Foundation Devices 'Passport Batch 2' hardware wallet review

RickDeckard

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Quote from: n0nce on July 21, 2023, 08:15:00 AM

Quote from: RickDeckard on July 02, 2023, 02:19:49 PM

I think that the only way that you could disguise your purchase would use a mix of actions:
[...]

May I suggest an 'out of the box' Wink

alternative?
I believe that you can buy Passports in-person using BTC at some Bitcoin conferences that Foundation Devices attend. If not, they should start offering this option..

You can indeed as per my previous reply[1]. The only downside that I see from this is that you're limited to your country of residence and how well is Bitcoin being adopted in there. You can, of course, decide to travel to attend the conference, but that would increase the costs of the device (indirectly). You can, however, book some vacations in Spain and then, coincidentally, be there in Bitcoin conference to buy their device Wink

.

As for the more out of the box idea - sending it to a non habituated house or location - seems too much risky for me (I'm risk adverse). It could work, but the amount of workaround or precautions that you would have to take would be considerable.

[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62555927

n0nce

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 21, 2023, 10:48:07 AM

I am not necessarily wanting to get into any debates, but it seems incorrect to be suggesting that my desire to remain anonymous in receiving a package or the way that I pay for such package would be illegal (or should be illegal..and even if such a thing were to be illegal in some jurisdictions, it does not seem to be the kind of law that would be enforceable, except by tyrants)..

Sorry, I was not completely clear. What I was trying to say is that I can imagine it being illegal to ship to and / or step onto a property that is not yours (nor rented by you).

JayJuanGee

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Quote from: n0nce on July 21, 2023, 08:15:00 AM

Quote from: RickDeckard on July 02, 2023, 02:19:49 PM

I think that the only way that you could disguise your purchase would use a mix of actions:
[...]

May I suggest an 'out of the box' Wink

alternative?
I believe that you can buy Passports in-person using BTC at some Bitcoin conferences that Foundation Devices attend. If not, they should start offering this option..

Another (possibly illegal) solution: locate an inhabited house in a non-surveilled location (opposed to PO boxes that are often CCTV'd) and use this as delivery location. Either wait there at the day of delivery or instruct the driver to drop off the package & pick it up later. It's a method which has been used for illegal activities in the past, so it should be relatively secure.

Overall, I like that idea, and it does not sound illegal to me - to receive a package at a location that I am at, and either not using my real name or using a fictional name (if the shipper requires some kind of a name?)...

Also if the shipper is willing to ship without either KYC or with minimum KYC that gets removed from their system after a bit of time, that does not sound illegal either.

I am not necessarily wanting to get into any debates, but it seems incorrect to be suggesting that my desire to remain anonymous in receiving a package or the way that I pay for such package would be illegal (or should be illegal..and even if such a thing were to be illegal in some jurisdictions, it does not seem to be the kind of law that would be enforceable, except by tyrants)..

Also, even if such a service has been used to receive "illegal" items or to perform "illegal" products in the past, it seems to me that a signing device does not seem to fit into such a category of something that either is illegal (or should be illegal if some tyrant were to want to make it illegal merely because they do not like individuals having abilities to digitally transact and/or communicate information/value directly with each other and without a third party intermediator).

n0nce

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not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: RickDeckard on July 02, 2023, 02:19:49 PM

I think that the only way that you could disguise your purchase would use a mix of actions:
[...]

May I suggest an 'out of the box' Wink

alternative?
I believe that you can buy Passports in-person using BTC at some Bitcoin conferences that Foundation Devices attend. If not, they should start offering this option..

Another (possibly illegal) solution: locate an inhabited house in a non-surveilled location (opposed to PO boxes that are often CCTV'd) and use this as delivery location. Either wait there at the day of delivery or instruct the driver to drop off the package & pick it up later. It's a method which has been used for illegal activities in the past, so it should be relatively secure.

satscraper

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Quote from: cygan on July 17, 2023, 11:48:01 AM

since today there is the new passport 2.1.2 release, with the new update it is now possible to send your funds to taproot 'p2tr' address. everything else like which bug fixes and improvements are coming with the new release, you can see from the links below

As a matter of fact the taproot feature has been integrated into Passport since the release of v.2.1.0 firmware. New in v.2.1.2 is that "the build is now "reproducible" again" meaning you can yourself "easily build and verify Passport firmware' from code found on Foundation's GitHub repository.

Quote from: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2/releases

Nevertheless, thanks for informing on new release.

My Passport 2 runs v.2.1.0 and probably tomorrow I will update it.

cygan

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since today there is the new passport 2.1.2 release, with the new update it is now possible to send your funds to taproot 'p2tr' address. everything else like which bug fixes and improvements are coming with the new release, you can see from the links below

Quote

In version 2.1.2, we’ve leveraged all of the background work in recent versions to build out some amazing new features for you, including backporting v2.1 firmware to Founder’s Edition, sending to Taproot addresses, a Key Manager Extension for BIP 85 and Nostr key support and export, and BIP 85 SeedQR exports. Features, features everywhere.

https://foundationdevices.com/2023/05/passport-version-2-1-1-is-now-live/
https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2/releases/tag/v2.1.2

RickDeckard

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 15, 2023, 03:48:00 PM

I think Passport can sell wallets for cash if you live in United States, or you can get them delivered to Amazon lockers I think.
Another option is to buy hardware wallets at some bitcoin conference, and maybe you will find some additional discount.

They do accept cash but not physical cash - If you follow their checkout process there are only two options available to choose from:

Best option to pay for cash would be the one you've mentioned - in a Bitcoin conference - or, if unavailable, then choosing from their list of resellers[1]. While the chances are very low, the next Bitcoin conference that Foundation will attend will be in Spain[2] - Watch Out, Bitcoin[3].

[1]https://foundationdevices.com/resellers/
[2]https://nitter.it/FOUNDATIONdvcs/status/1680230828285083652
[3]https://wobitcoin.org/

dkbit98

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Quote from: Pocketchange on June 30, 2023, 10:05:53 PM

I'm torn between this wallet, cold card and Jade.

Jade is lower class budget device that doesn't have secure element, so it's less secure than other two wallets you mentioned.
Coldcard is not open source anymore, but code base is very similar and Passport is based on it's old code.
If I had to pick from this three wallets I would always pick Passport.

Quote from: Pocketchange on June 30, 2023, 10:05:53 PM

Do they ship discreetly? And if I read correctly passports are shipped UPS with tracking. correct?

I think Passport can sell wallets for cash if you live in United States, or you can get them delivered to Amazon lockers I think.
Another option is to buy hardware wallets at some bitcoin conference, and maybe you will find some additional discount.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: Pmalek on July 04, 2023, 11:36:49 AM

It's a good solution, but just as I thought, not only is it only available in the USA, but it has very limited reach there as well. You can only use their lockers in Los Angeles and New York City. Everyone else in the States, not to mention the world, doesn't benefit from this option. As time goes by, I am sure it will incorporate more cities. They might even reach Europe or someone could create an alternative here. But I suspect it's again going to be something for the biggest countries to take advantage of, while the majority won't be able to use it.

I totally understand your point of view, but my previous entry was more showing that there could be other services that could be used, and GoLocker would be just one example of a company that does it. I don't know about the US, but I do know that in Europe there are a lot of companies that offer this kind of service (providing a locker address to receive packages instead home addresses). But yeah, at the end of the day this isn't a really global solution that could be employed by everyone...

satscraper

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My job requires frequent business trips within EU, and I have used this as opportunity to have the package with Passport inside delivered to hotel where I stay. I made the purchase from a local reseller in the country I visited, rather than from my country of permanent residence. While it may not be the ideal solution, I believe it is better than relying on the logistics of my own country.

Pmalek

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Quote from: RickDeckard on July 03, 2023, 06:37:11 PM

The only alternative - that I'm aware - that could work is to have the package sent to a locker where you could later pick it up such as the service offered by GoLocker[1] (recently launched in NYC[2]). As far as I could see, you could provide a fake name and a temporary e-mail in the signup process. To receive the message to open the locker you would need to buy a SIM card just for that operation, but I suppose that it would be easily bought in a store.

It's a good solution, but just as I thought, not only is it only available in the USA, but it has very limited reach there as well. You can only use their lockers in Los Angeles and New York City. Everyone else in the States, not to mention the world, doesn't benefit from this option. As time goes by, I am sure it will incorporate more cities. They might even reach Europe or someone could create an alternative here. But I suspect it's again going to be something for the biggest countries to take advantage of, while the majority won't be able to use it.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: Pmalek on July 03, 2023, 12:06:53 PM

~
Delivering to PO boxes could be tricky depending on where you live and which courier does the shipping. When I order stuff online, I sometimes have to provide ID to the courier who feeds the information into the system. Staying anonymous doesn't work in that case. Some couriers in certain countries won't allow deliveries to PO boxes.

The only alternative - that I'm aware - that could work is to have the package sent to a locker where you could later pick it up such as the service offered by GoLocker[1] (recently launched in NYC[2]). As far as I could see, you could provide a fake name and a temporary e-mail in the signup process. To receive the message to open the locker you would need to buy a SIM card just for that operation, but I suppose that it would be easily bought in a store. However I do reckon two problems with this process:

You would have to pay to use this service by either a credit or debit card. Perhaps using a solution such as Privacy.com[3] would obfuscate the purchase? Or ask some friend/family of yours to pay for it?
The places where these lockers are put are usually under CCTV. You probably would have to go with some kind of clothes that would help you hide your identity from the cameras.

[1]https://www.golocker.com/
[2]https://www.timeout.com/newyork/news/new-york-city-is-testing-a-public-locker-program-to-help-with-package-deliveries-070323
[3]https://privacy.com/

Pmalek

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Quote from: RickDeckard on July 02, 2023, 02:19:49 PM

There is nothing wrong with your recommendations, but they will only be effective if a person follows all of them. For example, mixing your coins is a good idea. But mixing your coins and then having the device delivered to your home address under your real name defeats one of the purposes of mixing.

Delivering to PO boxes could be tricky depending on where you live and which courier does the shipping. When I order stuff online, I sometimes have to provide ID to the courier who feeds the information into the system. Staying anonymous doesn't work in that case. Some couriers in certain countries won't allow deliveries to PO boxes.

satscraper

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Confirming.

The aesthetically designed inner box which contains Passport 2 device is shipped inside solid white carton protected by a tamper-evidend blue strip. The latter holds characters which indentify the batch of device manufacturing.

Quote from: https://docs.foundationdevices.com/passport/setup

Below are Passport 2 boxes I have got.

Quote from: satscraper

RickDeckard

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Quote from: n0nce on July 02, 2023, 11:31:20 AM

Yeah, so I believe this (white box) was the 'outer box' and it did have some minor 'Foundation Devices' labeling on it as seen in the second picture. I also just checked and found a picture of the shipping label that I did not post, where the sender is labelled as 'Foundation Devices'.

Thank you for validating my theory @n0nce. I really don't think you'll be able to disguise the sender information in your packaging @Pocketchange, if this is what you were concerned about. I think that the only way that you could disguise your purchase would use a mix of actions:

Pay for your purchase using bitcoin acquired in a P2P market. Ideally see what payment processor the service uses (BTCPay Server would be great as Pmalek cited). If you want to further increase the privacy of your purchase, use Payjoin[1] or Coinjoin;
If you are inclined to get a Foundation Device, have a look at their resellers[2] and see if you find some shop that doesn't sell only crypto related devices. For example this Slovenian reseller - Enna[3] - sell a plethora of technology devices - ranging from TV's, washing machines, laptops, monitors - and they also sell Foundation batch 2[4]. If you bought it from them, it would be very hard to pinpoint exactly what kind of device would be inside the packaging (as opposed as buying in a service that only sells hardware wallets);
Get a PO box (as others have said) and ship the item to that address.

I know that, in the US at least, in order to get a PO box you have to provide some personal data[5] but you would avoid giving out your real address thus preventing your real address from any future data leak that the service may incur. For peace of mind do note that Foundation deletes your personal data 60 days after shipping your device[6]. Other providers may have different time frames that you can also check in their privacy policy[6].

[1]https://foundationdevices.com/2022/03/passport-coinjoin/
[2]https://foundationdevices.com/resellers/
[3]https://www.enaa.com/
[4]https://www.enaa.com/varni-in-pametni-kljuci/passport-batch-2-denarnica-za-bitcoin-foundation-devices
[5]https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1093.pdf
[6]https://foundationdevices.com/privacy/

n0nce

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Quote from: n0nce on January 22, 2022, 11:15:34 PM

The Foundation Passport comes in sort of two layers of 'tamper-evident seals' / stickers. This is how it should arrive (inside a larger box) at your doorstep.

Yeah, so I believe this (white box) was the 'outer box' and it did have some minor 'Foundation Devices' labeling on it as seen in the second picture. I also just checked and found a picture of the shipping label that I did not post, where the sender is labelled as 'Foundation Devices'.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: Pmalek on July 02, 2023, 02:44:51 AM

There aren't any clear markings either on the outer box nor on the inner one that you are dealing with a hardware wallet. The Foundation logo is on the upper cover, but you would have to be familiar with it to know what it represents.

I think that the concern of Pocketchange is more related to what kind of information is placed on the outer box of the packaging unit. I imagine that OP doesn't want people to know that the sender of the package was a hardware wallet company, which would have a sender address something like "Foundation Devices ...". Do note that the shipping package may differ depending on where you bought the device from. I found this article[1] that has a picture of what appears to be the outer packaging box (it even has the shipping details removed).
As for verifying that the device wasn't tampered during the shipping process, Foundation has a validation[2] website that you can use to make sure your device wasn't altered in any way.

Quote from: Pocketchange on July 01, 2023, 08:01:47 PM

Thanks for the info. I'm a little concerned on how the package is labeled. I'm pretty sure foundation isn't the most well known company anyway.

While Foundation devices doesn't have the marketing level that other competitors in the market (such as Ledger and Trezor) do note that the comparison would be unfair - you are comparing a relative new company with both Ledger and Trezor that have been in the market for years. If you take a moment to look for feedback regarding Foundation devices in this forum - a pot of knowledge regarding Bitcoin - you'll find almost no negative feedback regarding their devices.

[1]https://bitcoinmagazine.com/guides/foundation-passport-bitcoin-wallet-guide
[2]https://validate.foundationdevices.com/

Pmalek

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Quote from: Pocketchange on July 01, 2023, 08:01:47 PM

I'm a little concerned on how the package is labeled. I'm pretty sure foundation isn't the most well known company anyway.

You can read a bit more about the way the package looks in n0nce's unboxing part of his Foundation Passport (FE) hardware wallet review and walkthrough. As he explained, the Batch 2 is also shipped in the same white box with a security seal. Once you open it, you should see this:

There aren't any clear markings either on the outer box nor on the inner one that you are dealing with a hardware wallet. The Foundation logo is on the upper cover, but you would have to be familiar with it to know what it represents.

Pocketchange

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Thanks for the info. I'm a little concerned on how the package is labeled. I'm pretty sure foundation isn't the most well known company anyway.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Pocketchange on June 30, 2023, 10:05:53 PM

Do they ship discreetly? And if I read correctly passports are shipped UPS with tracking. correct?

What do you consider discreetly? Unless something changed, Passport Foundation allows shipping to PO boxes. You can also pay for your hardware wallet with Bitcoin through BTCPay Server, which is another privacy boost. Regarding shipping methods, I guess it depends on your country/location. I know that Foundation works with USPS and UPS, maybe other couriers as well.

Topic: Foundation Devices 'Passport Batch 2' hardware wallet review (Read 2035 times)