Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments - page 944.

davidoski

sr. member

Activity: 297

Merit: 250

Quote from: SatoNatomato on January 24, 2017, 05:24:47 PM

Note: byteball already today has support for Tor, its not "on going" anymore as previously mentioned.

Show me a user who uses a headless wallet. Everybody is using GUI wallet which does not have that functionality yet.

On a Monero hiding or obfuscating - I don't think it matters a lot if it's hiding or obfuscating or whatever anybody calls it. What matters is the end result which is: there's no way to know anything about transaction using recently introduced Ring Confidential Transactions (RingCT) - neither the amount nor the sender and recipient's real address. You can check the explorer how it looks like - it's beautiful:

https://xmrchain.net/

(Note that some of transactions still don't use RingCT therefore their outputs are visible. RingCT is default but not mandatory as of yet - this is going to change in July when a hard fork is planned that makes RingCT mandatory).

Tonych, I think you might be interested in reading RingCT research paper. You can find it here:

http://www.ledgerjournal.org/ojs/index.php/ledger/article/view/34

SatoNatomato

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Note: byteball already today has support for Tor, its not "on going" anymore as previously mentioned.

jwinterm

legendary

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1116

Monero does hide amounts now, actually, with the recent hardfork to allow ring confidential transactions (CT) transactions on mainnet. Also, as you point out ring signatures only obfuscate, but In conjunction with stealth addresses, you can achieve an anonymity set in the millions with maybe ten "hops".

IMO "hubs" sound like more of a vulnerability than a plus, as maybe counterparty might not know your IP, but the hub could be logging everyone's IP that connects.

Anyway, agree that usability is key, especially for byteball where there is less emphasis on decentralization and trustlessness.

tonych

legendary

Activity: 965

Merit: 1033

Quote from: Karartma1 on January 24, 2017, 02:28:36 AM

I thought the second was the most obvious one and, in fact, it is. And given the other features that's a bit problematic. I thought of using TOR for BB but as you pointed out that's just as anonymous as TOR can be. Monero wins on that side.
Would be nice to hear something from tonych..

TOR makes a lot of sense in cryptocurrencies whose ledgers are public, because it prevents other connected nodes from linking your transactions to your IP address. When you are paying in blackbytes, your transaction is visible only to the payee, and usually you are not even connected to the payee directly, you communicate over a hub. This means that, even when TOR is off in your Byteball client:
- unrelated third-parties learn nothing
- the payee can learn your IP only in two cases: you are connected directly or the payee colludes with the hub
Turning TOR on (available in headless clients, will be supported soon in GUI clients) removes the above risk.

Differences with Monero:
- Monero doesn't hide amounts, blackbytes do.
- Strictly speaking, ring signatures used in Monero only obfuscate information about the sender, don't completely hide it. Blackbytes truly hide all information. This is not to say obfuscation is always something of subpar quality, good obfuscation can be as good as hiding for all practical purposes.

That said, I think the anonymity features of Monero are already good enough for most users, the real game changer is usability, where imho Byteball shines. And it is not just about anonymity.

HI-TEC99

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 2846

Quote from: CryptKeeper on January 24, 2017, 02:24:48 AM

Quote from: bitcampaign on January 22, 2017, 07:40:23 PM

I wish all the people would give a vote to ByteBall on trading sites MERCATOX, I believe with many trading sites will make many other new communities grow to make byteball be great, please give free VOTE for byteball and immediately added to the trading site MERCATOX

https://mercatox.com/coins/list

I've voted for Byteball, please join! Grin

I''ll vote for it.

I also asked alcurEX to list byteball in this post, please join!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17335090

cryptohunter

legendary

Activity: 2100

Merit: 1167

MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG

where are the details of the BB sig campaign? I dont see it on the OP.

johhnyUA

legendary

Activity: 2436

Merit: 1849

Crypto for the Crypto Throne!

Quote from: HCLivess on January 24, 2017, 06:56:22 AM

how many participants does a ring signature require in monero implementation? 3? whole network?

If i right understand your question, monero ring signature uses whole network to anonimize your payment. But I can be don't right, because i didn't read monero whitepaper and saw it's code. If you right, please correct me. I ll be very glad)

zanzibar

hero member

Activity: 715

Merit: 500

Quote from: logictense on January 24, 2017, 12:26:51 PM

Im getting free balls to all my linked addresses and dont know what to do with them. I sent part of my shares to vaticans pope and dispensed a big chunk to charity. Hell this shit is more worthless than lisk and wings altogether.

I'll buy all of your byteball if you actually hold any, which I doubt, I'm buying up to 1kGB

logictense

hero member

Activity: 2147

Merit: 518

Quote from: zahra4577 on January 24, 2017, 06:37:50 AM

Quote from: barnes13 on January 23, 2017, 10:12:52 PM

Quote from: rekcahxfb_foundation on January 23, 2017, 05:49:18 PM

Hello, how can i link my btc address to byteball? Thanks

take a look, this is a Tutorial: linking Ledger wallet Nano S to Byteball account via signing a message with Electrum made by @hermesesus
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17160291
Because this is a second distribution you need to read post from @tonych
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17566450

I missed the first distribution and still repent it.Is it going to work same this time too as earlier? like we will get equal number of byteball to the amount of btc?

Im getting free balls to all my linked addresses and dont know what to do with them. I sent part of my shares to vaticans pope and dispensed a big chunk to charity. Hell this shit is more worthless than lisk and wings altogether.

greentea

legendary

Activity: 1418

Merit: 1002

Quote from: davidoski on January 24, 2017, 12:48:57 AM

Quote from: wpalczynski on January 24, 2017, 12:36:58 AM

On another note I am sure many people have had the opportunity to review the architecture of this new blockchain-less approach to the consensus algorithm. Has anyone been able to find and articulate any potential security problems or shortfalls?

Yep, just a few of them:

1. Full node stores the whole DAG data which means it isn't that much more scalable in comparison to blockchain without blocksize limit (e.g. Monero). It has the same limitation related to hardware storage capacity and bandwidth.

2. Witnesses control the network. And they are only 12 of them. If they form a cartel they can start censor the network or do other malicious behavior. Getting rid of witnesses cartel is hard - the network needs to split which is called "schism". Read the whitepaper for more info.

3. Blackbyte are not fully anonymous. When you send them you reveal your IP to hub. TOR implementation is work on to mitigate the problem. Eventually (if implemented) blackbyte would be as anonymous as TOR is anonymous which is not 100%. Monero is much more anonymous.

4. Whitebyte are fully transparent just as bitcoin blockchain. You can check the senders holdings just by going to DAG explorer. There are no plans to make them less susceptible to analysis and therefore more fungible.

5. Data storing feature is very limited due to cost. It's basically just a little text storing feature. Take a look at my calculations to see why.

Quote from: davidoski on December 27, 2016, 02:11:44 PM

Byteball is great but I'm still wondering about the Blackbytes. Somewhat confused why tony choose to add this and not focus solely on the new tech itself.

For anonymity I'd go with a coin that focuses exclusively on being anonymous.

johhnyUA

legendary

Activity: 2436

Merit: 1849

Crypto for the Crypto Throne!

Byteball has very good and workaholic developer, nice whitepaper and coin phylosophy (i mean idea of the project). Give it time and a little bit later every big exchanger will list it for free. Like they listed Ethereum and Dash. Everything will be in near future Cool

Okurkabinladin

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 506

Quote from: jwinterm on January 22, 2017, 10:52:17 AM

Quote from: Jeff Jefferson on January 22, 2017, 10:13:49 AM

what exactly are the benefits of bigger exchanges? cryptox is really fine!

why is everyone just focusing on the exchanges? what about the upcoming features?

Well, volume sucks so there's a big ass spread. You think 15% difference between buys and sells is ideal? Also, their site sucks, they don't even show volume for last 24 hrs, but eyeballing orders looks like just a couple BTC worth.

Lets give it some time. Even politicans get one hundred days to prove themselves Wink

things you mentioned are technicalities that simply needs to be worked out. I remember, when Monero had total market cap of couple million with only Poloniex - buggy as hell at that time, trading it. This is pretty smooth next to it.

str4wm4n

legendary

Activity: 1611

Merit: 1001

Happy to have joined the Signature campaign!

It's actually the first signature campaign I've ever done with my account.

Payout seems good, it's an awesome project and it will get me to do some writing and interaction!

CryptKeeper

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1055

Quote from: mm0104 on January 24, 2017, 06:39:15 AM

Is it possible to convert blackbytes to bytes, or send them to an exchange in order to sell?

I thought about copying my deposit adress from cryptox to a byteball client and then send this adress via chat to the client that holds the blackbytes. I would then be able to send them to the deposit adress. Would that work out?

No, you have to link two wallets by invitation code to transfer any blackbytes.

kaicrypzen

hero member

Activity: 1344

Merit: 656

Quote from: tonych on January 23, 2017, 06:40:03 PM

Quote from: kaicrypzen on January 22, 2017, 02:14:42 PM

Now both my devices have the latest version and are synced. The app on my Android device doesn't crash anymore, my blackbytes transaction appears in the history and blackbytes are missing from the balance.

It is even more weird than the previous error. Did you try to reboot it?

Yes I did restart the app and then reboot both my phone and my PC, nothing changed.

Quote from: tonych on January 23, 2017, 06:40:03 PM

Quote from: kaicrypzen on January 22, 2017, 02:14:42 PM

The full wallet on my 64-bit Windows 10, however, doesn't seem to have received the blackbytes, they do neither show in the balance nor in the history.

Was is supposed to receive blackbytes? Did it have linked addresses?

Yes, my pc's app has linked addresses, received blackbytes from the distribution and from other devices and has some on it. My phone's app also has linked addresses, didn't receive blacks from the distrib (which is normal) but received blacks from my pc's app.

HCLivess

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1090

=== NODE IS OK! ==

Quote from: davidoski on January 24, 2017, 12:48:57 AM

Quote from: wpalczynski on January 24, 2017, 12:36:58 AM

On another note I am sure many people have had the opportunity to review the architecture of this new blockchain-less approach to the consensus algorithm. Has anyone been able to find and articulate any potential security problems or shortfalls?

Yep, just a few of them:

1. Full node stores the whole DAG data which means it isn't that much more scalable in comparison to blockchain without blocksize limit (e.g. Monero). It has the same limitation related to hardware storage capacity and bandwidth.

2. Witnesses control the network. And they are only 12 of them. If they form a cartel they can start censor the network or do other malicious behavior. Getting rid of witnesses cartel is hard - the network needs to split which is called "schism". Read the whitepaper for more info.

3. Blackbyte are not fully anonymous. When you send them you reveal your IP to hub. TOR implementation is work on to mitigate the problem. Eventually (if implemented) blackbyte would be as anonymous as TOR is anonymous which is not 100%. Monero is much more anonymous.

4. Whitebyte are fully transparent just as bitcoin blockchain. You can check the senders holdings just by going to DAG explorer. There are no plans to make them less susceptible to analysis and therefore more fungible.

5. Data storing feature is very limited due to cost. It's basically just a little text storing feature. Take a look at my calculations to see why.

Quote from: davidoski on December 27, 2016, 02:11:44 PM

1. You must be delirious, using Monero block size limit as an argument. Of course it doesn't need a 1 MB limit if you are 0.99 MB from crossing it. Show me a network capable of throughputting 1 MB in both blocks and mempool every 10 minutes (2 minutes in case of monero) to 5000 nodes ranging from mobile phones to laptops. You cannot, not in 2017.

2+3. Just a pile of lies. Ring signatures do not secure anonymity and require additional processing (times number of signers). You use an argument against witnesses in point 2, yet you use the argument of ring signatures in point 3 - how many participants does a ring signature require in monero implementation? 3? whole network?

Disclaimer: I dont hold any fuckero or byteballs

mm0104

full member

Activity: 192

Merit: 100

Is it possible to convert blackbytes to bytes, or send them to an exchange in order to sell?

I thought about copying my deposit adress from cryptox to a byteball client and then send this adress via chat to the client that holds the blackbytes. I would then be able to send them to the deposit adress. Would that work out?

zahra4577

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: barnes13 on January 23, 2017, 10:12:52 PM

Quote from: rekcahxfb_foundation on January 23, 2017, 05:49:18 PM

Hello, how can i link my btc address to byteball? Thanks

take a look, this is a Tutorial: linking Ledger wallet Nano S to Byteball account via signing a message with Electrum made by @hermesesus
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17160291
Because this is a second distribution you need to read post from @tonych
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17566450

I missed the first distribution and still repent it.Is it going to work same this time too as earlier? like we will get equal number of byteball to the amount of btc?

bcmine

hero member

Activity: 1014

Merit: 1055

Quote from: CryptKeeper on January 24, 2017, 02:24:48 AM

Quote from: bitcampaign on January 22, 2017, 07:40:23 PM

I wish all the people would give a vote to ByteBall on trading sites MERCATOX, I believe with many trading sites will make many other new communities grow to make byteball be great, please give free VOTE for byteball and immediately added to the trading site MERCATOX

https://mercatox.com/coins/list

I've voted for Byteball, please join! Grin

what about GBB? i know tonych is not in favour for that, but its just a matter of time. the first thing would be a decentralised way of trade, but for that you need a GUI.

johny08

legendary

Activity: 1045

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Karartma1 on January 24, 2017, 02:28:36 AM

Quote from: davidoski on January 24, 2017, 12:48:57 AM

Quote from: wpalczynski on January 24, 2017, 12:36:58 AM

On another note I am sure many people have had the opportunity to review the architecture of this new blockchain-less approach to the consensus algorithm. Has anyone been able to find and articulate any potential security problems or shortfalls?

Yep, just a few of them:

1. Full node stores the whole DAG data which means it isn't that much more scalable in comparison to blockchain without blocksize limit (e.g. Monero). It has the same limitation related to hardware storage capacity and bandwidth.

2. Witnesses control the network. And they are only 12 of them. If they form a cartel they can start censor the network or do other malicious behavior. Getting rid of witnesses cartel is hard - the network needs to split which is called "schism". Read the whitepaper for more info.

3. Blackbyte are not fully anonymous. When you send them you reveal your IP to hub. TOR implementation is work on to mitigate the problem. Eventually (if implemented) blackbyte would be as anonymous as TOR is anonymous which is not 100%. Monero is much more anonymous.

4. Whitebyte are fully transparent just as bitcoin blockchain. You can check the senders holdings just by going to DAG explorer. There are no plans to make them less susceptible to analysis and therefore more fungible.

5. Data storing feature is very limited due to cost. It's basically just a little text storing feature. Take a look at my calculations to see why.

Quote from: davidoski on December 27, 2016, 02:11:44 PM

I thought the second was the most obvious one and, in fact, it is. And given the other features that's a bit problematic. I thought of using TOR for BB but as you pointed out that's just as anonymous as TOR can be. Monero wins on that side.
Would be nice to hear something from tonych..

1./5. its a datastorage system. its minimal, otherwise its getting expensive, price of transaction is very low and will always be.

2. Witnesses are owning max 8% of voting capacity. An Attack has to be proven successful. Time will tell as this is a completely decentralised open source project

3. building on top of a system with ip address, you can use TOR. Can be the witnesses being eliminated by ip blocking? If no, then the system is Anonymous. It can be used anonymous besides ip address problem. Its maybe not for your need, but of millions chinese people.

Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments - page 944. (Read 1234271 times)