Topic: O.B.O.L. [Open Bearer Onion Ledger] (Read 276 times)

We’ve been through this before, think of highly pruned versions of the blockchain, combined with the simplicity and efficiency of Muun.
I never claimed that the device would have full node capabilities - thus you won’t need GB’s in storage, nor WiFi capabilities, only a SIM for running TOR.

#mass.adoption.gadget
#every.day.use
#privacy

It's still a bad idea to make it a wearable because even now there is no NAND chip small enough to fit in there and store the whole ledger, and in general it's more expensive to develop and maintain than a simple rectangular-shaped device.

It should be as large as a calculator and have NFC technology, a battery and a rear camera to gain the sort of adoption required, but the only way to make a self-sufficient device that does not rely on other nodes is for the Bitcoin blockchain to incorporate ZK-proofs as a substitute for downloading hundreds of thousands of historical blocks. That will bring the download amount down to a few GB (and yes, that means it will require WiFi capability).

What an idiot!

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Bump.
Also I think this belongs here:

https://bombthrower.com/bitcoins-killer-app-already-exists/

Indeed.
It doesn’t need to be advertised though.




All this is very nice, and yeah - we’re not talking about the Tor browser. LOL.
My … Raspberry pi would like to have a word with you. It’s currently offline, and haven’t really got round to mounting the disk up again successfully. It run Tor over VPN, so there was no need to edit the torrc manually, or port forward anything for that matter. Of course Tor as service was required [as was Core, dah], but apart from that - it contributed just fine to the Bitcoin network. Now this is the magic I was referring.

Last word: embedded.

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That’s why we need to care for their privacy, and embed it - so they can’t screw it up.




Well, today, how about tomorrow? The day after perhaps?




You know, not all people want to be educated - and it is their right.

Bitcoin must be for them too.

True. But I doubt a device that's simple in a technical manner won't have a serious effect. If people don't care about their privacy, they'll find a way to screw it up.

Because Bitcoin in general is hard for mass adoption, first and foremost. In the end, there's need for education. Be it for privacy, for financial sovereignty, for Bitcoin etc.

I disagree.
It can be simple and elegant. Complex solutions invite chaos, and that is missing the point entirely.




Although I tend to agree on that statement, I find it very hard for mass adoption purposes.




Agreed. Perhaps people should start from boycotting them.




As I mentioned at the beginning - “not limited to”.
You put your cash wallet in your pocket, right? Perhaps you can do the same with OBOL, and instead of having it as a watch, you can put it in your pocket too. It doesn’t need to be on the wrist, it can be hidden, and besides - everybody knows that you must have cash -or Bitcoin- in our case on you.
Pro-tip: In a Faraday case enclosure.

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Two seeds. One for the hot, and one for the cold part of OBOL.
The hot part has limited funds for dayily use, whereas the second part is completely isolated.




No. Separate storage on the same device.




I’m sorry, no.




Muun is very user friendly, if only it was not on the tracking device. That was my point, don’t be alarmed.
Just because Electrum allows custom servers, doesn’t mean you should trust them. By the way, anti-klepto tech is a must.




Agreed.




Errr, no, “passport” my ass.




Thanks, but it’s not a “watch”. It’s a freedom money device.
Kindly don’t drift too much into technical stuff, as I can’t really follow.




The stonk market is fraudelent by design, that’s how.

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Sure it can, answered above, separate storage - accessible via the accompanying software - run on another device.




But it does, just take a look at the Core wallet running exclusively on Tor. Magic right there!




Aye.

Because whatever device holds the keys, has to not have any type of advanced connectivity (wireless, USB, ...). And you suggested that this device is going to have a SIM card and whatnot. So you would need to remove any keys from it and store them on a second device.

It will be cumbersome inherently, because you will still need 2 devices (as explained above), in addition to whatever devices you already carry.

I find it alarming that you think Muun is a good option in this context, since there is no way to select e.g. a custom Electrum server - you know, basic privacy practices.

Most people won't, even though we are in the same both in this regard. Personally, I have an actual computer with / near me most of the time, so I'm very happy with just a 'traditional' everyday hardware wallet (Passport Batch 2).

Cool! I believe it could be a great development platform for your idea and then be shrunk down (e.g. to wrist-size) later on. The CPU is a softcore implemented on an FPGA, so you can 100% verify even the structure of your actual processor (or change it). It comes with slower performance, but it should suffice for a watch.

How's that? I suggest to look into it more, it's a pretty sweet platform for developing a maximally private hardware & software product. Development boards are never very cheap, even a regular old FPGA dev board runs a few hundred bucks.

That's a more difficult to answer question than "how can we get rid of tracking in Bitcoin mobile wallets?". It's more complex than that. And a more complex problem requires a rather more complex solution; not a comfortable watch. I believe that our best course is to improve education. Privacy violation is just inevitable in some levels, such as preferences in content you watch at YouTube. But, using an iPhone watch or a Google Home Assistant is just plain stupid, in my opinion, because it comes with little benefit, and does violate privacy to the maximum.

Yes. What I don't find wise is to show everybody you have a cool bitcoin-wallet-watch full of cash.

Agreed. Perhaps the assisting software can handle that - and written directly on a piece of paper.



I’m not that technically versed to answer that, but my guess is that cypherpunk magic can do the trick.



Core updates on the firmware - yes. Not user controlled.
Perhaps we can have OBOL.Tor -trusted- bridges.

I’m thinking that it needs to have more than one seed [hot-cold]. Perhaps multisig is also an option.
Furthermore, we are talking about a time that Bitcoin has resolved its privacy issues and is quantum resistant proof.



Tor is the important part and embedded to the device, VPN is merely an option.
That said, it has the handling software on the other end, for all such beauties.



VPN - if desired - obviously yes, Tor no.

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This is the problem. How can the average Joe be trained to remain private?
For most this is an impossible task - just consider the elderly, or people not technically versed.
Bitcoin should be for everyone.



Aye. Again, that IS the problem.



I’m hoping we can change that, yes.




Do you find it wise to walk around with a wallet full of cash?
The answer is yes, that’s why you set limits via its software - in the example that someone tries to rob you.
You would give up your daily limits, as you would give up the cash on you.



Good point. That’s why it has a question mark on the last feature.
It doesn’t need to be compatible with the banks, in fact I would prefer that it isn’t.
But in order to make it handy - at the beginning - banks should be allowed to follow the Bitcoin lead.



As a protocol - sure does. I’m still divided on this tbh.

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Emm, no. The whole thing needs to be as dumbed down as possible and very simple to use. Nothing “smart” about it.
The battery, antenna and SIM, will need to be detached completely when not in use. Perhaps including a Faraday enclosure on the device too.



As I already said, compatibility with the banking system is an option, and the more we discuss it - the more I drift away.

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Yup.



I think I’ve answered this above.



I dislike the term “smart”.
Why two part though - one OBOL device and its controlling software - on another device [laptop, tablet].



It needs to be elegant, but yes, I’m not aware how you can fit all the features in such a small device. It is 2023 however.



No, this is not suitable for daily use.
That said, I find Muun an excellent app for that, if only no phones were involved.



Let’s face it indeed, I’m already using it to the minimum, and hoping to ditch it before the end of this year entirely.
One needs to really try, I’ll give you that much.



I’m not aware of this, and I’ll have a look into it. OBOL is something I’ve been thinking for years.



Oh my, stonk!, it starts to fail the smell test already.

Basically a dumbed-down smartwatch with hardware privacy features (like turning off any antennas physically) and only very specific apps installed. That's possible.

What's not possible is having a cold and hot wallet in one device at the same time. Just because you can turn off wireless, doesn't mean it suddenly 'gets cold'. If the device 'got hot' / online once, it has to be considered 'compromised' permanently (i.e. stolen seed) in the security model in which hardware wallets are interesting (because anything connecting to internet can get - and is thus considered - infected).

So it could be a 2-part device with a 'Bitcoin smartwatch' and a separate hardware wallet that you wear on the other wrist or something. I do think this sounds quite cumbersome, though. I'd prefer a privacy-focused smartphone / PDA and a hardware wallet. Because let's face it; you won't entirely ditch your phone anytime soon.

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In any way; maybe have a look into https://betrusted.io/. Your idea (the parts of it that are possible) could be built on this platform. If you want to completely ditch the smartphone, you could go down the 2-device-route where the 'Betrusted Precursor' represents the 'online device' that you need to use with a fully offline hardware wallet which holds the keys.

The 'Precursor' is in stock right now for $600 USD.

Making it a wearable implies putting it on some sort of smartwatch which is not much better in terms of privacy than using your phone or PC.

Why not just use the conventional card for storage? Except instead of being connected to VISA or Mastercard, it's connected to this kind of ledger?

The idea that bitcoin must not be tracked as free money is good. However, it's rather an individual's responsibility to remain private. Also, people use smartphones all the time nowadays. The comfort is just too good. Maybe tracking is inevitable for the masses, which is the audience I presume you refer to.

And you find it pretty wise to walk around with a wallet as a watch?

That requires from each bank to develop an app for that specific OS (as I assume it will have its own). I don't see any incentive from the banks' perspective. NFC works more than well.

O.B.O.L. [Open Bearer Onion Ledger]

Abstract:
The whole purpose of such device - a universal hot & cold hardware Bitcoin wallet - is to remove the necessity of phones and other devices, also making it suitable for every day use. If Bitcoin is going to succeed as a form of free money, it’s imperative to detach it from our tracking devices, and hopefully with some future Core updates - make it private and secure against quantum AI’s. Exactly what the free human race would need, to sustain their financial freedom for generations to come.

Features:

• Uses the on-chain Bitcoin network to transact, as well as any second layer solution [lightning network], or any side chain solution [if ever] for micro transactions - the Core approves.
• It’s round and wearable, but not limited to. Personally I conceive it round, and worn on the wrist, pretty much like a watch - much how the modern digital version of obol [Bitcoin] money should look.
• It has a display screen, a camera, two confirmation buttons on either side [left-right], a charging port for its battery, a SIM slot [at the bottom] combined with a small switch which turns the antenna on and off - manually - for any internet or local connection. On the upper and lower side of the OBOL, are the charging port and antenna [and power] switch respectively.
• It has its own [open source] firmware, as well as an open source software, to control it and set its limits for daily use. When connected and put in use, it routes all the traffic through Tor, which is embedded to the device. No Tor, no transaction. Tor over VPN, can also be an option.
• Bitcoin only, there is no need for it to handle any other inferior coins. Bitcoin is freedom, all others are not.
• Compatibility with the current banking system via its software as an option[?]. This feature will be removed once the banking cartel has crashed, and all that remains is Bitcoin.

I seek no personal benefit from this idea or the device itself, should it’s ever build and circulated, rather I find it extremely important that it just gets out there, by the people - and for the people. I cannot code, nor have the financial ability to pursue it myself, nor want to, to be honest. All I have and want to share in this thread, is my vision of the device. My technical back-round is very limited in understanding of how this device can come into fruition, yet, I’d be more than happy to discuss it here.

Just my three sats.
Thanks.