Official FutureBit Moonlander 2 Driver and Support Thread - page 49.

aarons6

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1006

Quote from: redzep on March 01, 2018, 05:32:57 PM

Quote

before buying new fans you should try to fix the ones you have.

carefully take the sticker off the back and using a needle poke the rubber o-ring that holds the shaft in place and take it off.. the easiest way is to do it the long way and just push the needle straight through it. dont worry about breaking the o-ring, you dont need to put it back on.

then just pull the fan apart, using some white lithium grease put it back together..

ok will try that, but would need to buy some white lithium grease, which i don't have, will this do https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00W6Q3B7U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Thanks

yeah thats the stuff, its multipurpose so you can use it on anything.

Finless

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

Quote from: jarvisparvis on March 01, 2018, 07:50:56 PM

Bob, Reckon thats wobble caused by buffeting from the air and disconnecting the usb's. Try standing the moonlanders vertical in a hub with the fan down on top. This cools both sinks and stops any undue force from one side.

No it's not. The fan is not connected to the hub. It is connected to an totally different mini-PC box under it's own power. Per the video!
Vibration is in no way attached to the hub running the moonlanders and in no way is vibration getting to them.
The moonlanders look like they are floating but they are resting on grey foam and supported. It's not vibration.
It's pure electro-mechanical noise. I can repeat it at will.

Bob

jarvisparvis

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

Bob, Reckon thats wobble caused by buffeting from the air and disconnecting the usb's. Try standing the moonlanders vertical in a hub with the fan down on top. This cools both sinks and stops any undue force from one side.

Finless

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

Check this out!

So I took my wife's cheapo USB fan to help cool the back heatsinks.

The video is self explanatory! Electromagnetic noise can affect these (or my hub).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsGezIxnb-E

Bob

Finless

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jstefanop on March 01, 2018, 06:01:03 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I was running Moonlander 2 for a couple of weeks, from internal USB of the laptop and had stable 4.7MHz/s speed at 832 freq.
Now, I got a good quality 2A USB hub. I put the core voltage slightly up and frequency 852. For a couple of hours it gave me speed of 4.9MHz/s and then stopped. I put the voltage back to previous position but now, no matter what frequency I put I get a speed of 3.1-2.4 MHz. Anybody knows how to check if I damaged the device? E.g. is there a way to check number of alive cores?

Thanks!

Put "-D 2>log.txt" at the end of the bat command. Start it up and it will spit out the log.txt file in same directory. In there you will see startup sequence and it checks for number of active cores. Should say 64.

Thank you for reply! It finds 63 cores. So one dead core. But it used to give me stable 4.7 MH and now I can't go higher than 3.5 MH. Could there be another reason?

That can't be your problem. Both of mine say 63 cores in the log. I never checked this day one but I am running 796 clock and hashing at about 4.45 or so per stick.

jstefanop, 0-63 = 64 cores? You sure you did not mean to say 63 not 64 for the log output? Hard to believe both mine are exactly 63 cores in the log?
One I got from you on Ebay and one I got from holybitcoin.

Bob

Finless

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

Quote from: jstefanop on March 01, 2018, 05:54:33 PM

Quote from: Finless on February 27, 2018, 01:39:10 PM

Quote from: lennyNO on February 27, 2018, 07:19:44 AM

Quote from: Finless on February 26, 2018, 08:20:07 PM

Your opinion please on temps.
... I use a heat gun probe tool to measure the small back heat sink and it runs about 153F. Knowing chips a bit 153F is OK.
... BUT the back heat sink runs about 162F. I think this is pushing it no?
Is 162F OK for the back heat sink? What is the max temp on this to be careful of reaching? Back in my old chip days 175F was about it before stuff starts losing a lot of life big time.

Back in the old days people read the instructions first -- see page 1 of this thread:

Quote

Even with a fan built in, you can still overheat your Moonlander at higher frequencies. I do not recommend running these past 800mhz unless you can closely monitor temps (if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C).

Everyone using these beyond 800Mhz uses external cooling (fans). 162F = 72C which is getting borderline, 153F = 67C is really hot. I am running at around 35C = 95F.

My bad... I missed this one line. And yes I have read page one many times. I just missed the one single line on the temp subject.

"if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C"

That is 176F and I am far below it at 153F. To me this seems OK then? Even at 832 clock and 163F this is still well below 176F.

So why do I need another fan? I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.

Bob

80C at the top of the small heatsink translates to about 90C chip core temp. I would not go above this for prolonged periods of time, but anything below 80C is actually quiet cool for an ASIC (especially for scrypt ASICs, since they don't have a very large compute die). I would not worry unless you reading temps past 80C.

The main issue with heat is actually more stress on the mosfets, since these chips scale very badly with heat (current draw reaches exponential curve as the chip temp goes up). Your most likely to fry the mosfets/cause a overheat buck shutdown than kill the asic.

Thanks, this is what I thought and why I asked.

Bob

jarvisparvis

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

Overvolting and overclocking is a very delicate and serious business when it comes to doing it right.

a) get some extra cooling external usb fans
b) get a digital multimeter and get used to using it before you attempt anything.(can pick them up cheap if you shop around)
c) get an infra red thermometer gun with a red dot again cheap if you shop around.

READ UP ON THIS MATTER IN DETAIL BEFORE YOU START RESEARCH IS THE KEY>BE PATIENT

d) and i kid you not, but, dont attempt adjusting the pots if you have drank alcohol the night before any slight hand shakes save the clocking for another day.
this may sound funny but you need to get your fingers used to fine delicate movements so like practice threading a needle with cotton until you can do it first time and then
youll be ready to finely adjust the pots to get the right fractional voltages.

Good Luck, read up, be patient dont rush and fry it.

Wink

jarvisparvis

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

Very pleased i have 6 of these. I bought 1 originally and then realised... i need these. (I dont normally spree like this) but youll see why.

Compared to the price of a leading graphics card at about £719 for a hash rate of 32mhs taking over 170 watts of draw it was a no brainer for me.

So i got the 6 efficient Moonlander 2's running on a ankher 13 port hub using some angled usb extenders and two fans Arctic Breeze fans extra on another hub nearby.

Undervolted the ram using a digital multimeter to check luckily all around .675 - 7 well under the recommended .9. Slightly adjusted the core voltage to .725 the sweet spot and clocked them to 756mhz. Need a very steady hand and a bit of patience on the adjuster pots very delicate fractions of a mm turns.

But tonight checked my babies and they were hashing on 29.02 mhs in bfgminer and the valid hashrate on my pool account at TBF mining Digibyte touched 35mhs which is pleasing.

Unsure of the slight reporting difference between BFG and TBF Pool stats but still very please as the weeks results are showing in my wallet and waiting for lift off.. you cant dispute that and better value and efficiency than some of the big name graphics cards.

Thanks for giving the little guy a chance.

pugmagician

jr. member

Activity: 125

Merit: 1

Quote from: jstefanop on March 01, 2018, 05:59:16 PM

Quote from: pugmagician on March 01, 2018, 05:37:27 PM

I have a question, I just went to adjust my voltage pot and the damn top part came off. I was wondering what pot was used on this so I could buy one and replace it.

Also could I just use a 1.5 ohm resistor in order to get the .75 Volts, and what solder points would I use for it if I could. I imagine one of them is one the core voltage probe point.

How did you manage that? These pots are pretty good with abuse, but either way all it takes is a very small screwdriver and some very fine and lite movements to change the voltage. Im assuming you went crazy on it and turned it way more than 180 degrees.

Pots are no where near 1.5 ohm...top one is around 5k and bottom is 100k if I remember correctly.

oh wow, I'm kinda stupid when it comes to the electrical current type of things, I know how to solder, but no idea how to use a multimeter. So I'm assuming 50k would be around the stock resistance then? is there somewhere where I could solder a regular resistor on there in or to just set it indefinitely to the stock core voltage?

I was trying to adjust the pot on the fly and I must had just put too much pressure on it, I was making sure not to turn it further than was said to in the tutorial.

jstefanop

legendary

Activity: 2174

Merit: 1401

Quote from: ?? on ??

I was running Moonlander 2 for a couple of weeks, from internal USB of the laptop and had stable 4.7MHz/s speed at 832 freq.
Now, I got a good quality 2A USB hub. I put the core voltage slightly up and frequency 852. For a couple of hours it gave me speed of 4.9MHz/s and then stopped. I put the voltage back to previous position but now, no matter what frequency I put I get a speed of 3.1-2.4 MHz. Anybody knows how to check if I damaged the device? E.g. is there a way to check number of alive cores?

Thanks!

Put "-D 2>log.txt" at the end of the bat command. Start it up and it will spit out the log.txt file in same directory. In there you will see startup sequence and it checks for number of active cores. Should say 64.

jstefanop

legendary

Activity: 2174

Merit: 1401

Quote from: pugmagician on March 01, 2018, 05:37:27 PM

I have a question, I just went to adjust my voltage pot and the damn top part came off. I was wondering what pot was used on this so I could buy one and replace it.

Also could I just use a 1.5 ohm resistor in order to get the .75 Volts, and what solder points would I use for it if I could. I imagine one of them is one the core voltage probe point.

How did you manage that? These pots are pretty good with abuse, but either way all it takes is a very small screwdriver and some very fine and lite movements to change the voltage. Im assuming you went crazy on it and turned it way more than 180 degrees.

Pots are no where near 1.5 ohm...top one is around 5k and bottom is 100k if I remember correctly.

jstefanop

legendary

Activity: 2174

Merit: 1401

Quote from: Finless on February 27, 2018, 01:39:10 PM

Quote from: lennyNO on February 27, 2018, 07:19:44 AM

Quote from: Finless on February 26, 2018, 08:20:07 PM

Your opinion please on temps.
... I use a heat gun probe tool to measure the small back heat sink and it runs about 153F. Knowing chips a bit 153F is OK.
... BUT the back heat sink runs about 162F. I think this is pushing it no?
Is 162F OK for the back heat sink? What is the max temp on this to be careful of reaching? Back in my old chip days 175F was about it before stuff starts losing a lot of life big time.

Back in the old days people read the instructions first -- see page 1 of this thread:

Quote

Even with a fan built in, you can still overheat your Moonlander at higher frequencies. I do not recommend running these past 800mhz unless you can closely monitor temps (if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C).

Everyone using these beyond 800Mhz uses external cooling (fans). 162F = 72C which is getting borderline, 153F = 67C is really hot. I am running at around 35C = 95F.

My bad... I missed this one line. And yes I have read page one many times. I just missed the one single line on the temp subject.

"if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C"

That is 176F and I am far below it at 153F. To me this seems OK then? Even at 832 clock and 163F this is still well below 176F.

So why do I need another fan? I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.

Bob

80C at the top of the small heatsink translates to about 90C chip core temp. I would not go above this for prolonged periods of time, but anything below 80C is actually quiet cool for an ASIC (especially for scrypt ASICs, since they don't have a very large compute die). I would not worry unless you reading temps past 80C.

The main issue with heat is actually more stress on the mosfets, since these chips scale very badly with heat (current draw reaches exponential curve as the chip temp goes up). Your most likely to fry the mosfets/cause a overheat buck shutdown than kill the asic.

pugmagician

jr. member

Activity: 125

Merit: 1

I have a question, I just went to adjust my voltage pot and the damn top part came off. I was wondering what pot was used on this so I could buy one and replace it.

Also could I just use a 1.5 ohm resistor in order to get the .75 Volts, and what solder points would I use for it if I could. I imagine one of them is one the core voltage probe point.

redzep

jr. member

Activity: 44

Merit: 1

Quote

before buying new fans you should try to fix the ones you have.

carefully take the sticker off the back and using a needle poke the rubber o-ring that holds the shaft in place and take it off.. the easiest way is to do it the long way and just push the needle straight through it. dont worry about breaking the o-ring, you dont need to put it back on.

then just pull the fan apart, using some white lithium grease put it back together..

ok will try that, but would need to buy some white lithium grease, which i don't have, will this do https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00W6Q3B7U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Thanks

aarons6

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1006

Quote from: redzep on March 01, 2018, 04:25:52 PM

Hi

what are your thoughts on these fans to replace Stock fan, bit pricey i know but don't fancy running these with no fan with summer coming up

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071W6JZV8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&th=1

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a4x10-5v

40x40x10 5v currently out of Stock but i think they do about 8 CFM

have 4 MLD2 total, 2 each on Anker® 60W 7-Port USB 3.0 Data Hub

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VE4UJD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

but 1 MLD has not been very happy the last few weeks with hashing go down to 2.5 if frequency was set above 800 and today it sounds like a rocket ship so taken it out of hub
until i get a replacement fan, i'm also running one 120cm USB fan to help airflow

Thanks

before buying new fans you should try to fix the ones you have.

carefully take the sticker off the back and using a needle poke the rubber o-ring that holds the shaft in place and take it off.. the easiest way is to do it the long way and just push the needle straight through it. dont worry about breaking the o-ring, you dont need to put it back on.

then just pull the fan apart, using some white lithium grease put it back together..

redzep

jr. member

Activity: 44

Merit: 1

Hi

what are your thoughts on these fans to replace Stock fan, bit pricey i know but don't fancy running these with no fan with summer coming up

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071W6JZV8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&th=1

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a4x10-5v

40x40x10 5v currently out of Stock but i think they do about 8 CFM

have 4 MLD2 total, 2 each on Anker® 60W 7-Port USB 3.0 Data Hub

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VE4UJD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

but 1 MLD has not been very happy the last few weeks with hashing go down to 2.5 if frequency was set above 800 and today it sounds like a rocket ship so taken it out of hub
until i get a replacement fan, i'm also running one 120cm USB fan to help airflow

Thanks

mtntraders

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

jstefanop,

Is it ok to use your photo of the MLD2 on my website to show the detail of it? I can not get a good angle and a clear shot with this camera phone I have.
Thank you

lok8nusa

member

Activity: 254

Merit: 11

Call 811 before you dig

Quote from: Finless on February 27, 2018, 01:39:10 PM

... ~ ...

So why do I need another fan? I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.

Bob

We're fighting heat, and thermal cycling.

At all times, a lower operating temperature is desirable. It reduces errors and failures, and improves device efficiency.

Keeping supplemental cooling on these reduces the range of thermal cycling. Even at lower clock speeds, a fan on the back sink will improve the lifetime of the device. When overclocked but not properly cooled (if the stick didn't die), the chips do suffer and become more prone to throwing errors. In some cases, this persists due to chip damage.

As an aside, I know that the chips in my other stick miners are designed to operate at 40C, so that's where I try to keep them (maybe a touch cooler).

NoobsGalore

newbie

Activity: 9

Merit: 0

Thanks so much guys, I grabbed a few of these just to play around with (and a few other brands as well) ,mainly to get my feet wet. Can't wait to get the big guns!!!!

Finless

newbie

Activity: 44

Merit: 0

Quote from: lennyNO on February 28, 2018, 06:12:07 AM

Quote from: Finless on February 27, 2018, 01:39:10 PM

That is 176F and I am far below it at 153F. To me this seems OK then? Even at 832 clock and 163F this is still well below 176F.

far below?? well below?? Seriously, all that is given is that the chip hasn't fried itself, just yet. Good luck! You are operating at the edge of it's operating range, and while 153F is within limits by all accounts it is seriously hot. 176F is not a safe operating limit, but a potential fry and die limit. You also have to be aware of changes in ambient temperature, if the ambient rises, so goes the chip temp. In general, even if it runs, you will shorten lifespan if it gets that hot over long time.

Quote

So why do I need another fan? I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.

When you are overclocking you are on your own, and you want to do everything reasonable to keep the babies alive. Alive==cool. 832 == overclocking. But yeah, it's not that you MUST have cooling. But you should! jstephanop wrote a good comment on this a few pages back, when one guy had 8 MLDs running at 5.5Mh/s or thereabout. You should read it. I run at 924Mhz with about 0.7%HW and ca 45C core. AND extra cooling (usb fans). Some ppl remove the stock fans --> you are on your own, even at normal clockspeeds. 10% is way too high at normal clockspeeds. You should have less than 1% at 600Mhz.

I did not say I get 10% an normal clock speed. I am below 1% at 796 but above 10% at 832. Even when they are ambient and I start up. So it's not heat related I get 10% at 832. It starts above 10% and stays that way. And I have tried increasing core voltage to .85 and still get that. PSU is 5 amp. Anyway I am running at 796 just fine on both sticks. Good enough for me. And yea in my first message I said my ambient temp of 75F during the day thus running 153F at the hottest at 796 clock. Obviously at night I am running less than 153F (about 145F).

I will consider your extra fan but reading jstephanop note, "they should run fine up to 800". And I am able to get memory voltage to .73V no problem. Core is running at .75V

I have a friend with a machine shop and he could easily make a larger rear heatsink (longer fins) but it doesn't look easy to remove the existing heatsink.

Bob

Topic: Official FutureBit Moonlander 2 Driver and Support Thread - page 49. (Read 71725 times)