oh Arbitrage, where art thou | Bitcointalksearch.org

MatDerKater

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 15, 2017, 08:29:03 AM

Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 15, 2017, 08:16:54 AM

and on top of that (in my opinion) you have to trust two different exchanges with your money which is twice the risk

Exchange risk is THE biggest risk in the bitcoin space. More people have lost money due to an exchange going bust (Mt Gox, Mintpal, Cryptsy etc) than for any other reason.

Or from the exchange simply just stealing from it's customers.....Kraken, Bitfinex.

wxa7115

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

I am watching the price on both bitstamp and bitfinex (have no money nor bitcoin in either Sad

) and i see bitfinex is pulling up towards the $1200 meanwhile bitstamp is pulling it down towards the $1150

so what the hell is going on over on these two excahnges! and why nobody is doing any arbitrage trading.

BullFinex: $1191
bearstamp: $1147-$1159

Because at the moment you cannot do withdrawals in USD dollars so it s very risky to try anything like that in an exchange that is currently having problems to fulfill its obligations, I think it is better to stay away from this since this is one of the biggest risk when you arb to not get your money back because of scam.

alani123

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No fast transfers between exchanges, no good liquidity at Finex and withdrawal issues too. Not that hard to explain.

Rahar02

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 15, 2017, 09:18:08 AM

Quote from: stompix on April 15, 2017, 08:34:54 AM

And after a long agonizing wait , finally the arbitrage answered your prayers.
Bithack is at 1207 and the bitswamp at 1179.

Well, is still only 28$ left.

If you move around a few thousand coins it looks attractive but such a buy won't mean you'll get a 28k discount.
You could only buy 465 coins (right now) on swamp to reach bitfinex price on.. worth it???

well reading the topic and specially the link that alyssa85 gave to reddit post and some more research that i did yesterday, it is actually because of the fiat withdrawal fears.
in which case being worth it is not the profit you get but based on whether you can really take it out or not.

and i believe the price drop below $1220 was because of this to begin with.
and then the reason why bitstamp is lower because of the additional sell pressure than normal.

We don't know for sure but withdrawal problem is a big deal for traders. Maybe some people already tried it and many thoughts that not worth, it just slightly different right now as the price already recover again. But, people fears of losing bitcoin won't store theirs in an exchange due to past events.

cellard

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

I am watching the price on both bitstamp and bitfinex (have no money nor bitcoin in either Sad

) and i see bitfinex is pulling up towards the $1200 meanwhile bitstamp is pulling it down towards the $1150

so what the hell is going on over on these two excahnges! and why nobody is doing any arbitrage trading.

BullFinex: $1191
bearstamp: $1147-$1159

There was a lot of price difference in OkCoin too when the PBOC thing happening. I dont understand why Bitfinex is leading the market but I think people dont do arbitraging because it takes too much time to move the bitcoins from one place to another and this would lead to losing money.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: stompix on April 15, 2017, 10:19:14 AM

Quote from: cpfreeplz on April 15, 2017, 09:21:20 AM

Yup looks like bitfinex is insolvent. I'd stay away from (false) arbitrage because you'll never get your money back out.

Well, it has been insolvent in 2014 in 2015, once more in 2016 and now in 2017.
Any real proofs it will happen now? No speculation by trolls here or on reddit!

99.999% of the time, it is drama and nothing more. specially if you read it on bitcointalk or reddit. and it is utter bullshit if you read it on a bitcoin news site Cheesy

but the problem is that you never have any proof until it is too late. exchanges are not safe, they have never been and they never will become safe unless they become regulated and get licenses or things like that. and that is true about all of them not just bitfinex.

people are busy with bitfinex and kraken or bitstamp may turn into gox.
it is simple: we got hacked : file for bankruptcy : users are f**

stompix

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Quote from: cpfreeplz on April 15, 2017, 09:21:20 AM

Yup looks like bitfinex is insolvent. I'd stay away from (false) arbitrage because you'll never get your money back out.

Well, it has been insolvent in 2014 in 2015, once more in 2016 and now in 2017.

Any real proofs it will happen now? No speculation by trolls here or on reddit!

zahra4577

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Quote from: el kaka22 on April 14, 2017, 09:33:22 AM

Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

I am watching the price on both bitstamp and bitfinex (have no money nor bitcoin in either Sad

) and i see bitfinex is pulling up towards the $1200 meanwhile bitstamp is pulling it down towards the $1150

Before this till last January bitfinex was leading and bitstamp just followed it, after China's heavy regulations I found both of these exchanges got trading with less than $10 differences. But suddenly situations gone back to what was happening 3 months back, in wild assumptions again Chinese players get into action ?

Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

why nobody is doing any arbitrage trading.

We cannot be sure, it is already happening that is the reason prices converges over time. At the same time, like many folks shared here, it is too hard to rotate funds across exchanges so traders may ignore opportunities too.

With bitcoin delayed confirmation and exchanges doing manual withdrawal,prices may suddenly change rendering any arbitrage not profitable.
Arbitrage can be successful when movement of coins is either in real time or take least possible time.

cpfreeplz

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Yup looks like bitfinex is insolvent. I'd stay away from (false) arbitrage because you'll never get your money back out.

BitcoinHodler

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Quote from: stompix on April 15, 2017, 08:34:54 AM

And after a long agonizing wait , finally the arbitrage answered your prayers.
Bithack is at 1207 and the bitswamp at 1179.

Well, is still only 28$ left.

If you move around a few thousand coins it looks attractive but such a buy won't mean you'll get a 28k discount.
You could only buy 465 coins (right now) on swamp to reach bitfinex price on.. worth it???

well reading the topic and specially the link that alyssa85 gave to reddit post and some more research that i did yesterday, it is actually because of the fiat withdrawal fears.
in which case being worth it is not the profit you get but based on whether you can really take it out or not.

and i believe the price drop below $1220 was because of this to begin with.
and then the reason why bitstamp is lower because of the additional sell pressure than normal.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

And after a long agonizing wait , finally the arbitrage answered your prayers.
Bithack is at 1207 and the bitswamp at 1179.

Well, is still only 28$ left.

If you move around a few thousand coins it looks attractive but such a buy won't mean you'll get a 28k discount.
You could only buy 465 coins (right now) on swamp to reach bitfinex price on.. worth it???

alyssa85

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 15, 2017, 08:16:54 AM

and on top of that (in my opinion) you have to trust two different exchanges with your money which is twice the risk

Exchange risk is THE biggest risk in the bitcoin space. More people have lost money due to an exchange going bust (Mt Gox, Mintpal, Cryptsy etc) than for any other reason.

BitcoinHodler

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HODLing is an art, not just a word...

thanks for all the answers.

Quote from: onemanatatime on April 14, 2017, 09:28:08 AM

Arbitrage seems like the most straightforward type of trade to make. But apparently according to slippage and exchange rates and what not, I understand that it is actually not as easy to pull of in practice as in theory.

Anyone have experience?

well i am too lazy and too scared to do something like Arbitrage trading. but i have done some virtual-on-paper-calculations about it and most of the times it is not possible because of the fees and the spread.

on rare occasions when the difference is big the profit is possible but it is very small that is not worth the effort.

and on top of that (in my opinion) you have to trust two different exchanges with your money which is twice the risk

LittleBitFunny

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

I am watching the price on both bitstamp and bitfinex (have no money nor bitcoin in either Sad

) and i see bitfinex is pulling up towards the $1200 meanwhile bitstamp is pulling it down towards the $1150

so what the hell is going on over on these two excahnges! and why nobody is doing any arbitrage trading.

BullFinex: $1191
bearstamp: $1147-$1159

Arbitrage is only practical when you consider the spread and fees as well.

It's a bit strange that Bitstamp is usually lower than most other exchanges, but arbitrage trading is pretty impractical because of the large spread and fees that'll take place when actually transferring currency between each exchange (especially fiat).

alyssa85

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The spread is now about $46. There are discussing it on the daily bitcoinmarkets thread on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/65afwu/daily_discussion_friday_april_14_2017/

Be careful people - for those of us who have been around the block a few times, this feels very much like Mt gox.

gentlemand

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 14, 2017, 10:43:27 AM

My advice: don't arb, don't put any money in bitfinex - this is how the Mt Gox problems started (they couldn't process fiat withdrawals).

Indeed. When a spread of this scale opens up it's a clear indication of a problem that isn't being solved. If it was simple arbitrage then it would be gone in a few hours as thousands exploited it.

alyssa85

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

I am watching the price on both bitstamp and bitfinex (have no money nor bitcoin in either Sad

) and i see bitfinex is pulling up towards the $1200 meanwhile bitstamp is pulling it down towards the $1150

so what the hell is going on over on these two excahnges! and why nobody is doing any arbitrage trading.

BullFinex: $1191
bearstamp: $1147-$1159

Bitfinex is having problems with fiat withdrawals. Wells Fargo blocked them, then bitfinex announced they were suing Wells Fargo, then they announced they were withdrawing the suit.

The price is rising on bitfinex because people are buying bitcoin in order to withdraw.

My advice: don't arb, don't put any money in bitfinex - this is how the Mt Gox problems started (they couldn't process fiat withdrawals).

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

By the sounds of it they don't know if and when you'll be able to withdraw USD. You can withdraw Swiss Francs and HKD and they're bringing other pairs in the coming weeks.

I wonder whether the volume will make a straight switch over or whether people will shop elsewhere.

el kaka22

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

I am watching the price on both bitstamp and bitfinex (have no money nor bitcoin in either Sad

) and i see bitfinex is pulling up towards the $1200 meanwhile bitstamp is pulling it down towards the $1150

Before this till last January bitfinex was leading and bitstamp just followed it, after China's heavy regulations I found both of these exchanges got trading with less than $10 differences. But suddenly situations gone back to what was happening 3 months back, in wild assumptions again Chinese players get into action ?

Quote from: BitcoinHodler on April 14, 2017, 05:39:50 AM

why nobody is doing any arbitrage trading.

We cannot be sure, it is already happening that is the reason prices converges over time. At the same time, like many folks shared here, it is too hard to rotate funds across exchanges so traders may ignore opportunities too.

onemanatatime

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Arbitrage seems like the most straightforward type of trade to make. But apparently according to slippage and exchange rates and what not, I understand that it is actually not as easy to pull of in practice as in theory.

Anyone have experience?

Topic: oh Arbitrage, where art thou (Read 1095 times)