Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 246. (Read 723903 times)

There are a lot of days when two-day lending offers completely swarm everything else, and somebody looking to borrow a large amount for 30 days, can only see a few offers, not the whole picture. Having a filter would not harm anybody. The options could be e.g. "all", "2-7 days" and "8-30 days". In that way, those who like the current view, could continue using it. From Bitfinex's point of view, this would be beneficial, as it helps connecting borrowers with lenders. There would still be just one orderbook, but alternative ways to view it.

>2000

random question: what would you guys consider as a "large" position in LTC on BFX?

The other reason lending rates is relatively low is that there are significant barriers to using the money for other purposes.  For instance, if I want to withdraw dollars - I need to do an international wire which has both financial and time costs.  And by the time the money has removed the interest rates might be back up again.  So a lot of money sits unused on the exchange.

Trade engine seems frozen. Can't close my short position even with a market order. WTF!

EDIT: started up again after 5 minutes or so. All ok now.

Meanwhile,

I'm going to try and use the below for calculations, still, just another step:


https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/status-bar-scientific-calculat/?src=search

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/quick-calculator/?src=search


Lenders want more loans to be taken, well if we Traders
had a "Buy All", "Sell All", basically "All In" buttons on the
Margin Trading Page that would un-doubtingly help !

Better than that, they can introduce an optional spread to be added to the FRR when placing lend offers. Something like 'Lend at FRR + 0.xx%', by doing so, you can place lends that follows the market, but ask a little more than the standard FRR.

This option will also help to avoid the undercut problem.

Nick.

I agree, it would be very helpful!

Is this "Feature Request"
too difficult, this reminds me of BtcChina
having to take a calculator to figure out how
many BTC one can buy with funds on hand,
Even QT-Trader has a "All In" / Buy All / Sell All
button, it's really needed on the Margin Trading Page,
Really slowing me down.

The beautiful thing is: You can't manipulate the system and gain from it! Sure, you could provide a lot of funds at very low or very high rates, maybe even to yourself. But you'll lose out on real fees from real people if you would instead provide liquidity to them, andyou always pay some percentage to the platform. There won't be that much more variable rate liquidity out there than fixed rate. In fact, I guess there's more fixed than variable rate.

Finally, noone's forcing anybody. If the variable rate is too low for your taste, put up a fixed offer for a higher rate. Easy. If you're not too far from the consensus of the other providers, your offer will be taken up eventually. If everybody else believes a much lower rate is acceptable, well, then you're out of luck for now..

It's always both sides anyway - a higher variable rate, or fixed rate, doesn't mean that the takers agree to that and take the offers.

Ente

Exactly that.
Sure, from your side, as a liquidity provider, it's bad rates.
I, as a liquidity taker, like the rates.

It's whatever 'the market' decides. I see no need for manipulating this anywhere.

If the rates were higher, in these bearish times, I would stop taking liquidity altogether and close my position. This would free a lot of liquidity, lowering the average rate.

Besides: 30% p.a. was the regular rate back then too, when the market was calm. Now, the market is pretty awful for going long. 30% isn't that bad, for having virtually no exchangerate risk.

Also, I don't see any need to add filters or different views. All info is there: rate, fixed/variable, time. It's even sorted by rate. I see with one look what the current rates are, and naturally the lowest rates are for the lowest runtime. Heck, when entering a too high offer, I automatically take the lowest offers until I have all funds! With the right runtime too.
What's there that would need fixing? It's all working well!

Ente

The flash return rate option is anything but market, and how much money is currently at the flash return rate?  If it's a lot, then that means the interest rate is determined by the few who lend / borrow at fixed rate.  Here are my proposals once again for changing flash return rate option.

Treat it like a market order, it'll hit everything on the "liquidity request" until there's nothing left with unfilled amount returned.
Completely cancel that option, one must lend at at fixed rate (my preferred approach).
A limited version of above, flash return rate is only available as long as it compose less than 10% of the lending market. (you want 90% turn out rate in the 'vote' for interest rate)
Re-do the FRR calculation, instead of calculating base on all fixed rate loan, the top 10% and the bottom 10% of fixed rate loans are ignored for calculation purposes to avoid manipulation, and borrower at FRR needs to pay some markup base on BTC / USD volatility and lending duration.

It's basic economics guys, the rate is dictated by the market. It will always find it's level where it is both low enough for traders and high enough for lenders. That level will constantly be shifting.

I agree this would be good. I'm sure flash return rate is convenient for those who can't log in often. However, lately the flash return rate pool has been close to 1 million USD, and that completely clogs the market. Your only way is to undercut the FRR, which drives the rate even lower.

Removing the FRR (even temporarily) + my suggestion about the rate filter, would hopefully bring the market back to balance. I don't think the rates we had during Christmas (>1%) are healthy, but this 0.09% is another extreme. The P2P lending idea itself is brilliant, it just needs some fine tuning.

I once again advocate for removing the flash return rate option, it is the main driver for depressed lending rate, and used for manipulation, this is not good for bitfinex itself (which I wrote about before).  High lending rate both drives fees from the lending itself and trading, you can't hold a position at 100%.  With lending rate below 30%, it's not enough to compensate the risk for lenders.

I have a question about the BTC swaps. I have some used in positions and I have just taken some further BTC swaps at a cheaper rate. The amount of BTC is the same. If I close my swaps used in a margin position, will this close my positions too or will the positions automatically switch to use the unused swaps to cover themselves?

Edit: In addition, why is the amount of my borrowed BTC, not equal to the size of my BTC postion?

Thanks

Mark

That is a good idea. Filtering would be much better as everyone can see the time frames for borrowing and lending.

My guess is, margin traders got burned badly on Feb. 10th. Almost all of them were forced out of their positions, some traders wiped out completely. Now the swap market is damaged, because of lack of borrowers. No borrowers -> some lenders, including me, will find greener pastures. Today's 0.09% swap rate is about 30% annualized. Faced with that, I think I'll try my hand with stock picking instead.

A similar crash took place in another margin trading platform, BTC-E. IMO, the point was to force margin traders out of their positions, and buy back at cheaper prices. Bitfinex should protect their clients and their business against this kind of 'predatory trading', and prevent the biggest flash crashes. Many stock exchanges and futures markets automatically freeze trading, when the prices fall a certain amount. A five minute automatic freeze if the market falls e.g. 20% in five minutes, could prevent these manipulated crashes from happening.

Another problem with the swaps is, there is an imbalance between time frames. Borrowers want 30 days, lenders offer 2 days. This is not a problem in itself, but when they're placed on the same orderbook, the supply and demand do not meet. Two-day lenders are happy with whatever return, while those willing to commit capital for 30 days, naturally want more. Therefore, Bitfinex should enable filtering swap offers, e.g. 'less than a week' and 'longer than a week'. In this way the borrowers would get more realistic picture as to what kind of rates they need to pay. I made a sample of what it could look like. By clicking '8 -30 days', it would only show those offers.

http://i.imgur.com/1LyYJpw.png

Yeah, I have to agree.

We don't need another cryptsy repeat we need a working exchange.

Fix the system before you add to it.

NO

All the shit with glitched trading that happened a couple of weeks ago in the LTC markets shows that BFX is very far from ready to push even more currencies. Let them work out the bugs in the current system before risking piling more bugs with more currencies.