Topic: [NXT] Testnet for Automated Transactions (AT) - Turing Completeness for Nxt - page 2. (Read 4248 times)

Watching. I would love to see a decentralized version of kickstarter 

 
This is epic. Could Nxt be the first ?

I realised there is another Turing Complete implementation in Nxt done by a third party developer.

It is for a specific subset of tasks and not meant to be as far reaching as Nxt AT AFAIK, I'll dig out the link...

I think I know what you mean. There has been some thought to the problem of malicious scripts in Nxt AT and I understand the devs believe that they can contain the threat. I don't know what is discussed behind the scenes/devchat but publicly they plan to:

I) limit the access the Nxt AT Account to a subset of the NXT APIs and;
II) each cycle of the Nxt AT contract has a cost in Nxt so it can only run until the account runs out of money. It can't run forever and bloat the blockchain, an attacker would have to keep buying and sending Nxt to the malicious AT to keep it attacking.


Interestingly, L8rre argues here >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/ats-with-fsm-based-dsl/msg30133/#msg30133

...that Turing Complete can't be Turing Complete as it can't calculate 1+Pi, it could only run forever and ever. Nxt AT above would be able to calculate this to as many decimal places as the Nxt in the account allowed. So is this really Turing Complete?   But I think Kushti clears up the definition later on down the thread (also note how Nxt forum tolerates clueless noobs like me, I learn a lot  ).

Wow, awesome stuff, thanks again!

TC might be a bad idea, anyway.  Seems like any sufficiently powerful cryptocurrency may contain the seeds of its own destruction.

You are welcome  I have to say it is nice to have a civil discussion on BitcoinTrashTalk for a change.


You may also be interested in Smart Contracts by Come-from-Beyond >>> https://nxtforum.org/smart-contracts/express-your-wish-(smart-contracts)/

It's not Turing Complete but some devs argue that TC is OTT for most applications. This is a planned core-feature of Nxt but clashes with Nxt AT, which has created friction between the two projects.


Nxt also has a third implementation, "Community-checked Programmable Agreements" (catchy, yeah?  ), previously named Semi-Automated Transactions >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/semi-automated-transactions/

Again, not Turing complete but the argument in there covers why. Too technical for me but you might like it.



Why have so many of the same implementation? My understanding is that Smart Contracts was always a planned Nxt feature. Nxt AT was started by a third party dev, not knowing about Smart Contracts as it was unannounced at the time so there is overlap. Kushti is a part time core dev and his project is done as a third party dev. Third party devs can build what they like so if they see value in it, who are we to judge? Whatever happens, it is all still exciting



TL:DR Nxt has three implementations of Smart Contracts in development

i) Nxt AT (Turing Complete)
ii) Smart Contracts
iii) Community-checked Programmable Agreements (previously Semi-Automated Transactions)

Thank you, that is extremely helpful.

Give the money back thief!!!!

Any statements from Ian Knowles regarding this?

Seems very similar to XCRs custom made blockchains. Can you explain the difference?

I think XCRs will see more developer use and support because of it's low cap high potential aswell as it hasn't dwelled into every bit of business and copied every idea out there in crypto there is, also can build what nxt build in it and vice versa. So I think both will find a nische in the market with XCR winning as it is the core function intended which will get most focus. Also not having a flawed initial distribution making new contributors/investors scared.

No harm meant in my post even though maybe it's phrased that way, good luck. Exciting

15 Oct?
Sounds perfect! 

15 Oct. It has been in private testing for a couple of months, it will be on public testnet on the 15th Oct.


https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/information-of-the-at-project/msg113168/#msg113168

This project could be a BOOM for NXT.

Any date for the first "tests"?
Following closely!

I would give you a +1 if I could for doing your own research

You might be interested in the machine code testing and results for Nxt AT: http://ciyam.org/nxt/

If you want more information on the innards, the best person to contact is btc2nxt at nxtforum.org. He is the one who most commonly gives updates in the thread you posted above.


Edit: Nevermind, I see you have already registered and asked questions

AFAIK, Ethereum offers a Turing complete language to create smart contracts. Google tells me Ethereum says Ethereum has 0 features, it is a platform to build on.

In this respect, Nxt Automated Transactions is Ethereum. Nxt has a working product in alpha and not only slideshows. And Nxt is also a platform to build on by third party developers (see the famous work of JL777 for proof).



Additionally,


I) Ethereum will use it's own custom scripting language. When it is released, maybe a couple dozen people will be able to use it and create contracts in Ethereum. Nxt AT is written in low level language (machine code) and CIYAM himself says in the podcast above that it will take very little to convert to C initially and then other languages as they progress.

So within a few weeks of release, there is likely to be tens of thousands of existing programmer that already have the skills needed to write smart contracts in Nxt AT.  


ii) Ethereum always have to be Turing Complete with its transactions, it has all the bells and whistles in every transaction. This has a computational cost. Nxt AT just has Turing Complete transactions to be processed when it is necessary.

Think of Ethereum as the big RV, you can go camping and it has everything you need but popping into town to pick up a few things from the shops is laborious and cumbersome.

Think of Nxt as a fast sports car and Nxt AT as a trailer. Nxt sports car can be used for day to day transactions (popping to the shops), then you just hitch the Nxt At trailer onto Nxt when you need to for more complex turing complete transactions (like going camping).

Nxt AT is designed to be the best of both worlds.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, but some people do still seem to be developing Automated Transactions.

I was the one who came out against Cointropolis.

At the time of my arrival and roughly a week or two into it, I really had no idea what was going on.  The moment I realized it was a ponzi scheme I posted here.  Then my problems started.

The entire incident involving jl777 transpired within a few weeks of meeting him.

did you see my chart?

Automated Transactions was an attempt to implement ideas similar to those discussed in early Ethereum discussions.

Ian Knowles and a Greek named Vasilis issued an asset called NxtAT that was somehow related to the production of these features.

NxtAT seems to have disappeared.  http://is.gd/mxGIU7

the current capitalization of NxtAT is roughly $486,000 USD.

the issuer account has, at the time of writing, a balance of 1,368,473.02 NXT.  https://nxtblocks.info/#section/accountId/NXT-RZ9H-H2XD-WTR3-B4WN2

As well they seem to be increasingly breaking the law.  There's drugs and other illegal activity on the digital marketplace.   The asset exchange is bypassing the SEC.  NxT is now planning to bring in an illegal lottery and an illegal poker service.  The lead developer is hiding in a pseudo-Communist country called Belarus and even if he went full public he would never be prosecuted and if indicted wouldn't be expatriated to court in the United States.  If he does go to jail then it would be by the Belarusian authorities accusing him of laundering money or being involved with some kind of criminal activity.


 I think these are all barriers towards getting any recognition or investment from serious parties.  If you noticed on a lot of the crypto news websites - they refrain from mentioning NxT unless money gets stolen.



Not saying this as a good or a bad thing, rather apathetic about it.  NxT looks like it's aiming to be equivalent of a 4Chan Crypto currency and only time will tell if it will work.  

NxT used to be $90-$110 million at its' peak and I would be really surprised if it reclaims that former capitalization, more features or not.  NxT started to lose a lot of capitalization when the public became aware of its' distribution (alienation #1) and after the digital marketplace I noticed their capitalization actually went down (alienation #2.  Against predictions of it going up, probably because people didn't want to hold a coin that is used by drug dealers.  Could be comparable to how Bitcoin boomed after the Silkroad was shut down.).