Topic: Offering PayPal for Bitcoin? You're likely to be labeled a scammer - Read why - page 17. (Read 28859 times)
April 01, 2013, 05:29:39 PM
Isn't the risk of buying bitcoins with paypal the same risk as buying anything else with paypal? What is considered to be the safest way to do this other than going to someone in person and making sure you get the cash in hand?
April 01, 2013, 04:45:03 PM
Fascinating information.
April 01, 2013, 03:45:15 PM
Thanks for the useful info! I had no idea that Paypal could issue refunds even for cash gifts. Scary!
April 01, 2013, 03:25:15 PM
What about gift paypal paments? Quick easy no seller commision and unreversible
When these payments are sent to you from an account that has been hacked into and the original owner complains, or the payment is funded with a stolen or disputed credit card, you'll find out quickly how reversible PayPal is. PayPal isn't going to be left holding the bag, they pass their fraud losses on to you. 
April 01, 2013, 03:24:10 PM
Stickied for now
April 01, 2013, 03:18:39 PM
What about gift paypal paments? Quick easy no seller commision and unreversible
April 01, 2013, 03:16:57 PM
There have been an increasing number of posts from recently registered users wanting to buy bitcoins with PayPal. While new users may indeed be enthusiastic about Bitcoin and be accustomed to using PayPal for prior purchases, this type of request is also exactly what scammers do to steal bitcoins. It is relatively simple to charge back or dispute any PayPal payment after receiving irrevocable bitcoins, and scam purchases are used as a way to empty stolen PayPal accounts.
Traditional payment networks (including PayPal) suffer inherent weaknesses:
Bitcoin has none of these problems:
Why is it difficult to purchase Bitcoins with your old-fashioned money?
If this is the fault of Bitcoin, it is because Bitcoin is too good. If you receive a payment with Bitcoin, you can be 100% sure that the money is yours and it can't be disputed or taken back out of your wallet. PayPal, Credit cards, ACH checking transfer and money wires, Chase Quickpay, Dwolla, and most any other banking payments, however, can be reversed - they are less trustworthy than the Bitcoins you are trying to buy.
This is why even Bitcoin exchanges have rigorous verification procedures - they need to verify your identity thoroughly, not because of Bitcoin, but because they are taking your government currency, transferred through banks and payment processors, which is fundamentally problematic. Exchanges that only deal with Bitcoin-based virtual currencies (such as Bitcoin to Namecoin) have no such identity requirements.
In addition, PayPal specifically disallows currency exchanges, and are Bitcoin-hostile. When you complain that you were ripped off, it's just as likely your account will be frozen.
Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
...
relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, or (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities.
So how can you obtain bitcoins, if nobody on the Internet can tell the difference between you and a foreign crime syndicate? If you don't wish to go through the lengthy verification procedures on exchanges, I recommend you first investigate local traders who are willing to exchange bitcoins in person. Sites such as https://localbitcoins.com/ or http://www.tradebitcoin.com/ may help you find local Bitcoin users. Also, Bitcoin is for commerce - sell something and accept Bitcoin!
Traditional payment networks (including PayPal) suffer inherent weaknesses:
- Some payment fraud is unavoidable,
- Completely non-reversible transactions are not possible; payment processors are involved in disputes,
- Identity fraud and remote account takeover using stolen credentials are possible,
- Payment processors can block funds and freeze accounts,
- You must provide your credit card or account number to sites, which can be stolen by hackers to spend your money.
Bitcoin has none of these problems:
- Confirmed Bitcoin payments are absolutely trustable,
- Payments are non-reversible; money cannot be recalled by the sender,
- Identity theft is a non-issue - payment recipients don't need to obtain the identity of buyers or store personal information to take payments,
- Nobody else can interfere with your Bitcoin balance or your ability to send or receive money,
- You are in control of your money - when you send a payment, the recipient or hackers cannot make other fraudulent withdraws from your wallet.
Why is it difficult to purchase Bitcoins with your old-fashioned money?
If this is the fault of Bitcoin, it is because Bitcoin is too good. If you receive a payment with Bitcoin, you can be 100% sure that the money is yours and it can't be disputed or taken back out of your wallet. PayPal, Credit cards, ACH checking transfer and money wires, Chase Quickpay, Dwolla, and most any other banking payments, however, can be reversed - they are less trustworthy than the Bitcoins you are trying to buy.
This is why even Bitcoin exchanges have rigorous verification procedures - they need to verify your identity thoroughly, not because of Bitcoin, but because they are taking your government currency, transferred through banks and payment processors, which is fundamentally problematic. Exchanges that only deal with Bitcoin-based virtual currencies (such as Bitcoin to Namecoin) have no such identity requirements.
In addition, PayPal specifically disallows currency exchanges, and are Bitcoin-hostile. When you complain that you were ripped off, it's just as likely your account will be frozen.
Quote from: PayPal Acceptable Use Agreement
Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
...
relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, or (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities.
So how can you obtain bitcoins, if nobody on the Internet can tell the difference between you and a foreign crime syndicate? If you don't wish to go through the lengthy verification procedures on exchanges, I recommend you first investigate local traders who are willing to exchange bitcoins in person. Sites such as https://localbitcoins.com/ or http://www.tradebitcoin.com/ may help you find local Bitcoin users. Also, Bitcoin is for commerce - sell something and accept Bitcoin!
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