OkEx Korea removes all privacy coins

magneto

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Quote from: jjbanks994 on September 18, 2019, 12:26:47 PM

Five privacy coins including monero, dash, zcash, horizen and super bitcoin are to be delisted from the exchange. Apparently the Korean government has asked crypto exchanges to implement the FATF guidelines which include the travel rule.

It will be interesting to see if exchanges choose to implement TRISA which is CipherTrace's solution to the FATF policy rather than delisting them.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

https://tokenpost.com/Crypto-exchange-OKEx-Korea-to-remove-all-privacy-coins-including-monero-dash-zcash-over-FATFs-travel-rule-3443

It's indicative of a larger trend within crypto, which is the trend of regulation and much tighter restrictions imposed by governments and intergovernment organisations.

That's a part of the reason why people's tastes have shifted towards altcoins which have real life implications as opposed to privacy alone, and also a huge reason why the price of Monero, ZEC, and Dash have continued to slip despite BTC's bull runs earlier in the year.

Don't be surprised if other exchanges, even Binance, start delisting these anonymous coins one by one as they become more "compliant" to international regulations and standards. Unfortunately, this is one of the prices to pay for more matured regulatory measures.

robelneo

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Quote from: tk808 on September 22, 2019, 01:17:58 PM

A precedent has been set, many exchanges will eventually follow suit in delisting privacy-based coins, it's not a matter of if now, it's a matter of when. In addition, it's not unreasonable to speculate that delisting these coins will also save most of these exchanges from illegal practices or reluctance to take action against them.

This is ultimately what a CEX is, a body to be governed by governments.

I second that but I hope it's not going to happen and no more exchange will follow what they've done, all these exchanges are not yet existed and yet these privacy coins are already in existence, they did not consider all these coin's followers and communities, anyway I don't it's these coins lost, these coins contribute a lot of volume in every exchange where they are listed.

Kupid002

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Quote from: Mike Mayor on October 01, 2019, 07:02:28 PM

They want to pass laws but they are criminals themselves? The asked my KYC for so-called "suspicious activity" they just locked my account and demanded my KYC like a bunch of thugs.
KYC does not protect anyone I lost money because it was badly implemented. People who should not be asking for it are and it is ridiculous. The USA must keep their crappy laws to themselves. Not all of us live in the USA and have an insane government. I would be afraid to live in the USA, to be honest. I would be afraid the police break into my house and force themselves in and arrest me for using crypto or basically doing what they don't like.

When the criminals start using KYC then it has failed. It reminds me of drug laws.

You should not use exchange that follow US laws if you dont want to follow what are requiring you to do.
There are exchange that dont required KYC with a minimum widrawal limit.
I am also affraid of the KYC thing but its depends on what exchange it is.

Mike Mayor

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They want to pass laws but they are criminals themselves? The asked my KYC for so-called "suspicious activity" they just locked my account and demanded my KYC like a bunch of thugs.
KYC does not protect anyone I lost money because it was badly implemented. People who should not be asking for it are and it is ridiculous. The USA must keep their crappy laws to themselves. Not all of us live in the USA and have an insane government. I would be afraid to live in the USA, to be honest. I would be afraid the police break into my house and force themselves in and arrest me for using crypto or basically doing what they don't like.

When the criminals start using KYC then it has failed. It reminds me of drug laws.

desticy

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At the end, regulation knocked on the door of the crypto market with sufficient force. In view of such news, thoughts about the Libra coin come to mind, a fully centralized coin is the future in a fully regulated crypto market. It is interesting how events will develop in the future, because not all exchanges will agree to remove anonymous coins. But the fact that some of the largest removed these coins still means a lot. Regulation can greatly change the market, but for it to work, it must be legislatively higher than the level of individual countries.
The fact that the Okex exchange had to remove part of the coins without any additional penalties already says that everything is okay with the exchange, at least for now.

jerrison

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Quote from: jjbanks994 on September 18, 2019, 12:26:47 PM

Five privacy coins including monero, dash, zcash, horizen and super bitcoin are to be delisted from the exchange. Apparently the Korean government has asked crypto exchanges to implement the FATF guidelines which include the travel rule.

It will be interesting to see if exchanges choose to implement TRISA which is CipherTrace's solution to the FATF policy rather than delisting them.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

https://tokenpost.com/Crypto-exchange-OKEx-Korea-to-remove-all-privacy-coins-including-monero-dash-zcash-over-FATFs-travel-rule-3443

curently, Nations are trying to regulate the crypto space as it has not been the expectation of the users, the experiences most of them have gone thorugh in the spirit of investors. Causing exchanges to delist coins that have privacy rule is like a first step towards the regulatory approach.

Febo

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Quote from: qwizzie on September 22, 2019, 12:12:37 PM

Quote from: Febo on September 22, 2019, 10:36:04 AM

Quote from: qwizzie on September 20, 2019, 11:28:40 AM

I think the KYC rules apply on customeraccount level and the FATF travel rule applies on transaction level.

LOL

Transaction level? The exchange totally know where they sent coins. They have view key. FATF travel rule is about person informations not about transaction. Just read it. Exchange customer that is KYCed clearly know where to whome he sent his coins and who send them to him and can normal tell that to anyone that is curious about it.

Are you telling me that exchanges have the ability to directly connect senders and receivers to Monero transactions? Senders and receivers that are suppose to be shielded on-chain ? I thought only Monero users can view their own transactions? (if they remember to which address they sent it). Are you telling me if someone hacks an exchange, they can obtain sender and receiver information about Monero transactions ? Thereby completely de-anomyzing Monero transactions ?

No I am telling you transactions have nothing to do with FATF travel rule. And I told you that exchange make the transactions themself. Exchanges are Monero users, so they totally know where they sent and where the coins come from. FATF travel rule is about persons. You can get those information only by doing proper KYC on your exchange. No matter what cyptocurrency you then use.

lumierre

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Quote from: Mrsparks on September 21, 2019, 05:49:32 PM

It's bitter to see this happening in the crypto space, crypto users are gradually being deprived of their right to select privacy coins hence the market is being compromised by things in the traditional systems of the world. Privacy coins should for no reason be delisted, I don't see anything wrong with it. The crypto space should not allow what is obtainable in the conventional world oppress our will for variety.

One of the reasons they do it is that the high-privacy cryptocurrencies are used by the criminal world more often than Bitcoin. Monero is the most popular crypto among those, who have evel intentions. Zcash is also used. However, delisting from the list of exchanges and lower prices do not slow down the development of privacy technologies in cryptocurrencies. Zcash Electric Coin released Halo, a technology that will further enhance the privacy of this crypto.

MrPiggles

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Quote from: poornamelessme on September 22, 2019, 01:26:46 PM

Quote from: tk808 on September 22, 2019, 01:17:58 PM

A precedent has been set, many exchanges will eventually follow suit in delisting privacy-based coins, it's not a matter of if now, it's a matter of when. In addition, it's not unreasonable to speculate that delisting these coins will also save most of these exchanges from illegal practices or reluctance to take action against them.

This is ultimately what a CEX is, a body to be governed by governments.

If so, it seems kind of odd for coinbase to take on Dash when it did. And I think Binance US plans to list Dash as well. I'm not saying you are wrong about other exchanges following suit, just thinking aloud how it was weird timing.

I wonder if privacy coins will adapt (if they can)? It's not like the privacy feature of Dash for instance is an absolute requirement, quite the opposite.

Recently, anonymous coins are no longer accepted in this market because these are the coins that can affect the economy, so the world government is very considerate about this issue. I think anonymous coins should only appear in Asian exchanges because this is the best place for these coins to work best. I personally don't like European exchanges because there are too many legal issues there

poornamelessme

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Quote from: tk808 on September 22, 2019, 01:33:01 PM

Quote from: poornamelessme on September 22, 2019, 01:26:46 PM

Quote from: tk808 on September 22, 2019, 01:17:58 PM

A precedent has been set, many exchanges will eventually follow suit in delisting privacy-based coins, it's not a matter of if now, it's a matter of when. In addition, it's not unreasonable to speculate that delisting these coins will also save most of these exchanges from illegal practices or reluctance to take action against them.

This is ultimately what a CEX is, a body to be governed by governments.

If so, it seems kind of odd for coinbase to take on Dash when it did. And I think Binance US plans to list Dash as well. I'm not saying you are wrong about other exchanges following suit, just thinking aloud how it was weird timing.

I wonder if privacy coins will adapt (if they can)? It's not like the privacy feature of Dash for instance is an absolute requirement, quite the opposite.

Dash is quite different overall in terms of privacy. I just read a post this morning that will help sum up why this is the case and has been the reigning thought for most.

Reference link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52525069

It seems like Dash shouldn't have been lumped in with those other coins and delisted then. It's not so different than BTC really. It's also a situation where an exchange could do some blockchain lookup magic if they wanted to, and simply kick out traders who made use of the privacy function for past transactions, rather than completely delist the coin for everyone.

Not sure how Monero and similar coins would adapt, however, unless they kind of redo most of their code, or I guess move onto decentralized exchanges.

tk808

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Quote from: poornamelessme on September 22, 2019, 01:26:46 PM

Quote from: tk808 on September 22, 2019, 01:17:58 PM

A precedent has been set, many exchanges will eventually follow suit in delisting privacy-based coins, it's not a matter of if now, it's a matter of when. In addition, it's not unreasonable to speculate that delisting these coins will also save most of these exchanges from illegal practices or reluctance to take action against them.

This is ultimately what a CEX is, a body to be governed by governments.

If so, it seems kind of odd for coinbase to take on Dash when it did. And I think Binance US plans to list Dash as well. I'm not saying you are wrong about other exchanges following suit, just thinking aloud how it was weird timing.

I wonder if privacy coins will adapt (if they can)? It's not like the privacy feature of Dash for instance is an absolute requirement, quite the opposite.

Dash is quite different overall in terms of privacy. I just read a post this morning that will help sum up why this is the case and has been the reigning thought for most.

Reference link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52525069

poornamelessme

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Quote from: tk808 on September 22, 2019, 01:17:58 PM

A precedent has been set, many exchanges will eventually follow suit in delisting privacy-based coins, it's not a matter of if now, it's a matter of when. In addition, it's not unreasonable to speculate that delisting these coins will also save most of these exchanges from illegal practices or reluctance to take action against them.

This is ultimately what a CEX is, a body to be governed by governments.

If so, it seems kind of odd for coinbase to take on Dash when it did. And I think Binance US plans to list Dash as well. I'm not saying you are wrong about other exchanges following suit, just thinking aloud how it was weird timing.

I wonder if privacy coins will adapt (if they can)? It's not like the privacy feature of Dash for instance is an absolute requirement, quite the opposite.

tk808

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A precedent has been set, many exchanges will eventually follow suit in delisting privacy-based coins, it's not a matter of if now, it's a matter of when. In addition, it's not unreasonable to speculate that delisting these coins will also save most of these exchanges from illegal practices or reluctance to take action against them.

This is ultimately what a CEX is, a body to be governed by governments.

qwizzie

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Quote from: Shepard777 on September 22, 2019, 12:29:00 PM

It’s a pity that exchanges are already starting to do everything to please regulators, binance made a separate exchange for Americans, it still didn’t go, but excluding anonymous cryptocurrencies from the list is already too much, because the main goal of cryptocurrencies is anonymity, and this destroys it

I don't think Satoshi had anonymity in mind when he/she/them created Bitcoin. I think the main goal was introducing a new trustless, peer to peer, decentralized payment system network to compete at some level with the traditional fiat system. A new system that happened to have (pseudo) anonymity.

Shepard777

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It’s a pity that exchanges are already starting to do everything to please regulators, binance made a separate exchange for Americans, it still didn’t go, but excluding anonymous cryptocurrencies from the list is already too much, because the main goal of cryptocurrencies is anonymity, and this destroys it

qwizzie

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Quote from: Febo on September 22, 2019, 10:36:04 AM

Quote from: qwizzie on September 20, 2019, 11:28:40 AM

I think the KYC rules apply on customeraccount level and the FATF travel rule applies on transaction level.

LOL

Transaction level? The exchange totaly know where they sent coins. They have view key. FATF travel rule is about person informations not about transaction. Just read it. Exchange customer that is KYCed clearly know where to whome he sent his coins and who send them to him and can normal tell that to anyone that is curious about it.

Are you telling me that exchanges have the ability to directly connect senders and receivers to Monero transactions? Senders and receivers that are suppose to be shielded on-chain ? I thought only Monero users can view their own transactions? (if they remember to which address they sent it). Are you telling me if someone hacks an exchange, they can obtain sender and receiver information about Monero transactions ? Thereby completely de-anomyzing Monero transactions ?

I don't think exchanges have that kind of information, they only have KYC information on their customers and are now required to pass additional sender and receiver information from transactions that go through their exchange, which will simply not be possible with certain cryptocurrencies (specially those that shield that information on-chain even from them).

Anyways, FATF is clearly setting up a global monitoring system, where suspicious looking transactions can be flagged and checked for sender and receiver information, without FATF having to go back to exchanges to request that sort of information. Sort of a global operating upstreaming data information system.

Febo

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Quote from: qwizzie on September 20, 2019, 11:28:40 AM

I think the KYC rules apply on customeraccount level and the FATF travel rule applies on transaction level.

LOL

Transaction level? The exchange totaly know where they sent coins. They have view key. FATF travel rule is about person informations not about transaction. Just read it. Exchange customer that is KYCed clearly know where to whome he sent his coins and who send them to him and can normal tell that to anyone that is curious about it.

Mrsparks

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It's bitter to see this happening in the crypto space, crypto users are gradually being deprived of their right to select privacy coins hence the market is being compromised by things in the traditional systems of the world. Privacy coins should for no reason be delisted, I don't see anything wrong with it. The crypto space should not allow what is obtainable in the conventional world oppress our will for variety.

vladimirhf

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It is a natural move of centralized exchanges as regulations increase around the world. Either way, decentralized exchanges are ideal for those seeking privacy. The only problem is that may impact the prices, at least in the short term, as the trading volume decreases.

serjent05

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Quote from: irixo10 on September 21, 2019, 03:41:01 PM

This is not encouraging and I fear other exchanges might start taking this path. Centralized exchanges are always bound by one regulations or the other, so I think they are trying to respect one law or the other. In my own opinion, I think it is time for DEX to improve so as to offer services which suited for these privacy coins should in case the worst happens. One thing is sure, privacy coins aren't going anywhere, they have come to stay.

I think it is but I believe even DEXes are bound by law, it is just a matter of time before regulation hit these DEXes. Regarding the delisting of privacy coins on centralized exchange, it had been an issue for sometime now, and it seems these privacy coins will be purge out of the normal cryptocurrency market and will be forced to be traded underground were regulation cannot reach.

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