if the NODEcoins end up being worth more than the expected forging income, then the whole "pool" issue is moot.

Quote
I will be creating NODEcoin 2.0, which in addition to rewarding people for forging, will be actively validating all gateway transactions and will generate alerts if it ever detects any funny business. As long as the gateway monitors are happy, all is well. I dont expect more than an occasional yellow alert, when there is a network glitch and a transaction has to be manually resent. With the malleability issue, we need to be careful about blindly trusting any request for manual payment.
NODEcoin will do things to enhance the NXTblockchain and to reinforce forging. The NODEcoin will do valuable things for the NXT network and as such I believe people will bid for them in the NXT Asset Exchange. So, it would have some resale value, but its not like it will become the national currency of . Of course, who knows what crypto speculators will do.

It wont be very CPU or network intensive, so just let it run in the background and you will start earning NODEcoins. Obviously no premine, no ipo, just launch and let the mining commence. The fewer people mining, the higher the payout and probably a bit of a decline in "block reward" over time. Not exponential decay though, I hate that.

James

P.S. Almost forgot about original question. I am redesigning NXTcash so that it will utilize a gateway for part of the functionality and that will benefit from peer reviewed data, which I plan to put into NODEcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Almost missed it. Idea is great, when should we espect the working version?
March
hero member
Activity: 870
Merit: 500
Trading will make me rich)
Almost missed it. Idea is great, when should we espect the working version?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1131
Please define NODEcoin. Is it going to mix together with NXTcash ?

I've seen some message about it like :

Quote
nodecoin has a very good purpose as it will allow all of the non-hallmarked nodes to earn something for being part of the network, even if they wont ever be able to directly forge a block, they will earn nodecoins. Generous donators can then fund a NXT dividend to flow through the nodecoins. Maybe we run forging with a non-profit model. All excess transaction fees after paying for the cost of the hallmarked servers gets distributed to nodecoin owners.

Quote
The goal is to get people forging. If we make it in their financial interest to forge with a consistent generation of NODEcoin, then I think a lot of people will forge rather than not forge. Especially if the NODEcoins end up being worth more than the expected forging income, then the whole "pool" issue is moot.

Quote
I will be creating NODEcoin 2.0, which in addition to rewarding people for forging, will be actively validating all gateway transactions and will generate alerts if it ever detects any funny business. As long as the gateway monitors are happy, all is well. I dont expect more than an occasional yellow alert, when there is a network glitch and a transaction has to be manually resent. With the malleability issue, we need to be careful about blindly trusting any request for manual payment.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
What is the feeling of everyone about integrating zerocoin into the NXT mainnet after testing?

Since we cant integrate C++ code into the NXT core, it would have to be put into the gateways and clients for peer validation. If we put NXTcash validation into NODEcoin also, we would get a large scale peer reviewed NXTcash. Essentially it would be a NXTcash blockchain on top of NXT that is enforced by NODEcoin. We might not have to store the large 30K proofs in the blockchain, not sure on this yet but there is a promising approach using gateway that could encapsulate the large proofs. I am hopeful that we will be able to submit to jean-luc and all Java set of mods to the NXT core that will support NXTcash. In March.

This technique could be expanded to add other blockchains that could be totally independent unto themselves, or be interwoven with NXT blockchain via gateway.

I used to think gateways were just boring deposit/withdrawal functionality. Now I am realizing that a gateway can be used to bridge the gap between a lot of things that are not NXT with NXT. By doing so, NXT gets effectively extended.

James
tyz
legendary
Activity: 3360
Merit: 1533
February 28, 2014, 05:59:01 PM
#41
interesting project. i will follow the progress and good luck.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
February 28, 2014, 03:34:10 PM
#40
Marcus got a zeronet up and running!
Now we need a few testers
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
February 28, 2014, 12:21:30 PM
#39
Following up on the request in the main NXT thread: I can setup and maintain one or two ZC testnet VPS. Sent me a link to your NRS version and I set it up.
Thanks! I PM'ed you the details.

James
Awesome!
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
February 28, 2014, 06:12:32 AM
#38
Following up on the request in the main NXT thread: I can setup and maintain one or two ZC testnet VPS. Sent me a link to your NRS version and I set it up.
Thanks! I PM'ed you the details.

James
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
February 28, 2014, 04:20:31 AM
#37
Following up on the request in the main NXT thread: I can setup and maintain one or two ZC testnet VPS. Sent me a link to your NRS version and I set it up.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1131
February 27, 2014, 08:53:17 AM
#36

Perfectly explained. Thank you.

Maybe we can get CIYAM Open involved once he finishes with Automated Transactions ?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
February 26, 2014, 09:14:59 PM
#35
Now, here comes a totally unexpected possibility. What if the automated gateway was able to handle NXTcash? All this gateway coding made me realize it just might be able to be done, which means we could get NXTcash much, much sooner as we dont have to port it to Java.
User mints NXTcash and sends public part + corresponding NXT to gateway, which issues NXTcash Asset to the gateway account. At this point nobody can trade the NXTcash asset.
User now has all that is needed to redeem the NXTcash in the private files from the minting process. For privacy, he copies it to a flash drive and goes to a public data center. From there he starts a NXTcash spend process, which only requires the private data on the flash drive and designates a brand new NXT acct to receive the NXTcash asset. Now the NXTcash asset can trade and the gateway would always have a minimum bid of 1:1 so the original amount spent is available (minus whatever fees)

This is a great idea. The sooner it is working, the better.

This is certainly not as good as having it built into the protocol as it relies on the gateways being operational and also that the gateways will always have a 1:1 repurchase bid in Asset Exchange. Also, the NXTcash trading on AE is not anonymous. This actually might really help avoid any stigma attached to using this tech. Only if you went out of your way to redeem the NXTcash on a different computer will you have true anonymity.

What does "NXTcash trading" refer to ? What will be anonymous and what will not ?
The "teleporting" happens when you take the private info and redeem it for previously minted NXTcash assets. It is the private info generated on your computer and presumably being redeemed via USB drive on a physically different computer and the redemption randomly chooses from all the previously minted, but unclaimed NXTcash assets.

So what is visible on the blockchain is:

Temporarily "burning" NXT to register public data, which also adds NXTcash assets to a global pool. We see the NXT coming in. We know that private data was created, but not the actual data. public data mathemagically gets added to Accumulator. We also see that the amount of NXTcash assets available increased, but this is not a surprise because it matches the amount of NXT "burned"

We probably want to recommend to people to wait until there are at least NXTcash assets in the global pool.

At some point, we see the side effect of the private data being "spent", which will only be seen on the blockchain as an asset transfer from NXTcash global pool to a (brand new) NXT acct.

NXTcash assets trading on Asset Exchange is all visible, but I think this is actually good as there is nothing inherently evil with NXTcash itself. It just gives people the option to utilize the privacy step above.

At some point anybody that purchased NXTcash assets can simply redeem it for NXT by transferring it back to the NXTcash acct. This is also visible.

So, the first step is really a lot like going to the bank and getting a suitcase full of cash, which dont have any serial numbers. The spending step is like depositing the suitcase full of cash and getting fully traceable casino chips. And the final redemption is converting the casino chips back into your "bank" balance, eg. NXT acct.

James
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1131
February 26, 2014, 07:25:17 AM
#34
Now, here comes a totally unexpected possibility. What if the automated gateway was able to handle NXTcash? All this gateway coding made me realize it just might be able to be done, which means we could get NXTcash much, much sooner as we dont have to port it to Java.
User mints NXTcash and sends public part + corresponding NXT to gateway, which issues NXTcash Asset to the gateway account. At this point nobody can trade the NXTcash asset.
User now has all that is needed to redeem the NXTcash in the private files from the minting process. For privacy, he copies it to a flash drive and goes to a public data center. From there he starts a NXTcash spend process, which only requires the private data on the flash drive and designates a brand new NXT acct to receive the NXTcash asset. Now the NXTcash asset can trade and the gateway would always have a minimum bid of 1:1 so the original amount spent is available (minus whatever fees)

This is a great idea. The sooner it is working, the better.

This is certainly not as good as having it built into the protocol as it relies on the gateways being operational and also that the gateways will always have a 1:1 repurchase bid in Asset Exchange. Also, the NXTcash trading on AE is not anonymous. This actually might really help avoid any stigma attached to using this tech. Only if you went out of your way to redeem the NXTcash on a different computer will you have true anonymity.

What does "NXTcash trading" refer to ? What will be anonymous and what will not ?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
February 26, 2014, 06:43:10 AM
#33
Now, here comes a totally unexpected possibility. What if the automated gateway was able to handle NXTcash? All this gateway coding made me realize it just might be able to be done, which means we could get NXTcash much, much sooner as we dont have to port it to Java.

User mints NXTcash and sends public part + corresponding NXT to gateway, which issues NXTcash Asset to the gateway account. At this point nobody can trade the NXTcash asset.

User now has all that is needed to redeem the NXTcash in the private files from the minting process. For privacy, he copies it to a flash drive and goes to a public data center. From there he starts a NXTcash spend process, which only requires the private data on the flash drive and designates a brand new NXT acct to receive the NXTcash asset. Now the NXTcash asset can trade and the gateway would always have a minimum bid of 1:1 so the original amount spent is available (minus whatever fees)

This is certainly not as good as having it built into the protocol as it relies on the gateways being operational and also that the gateways will always have a 1:1 repurchase bid in Asset Exchange. Also, the NXTcash trading on AE is not anonymous. This actually might really help avoid any stigma attached to using this tech. Only if you went out of your way to redeem the NXTcash on a different computer will you have true anonymity.

James
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
February 25, 2014, 04:10:46 PM
#32

Quote
in about a month, I expect to have something early adopters can test

What are they smoking ?
They have been working on it months now (from last summer I think)..
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1131
February 25, 2014, 08:04:58 AM
#31

Quote
in about a month, I expect to have something early adopters can test

What are they smoking ?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 280
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
I don't really come from outer space.
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