Official End of Mt Gox thread - page 3.

zedicus

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Quote from: TooDumbForBitcoin on February 21, 2014, 09:03:58 PM

I'm confused by the title of this thread.

Is this thread about the official end of Mt. Gox?

Is this the official thread about the end of Mt. Gox?

Has the official end of the the Mt. Gox thread been announced?

The community sentiment is "to stick gox with a pitchfork" and take turns twisting and turning but..

I believe gox will stay and pretend none of this happened!

Kinda like that **** Yufi from Avalon who is still selling miners with a bag over his head...

hvezdasmrti

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This is the only statement which gox announced for his customers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

TooDumbForBitcoin

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I'm confused by the title of this thread.

Is this thread about the official end of Mt. Gox?

Is this the official thread about the end of Mt. Gox?

Has the official end of the the Mt. Gox thread been announced?

markjamrobin

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Quote from: ArticMine on February 21, 2014, 03:40:17 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on February 21, 2014, 02:54:51 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on February 21, 2014, 02:01:18 PM

Now the real question here is JPY withdrawals (domestic within Japan) in the last two weeks. How are they proceeding?

Seem to be taking 3-4 weeks, faster if you have a Japanet bank account, according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428242.100

This JPY delay is what finally convinced me that MTGox is insolvent.

What are JPY withdrawal times at these days?

ArticMine

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Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on February 21, 2014, 02:54:51 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on February 21, 2014, 02:01:18 PM

Now the real question here is JPY withdrawals (domestic within Japan) in the last two weeks. How are they proceeding?

Seem to be taking 3-4 weeks, faster if you have a Japanet bank account, according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428242.100

This JPY delay is what finally convinced me that MTGox is insolvent.

humanitee

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Quote from: sgbett on February 21, 2014, 03:28:22 PM

The additional carriage return at the end of my post was indicative of the progress that appears to have been made.

Oh, and the legal people start making noises like all us plaintiffs might have to 'donate' to keep the case going.

Oh how I laughed

lmfao, why am I not surprised.

sgbett

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Quote from: sgbett on February 21, 2014, 03:02:33 PM

So is the allegation that gox facing solvency issues due to general mismanagement of finances, decided to 'buy' bitcoin with goxbux, whilst stalling on fiat withdrawals, thusly pushing the gox price higher, whilst selling them on the other exchanges for real fiat.

It continued to harvest fiat thus easing cash-flow issues, waiting for the inevitable market blow off. Once it was clear we were in a solid downtrend it reversed its strategy this time, blocking BTC withdrawals to capitalise on downward momentum, causing panic selloffs. With all the surplus fiat gox now had, it was able to cover the 'goxbux' liability, as well as acquire a whole bunch of additional btc for cheap, knowing full well that it would reduce its bitcoin liability to customers such that when withdrawals re-open, they are left sat on a whole load of spare bitcoin, which will inevitably trend back towards equilibrium with the rest of the exchanges.

So if thats the story...

Is karpeles is the genius criminal mastermind behind this? Wink

It also crossed my mind, that if this (or whatever form of 1.stop deposits, 2.arb, 3.profit) has happened, then gox is going nowhere Wink

sgbett

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Quote from: humanitee on February 21, 2014, 03:05:06 PM

Quote from: sgbett on February 21, 2014, 03:04:15 PM

Quote from: humanitee on February 21, 2014, 03:03:11 PM

My greatest fear is that they will come out of this stronger, with their fraudulent/immoral/unethical behaviour being further incentivized. Now traders will want to have even more money there to be prepared for the next great Goxxing.

I will not put any more fiat into the ecosystem, and will strongly suggest to immediate friends and family they they do the same, until I see Gox volume drop greatly.

This could set a dangerous precedent for the community, especially if no legal action results.

let me tell you a story about how well the legal action is going with bitcoinica...

I actually haven't kept up with that. I'm guessing it's going quite shittily, yes?

The additional carriage return at the end of my post was indicative of the progress that appears to have been made.

Oh, and the legal people start making noises like all us plaintiffs might have to 'donate' to keep the case going.

Oh how I laughed

Lloydie

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Quote from: ArticMine on February 21, 2014, 02:47:44 PM

Quote from: Lloydie on February 21, 2014, 02:34:44 PM

We have no evidence that Gox was running a fractional reserve system, unless someone can point us to data proving so? It's unlikely for them to do so precisely because of Btc appreciation versus fiat in the months leading up to November 2013.

One would think, except for the fact that the "delays" in BTC withdrawals have followed a sharp rise in the BTC/USD rate in November / December 2013.

I thought the delays were initially in fiat. Only after a few months, were Btc withdrawals delayed, which caused gox Btc rates to fall below other exchanges?

humanitee

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Quote from: sgbett on February 21, 2014, 03:04:15 PM

Quote from: humanitee on February 21, 2014, 03:03:11 PM

My greatest fear is that they will come out of this stronger, with their fraudulent/immoral/unethical behaviour being further incentivized. Now traders will want to have even more money there to be prepared for the next great Goxxing.

I will not put any more fiat into the ecosystem, and will strongly suggest to immediate friends and family they they do the same, until I see Gox volume drop greatly.

This could set a dangerous precedent for the community, especially if no legal action results.

let me tell you a story about how well the legal action is going with bitcoinica...

I actually haven't kept up with that. I'm guessing it's going quite shittily, yes?

sgbett

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Quote from: humanitee on February 21, 2014, 03:03:11 PM

My greatest fear is that they will come out of this stronger, with their fraudulent/immoral/unethical behaviour being further incentivized. Now traders will want to have even more money there to be prepared for the next great Goxxing.

I will not put any more fiat into the ecosystem, and will strongly suggest to immediate friends and family they they do the same, until I see Gox volume drop greatly.

This could set a dangerous precedent for the community, especially if no legal action results.

let me tell you a story about how well the legal action is going with bitcoinica...

humanitee

hero member

Activity: 1302

Merit: 502

My greatest fear is that they will come out of this stronger, with their fraudulent/immoral/unethical behaviour being further incentivized. Now traders will want to have even more money there to be prepared for the next great Goxxing.

I will not put any more fiat into the ecosystem, and will strongly suggest to immediate friends and family they they do the same, until I see Gox volume drop greatly.

This could set a dangerous precedent for the community, especially if no legal action results.

sgbett

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Activity: 2576

Merit: 1087

So is the allegation that gox facing solvency issues due to general mismanagement of finances, decided to 'buy' bitcoin with goxbux, whilst stalling on fiat withdrawals, thusly pushing the gox price higher, whilst selling them on the other exchanges for real fiat.

It continued to harvest fiat thus easing cash-flow issues, waiting for the inevitable market blow off. Once it was clear we were in a solid downtrend it reversed its strategy this time, blocking BTC withdrawals to capitalise on downward momentum, causing panic selloffs. With all the surplus fiat gox now had, it was able to cover the 'goxbux' liability, as well as acquire a whole bunch of additional btc for cheap, knowing full well that it would reduce its bitcoin liability to customers such that when withdrawals re-open, they are left sat on a whole load of spare bitcoin, which will inevitably trend back towards equilibrium with the rest of the exchanges.

So if thats the story...

Is karpeles is the genius criminal mastermind behind this? Wink

Zangelbert Bingledack

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Quote from: ArticMine on February 21, 2014, 02:01:18 PM

Now the real question here is JPY withdrawals (domestic within Japan) in the last two weeks. How are they proceeding?

Seem to be taking 3-4 weeks, faster if you have a Japanet bank account, according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428242.100

ArticMine

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Quote from: Lloydie on February 21, 2014, 02:34:44 PM

We have no evidence that Gox was running a fractional reserve system, unless someone can point us to data proving so? It's unlikely for them to do so precisely because of Btc appreciation versus fiat in the months leading up to November 2013.

One would think, except for the fact that the "delays" in BTC withdrawals have followed a sharp rise in the BTC/USD rate in November / December 2013.

Lloydie

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We have no evidence that Gox was running a fractional reserve system, unless someone can point us to data proving so? It's unlikely for them to do so precisely because of Btc appreciation versus fiat in the months leading up to November 2013.

ArticMine

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Quote from: glendall on February 21, 2014, 02:12:29 PM

I think Gox will survive and be just fine.

Why? Because people didn't stay away after they were large part of all the other big price crashes in bitcoin.

I really hope I'm wrong though. I wish they would just disappear. The management is a bunch of imbeciles and they have been shown to untrustworthy.

If I wanted a fractional reserve system I'll just stick to fiat thanks.

If they are running a fractional reserve on BTC, which I suspect that are now, it will get real ugly real fast. Why because the BTC/USD rate will go up sharply and when it does that will be the end. It was an increase BTC/USD rate that killed pirateat40, and once the market got out of denial, and accepted the fact that pirateat40 did not have the BTC to pay anyone the BTC/USD rate went up by a factor of 100.

Lloydie

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I cannot understand why Gox has not issued a statement to the effect that x% of total funds was in their hot wallet versus cold wallet. That would reassure a lot of people. Just a really sad situation really. The management appears extremely inadequate in dealing with the public. They do not realise the impact they are having on bitcoin itself.

glendall

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I think Gox will survive and be just fine.

Why? Because people didn't stay away after they were large part of all the other big price crashes in bitcoin.

I really hope I'm wrong though. I wish they would just disappear. The management is a bunch of imbeciles and they have been shown to untrustworthy.

If I wanted a fractional reserve system I'll just stick to fiat thanks.

ArticMine

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Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on February 21, 2014, 01:26:29 PM

Quote from: donjoe on February 21, 2014, 02:23:09 AM

Hate all you want, but maybe Gox's screw-ups are what's been keeping this market volatile the way you like it.

All I can see is that they've been the biggest exchange for most of Bitcoin's history, naturally this lead to having the biggest problems to deal with, and they did deal with them and kept going every time. They're having a harder price crash than ever this time, but all eyes are on them and they're still making statements, so I can't say I'm expecting anything other than the usual: the problem getting solved in the end and overall public confidence in the Bitcoin ecosystem getting another boost from that.

Now you can carry on with your hate thread.

Indeed. Besides the lawsuits I can't see any particular reason for Gox to die. Keep in mind Gox has been working great, with only a few minor hiccups (and of course slow tech support), for those of us in Japan. It takes literally 2 minutes to deposit yen from a Japanese bank, and withdrawals have been smooth, usually 2-3 days, at most 2-3 weeks (this January). I hear SEPA withdrawals are working as well, though a few weeks delayed, and deposits seem to take a few days.

So, besides those in the US (and where else?), it's only been this recent BTC malleability issue - which was legitimized by other exchanges having similar issues concurrently - that has changed anything. Granted we can expect the usual bumbling, non-communicative, heal-dragging approach as always, but if they solve the malleability problem in a few weeks I see no particular reason to expect any kind of insolvency or discontinuation of service. They will of course lose a lot of customers and probably remain a buggy experience overall, but other than potential lawsuits I don't see what is supposed to be actually killing them at this time. Eventually, sure, they will die or become a niche service, but insolvency just because they probably got scammed out of some number of coins? Seems like idle speculation.

I also had no problems withdrawing USD to my Canadian bank account up to 10 months ago. It was very smooth typically under 48 hours. That was then, today the situation is very different. It is not just a "US" problem. I tried withdrawing CAD to a Canadian bank account back in October 2013. Not possible. I ended up buying back my BTC (at a profit I must say due to the silk road crash) and withdrawing my BTC right after. Now the real question here is JPY withdrawals (domestic within Japan) in the last two weeks. How are they proceeding?

Topic: Official End of Mt Gox thread - page 3. (Read 13004 times)