Topic: On Ordinals: Where do you stand? - page 23. (Read 9119 times)

doomad yet again you are looking like an idiot. your latest script to promote continuation of spam due to santa 2014 is another fail on your part
people were not spamming every block with ascii art. satoshi didnt not spam every coinbase with political statements

it was not a big deal because their occurances were rare and devs thought it was not at a intolerable level of spam to be worthy of dealing with.

realise that what is happening now is spam because they are doing it in every block its becoming a problem that is affecting other users.
yep its a spam attack. rather than a random act rarely

no one cared when it was a couple tx a year.
it becomes a problem when its in every block taking up space that could have been used to fit in several other peoples actual payments of real bitcoin utility

i do laugh though how you want the scamming and bloat to continue because you think no one complained of the rare events of a decade ago.

there is no comparison to those rare events and whats been happening in 2023
go learn whats actually happening and stop trying lame excuses to find ways to think of to make it seem like the spam attack should continue and not be fixed

yes people put junk on the blockchain rarely. but not to the extent of 4mb of junk so no one cared.
yes people put junk on the blockchain. but not to the extent of every block so no one cared.

its now a problem. thats gone beyond acceptance

..
i know you are trying your hardest to pretend to be american and wanting the american dream so lets word it like this

guns are not a good thing. they cause damage
but when 99.99999% of people dont abuse guns affecting their community every 10 minutes. guns are tolerated
but if everyone started shooting every day. killing off normal daily activity in their neighbourhood. then guns need to be dealt with


that christmas art in 2014 did not cause a fee war of fee rises it didnt cause any controversy.
compared to whats happening in 2023

and one last thing.
i know your not smart enough to actually do research to find the ascii art example. your not that kind of person to spend time looking for things.
so whomever it is handing you examples of things for you to then use as part of your scripts. tell them to get a better job. and then get a better job yourself

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now here is some reasons why the spam needs to be handled
unlike santa art in 2014, ordinals:
takes up more space per block for non bitcoin purpose
the content causes negative effects on all bitcoiners
the content is a demonstration of a scam.

and here is the main point
much like the fears of putting illegal porn on the network, having a scammy pretend ICO within bitcoin makes bitcoin fall into the jurisdiction of the SEC wanting to stop scams, boiler room investments, etc... meaning they are more likely now to want to stop bitcoin functionality.
luckily so far ordinals are just a couple idiots spamming. and not a wide community of duped victims actually buying the scam. but if it became a thing of mass idiots getting scammed buying this crap. it would lead to alot more pressure on the SEC to limit bitcoin utility. (blacklisting more coins. getting exchanges to stop accepting bitcoin at the extreme)

these ordinals are an entire different scenario compared to santa 2014 ascii art

Either you're failing to understand written English once again, or you've kept very quiet over the years about your views on ascii art being stored in the chain.  And since keeping quiet definitely isn't one of your natural talents, I'll assume it's just your usual lack of literacy skills.  Let's try again:

Please provide evidence which demonstrates that you gave a shit about ascii art embedded in the blockchain in 2014.  Or admit you're a hypocrite.  Pick one.

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//EDIT:

I see you've opted for the path of accepting double standards.


The ONLY difference is that someone found a way to monetise it.  You said it was all about non-transactional data.  I showed you some non-transactional data that happened long before ordinals existed and you suddenly moved the goalposts to deflect from how much of a total hypocrite you are.

domad you continual idiot. YOU are the one saying its acceptable
im the one saying its not.

you are so broken in your mindset you forgot which side you are sponsored to fight
its YOU that keeps saying devs should not close the exploits, should not turn of the opcodes that exploits use.

This ascii art from 2014 is also non-functional data:



source: https://decrypt.co/55642/the-5-best-secret-messages-hidden-on-the-bitcoin-blockchain

Is this an acceptable use of the blockchain in your view?  If everyone had been using Bitcoin in this way for the last 10 years, the blockchain would clearly be a lot larger than it already is.  Again, we need to establish where the line is to be drawn.

doomad those idiots dont have idea's they steal idea's off others..

i have been spouting my opinions before they were even a thing and you know it.

they are trying to grab onto people that dont like core but dont want ethereum either.
there are many many many people that dont like core for many reasons so dont think it should be pidgeon holed into a ver/wright camp.. instead learn whats wrong with core. take the ass kissing out of your mind. and learn

core do have their failures. they are humans not gods.. ill repeat that because you treat them as the latter
they are humans not gods

when you finally realise that they have enabled exploits and do moderate(censor) and mandate(censor) and that they now dont want to fix their holes. you might see their actions are worse then the scripts they tell you to recite.. if you were truly a bitcoiner and not a subnetter you would not be sucking up to any human. and instead wanting the code to do its intended purpose and realise the stuff they allow has been done to mess with the network

bitcoin had a great purpose which is why i stick with legacy and funnily enough a few of the devs that are telling you to promote your scammy stuff themselves stick with legacy transactions too. so you are definetely being duped into yor rhetoric or paid for it

so instead of taking dev comments and project manager comments as gospel to sell the schemes you promote. how about read the underlying code, read the real immutable blockdata, apply some logic, common sense and math. and realise what you are promoting from bad scripts passed to you. maybe break away and for once actually stop sounding like you are an ass kisser trying to get a promotion

..
as for "text in the blockchain"
well yes its been around along time my disputes about ordinals v2(memes) is the upto 4mb of the junk
my dispute about the 56-80 bytes average of ordinals v3(brc) is that its non functional data

and in both cases they are scams because they are presented as being nft things. but in reality they are not. they have no proof of transfer mechanisms that actually work

its like he is making sure his schemes are broke so he can see how many idiots fall for his scams. maybe create a blacklist of idiots to then sell to other scammers so they can scam more idiots.

..
as for being productive. there are fixes and i have even suggested some the thing is that posts get deleted and idiots like you that kiss as core devs dont want fixes being presented to core,. you want core to carry on making exploits becasue you treat them as central authority and no one should question them(a big hypocritical moment to your pretend stance about being against central authority yet adoring cores central point of failure and its hierarchy of control measures)

The same could be said of you.  I often wonder if you're sponsored by Ver or Wright given how often you espouse their ideals.

Ordinals are generally worthless crap.  I'm not disputing that.  But again, text has been added to the blockchain, (additional data unrelated to transactional value) since the genesis block.  Most users accept that.  So it strikes me as double standard when they say that text data is acceptable, but other data is not.  I'd like to make sure everyone is at ease with that double standard before we go getting ahead of ourselves.

Can you get the ball rolling as to why you think this hypocrisy is justified?  Or are you just going to bitch about it some more rather than contribute anything productive?

doomad you are getting desperate in your sponsored advertising.. i know you are losing fans so you occassionally make a post to say ordinals are crap to try and win some loyalty.. but then you go back to sponsored scripts..

i do hope your contract is up soon and they see how much your campaigning has failed and they dont renew another season of your scripts.

we all know that LN mixers and ordinals are sub-par, low standard. disfunctional services. heck you cant really even describe them as a feature. they are not doing what they promise.

the exist. but this does not mean they are part of of ontop of bitcoin. much like CEX are not bitcoin or part of nor ontop of. they are around, at the borders, outside, offramp

there are many many many descriptors for positioning. but you and your buddies wanting to endlessly only want to use the ontop of. is false

ordinals does not build ontop of existing protocols/principles. ordinals developers do not even know the basics of the principles of bitcoin nor the mechanisms within bitcoin at play. heck it uses an exploit not a main feature of bitcoin.

For those who think Ordinals are a step too far, where would you draw the line?  Would you like to prevent all non-transactional data from being included?  Or is it just images and other media that you would like blocked?

Bitcoin has a long history of other data being included alongside transactions.  Would any of those examples be considered unacceptable usage by today's standards?

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If it's not built at protocol level, then surely it's built on top?  No?  "Protocol adjacent", perhaps?   

Or, if it would appease Lord frankenfuhrer1, we could say that third parties are leveraging Bitcoin's blockchain for their own purposes?  Unless, like everything else you incessantly whine about, you're expecting everyone to unquestioningly adopt your nomenclature, without argument?    

gotta love everyone using the "on top" subliminal to try to pretend things are better, above, newer, an upgrade etc.
bitcoin is ontop everything else is side or below, underneath, sub

using forum speak(something some only know) yep bitcoin is the main topic. all other things are sub topics

ordinals v3(brc) is not even a feature or functional thing. using forum speak. trash/scam board

> doesn't understand how system works
> tried to apply own rules to system they don't understand
> "See? It doesn't work!!!"

Meanwhile actual users of said system are perfectly content with it.




Its funny you haven't realized crying "OooDinALs aTTaCk!!!1" for the 65th time will have zilch effect on the issue.

lets take one example

ordinals v3 tried to pretend to send some brc to a legacy address

https://ordinals.com/tx/885441055c7bb5d1c54863e33f5c3a06e5a14cc4749cb61a9b3ff1dbe52a5bbb
{
  "p": "brc-20",
  "op": "transfer",
  "tick": "ordi",
  "amt": "100",
  "to": "1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa",
  "fee": "1337"
}

the input(utxo) that signed this was transaction
https://ordinals.com/tx/23b19e4219c70f627ab128fd04a5061200d181462b1135be3844e8ecb9ad9aeb
which had no 'ordi' amount linked to it

yep casey could not even pick the right utxo that 'mined' brc 'ordi' to then spend to the legacy address
thus there is no taint path from source to destination of brc 'ordi'

heck even when you look at the real BTC sat transfer of txid beginning 885441 even the sats dont go straight to 1A1zP address either, instead they go to bc1pxaneaf3w4d27hl2y93fuft2xk6m4u3wc4rafevc6slgd7f5tq2dqyfgy06

yep there is not even taint linkage of real sat (his ordinal v1 scheme) to his brc(ordinal v3 scheme) that works together

..
and thats without even mentioning many other flaws

if eth tokens have questionable value then what does that say about ordinals brc-20 tokens. which as you pointed out really aren't tokens at all.  it doesn't say much for them, that's for sure. 

so anytime someone "buys" some of this fake tokens the seller has to send an update to the bitcoin blockchain by making a new inscription? if that's the case then it seems like bitcoin would be swamped by this brc-20 junk which it seems like it is lately  i haven't seen a single monkey in a long time.  normally that would be good but i'm not sure in this case...

All I see here is the same nonsense and technobabble used for years by the altcoin scammers to empty newbies' pockets. Each point here was debunked a million times before about the Ordinals Attack so I'll just list the headlines:
- There are no tokens being created
- There are no rules or standards being enforced that could be referred to as "BRC20 standard"
- Each bitcoin (and satoshis) are as fungible as before and they have not magically gained any additional value. If anybody is selling them for higher prices, they are scamming people.
- The junk data spammed on the chain can not move or be transferred to someone else.

It's funny when the idiots trying to sell the Ordinals Attack haven't even checked what the attack is doing

it doesnt work from the start. its the perception of working but not the economic/logic/proof of working.. its still dead data stuck in the input script. not something that proofs to go to the output which can then be transfered

seems they took an idea i mentioned months ago about putting tx inside tx. but forgot about true proof of transfer and ownership logic.

ethereum tokens actually have transfer logic and proof. ordinals v3 does not.
ethereum tokens are not minted with an real cost(pos vs pow) so its underlying value is questionable which becomes the old addage of "given value by agreed desire of value" rather than intrinsic value(pow cost)
where as ordinals v3 are not even that. no utility or purpose not underlying cost in brc creation. so absolute no value

one saving grace is that regulators are now looking into people ICO scamming and casey will have his day one day being on the bad side of that. but the victims of his scams wont get any form of refund/compensation

99.999% of caseys ordinals v3 are not users of a large community trading. its just a couple idiots spamming

i guess it will work until it doesn't and then people will cry scam. imagine someone buying alot of tokens only to find out they're really worthless. most tokens are you know. even on ethereum.  but these ones on ordinals especially would have to be. they aren't even real. maybe someone uploads an ordinal to adjust their balance to way more. as a hack.  

and all of that twitter description is deceptive and wrong as the transfer part doesnt work
casey and his cult have no clue how data/crypto proofs. work its all a scam for the "creators" to scam people out of funds

@The0xJuan on twitter has made a thread that explains what the BRC20 standard is and what are the potential uses of this in the cryptospace.

This is a long thread. I will copy only the important information and leave the parts where he talks about bitcoin maximalists. Go to the source if you want to read all of it.



Ordinals brought a brand new sense of non-fungibility to the Bitcoin network. Sats that have numismatic value.

Ordinals inscriptions create digital artifacts that are immutable. BRC-20 standard brings fungibility to Ordinals inscriptions in the form of tokens

Yes, the BRC-20 standard can be used to create new tokens. Yes, something like $PEPE, but no quite if you’re comparing to a smart contract.

The trick is leveraging JSON data in the form of Ordinal inscriptions. JSON is an open standard file format and data interchange format.

This is where it’s interesting and differs from ERC-20

In a EVM chain, you create smart contracts that manage the token. The smart contract runs the show.

In the BRC-20 standard you store a script file in the Bitcoin network. That file attributes tokens to satoshis. This lets you transfer the tokens to other users

So instead of running a smart contract, the BRC-20 leverages on JSON data inscribed in a Ordinal. This script, with its limitations compared with a smart contract, can be used to create, mint, and transfer tokens.

All in the base layer.

This is a testament to the use cases that Ordinals theory is bringing. You can store more than JPEGs in a sat. You can store a script file to create and transfer tokens.

Source https://twitter.com/The0xJuan/status/1650970535570931712

something very strange is definitely going on that's for sure. the only inscriptions that are being made are these brc-20 token things which i don't even know what they are for. but they seem to have shut out all the monkey pictures from being uploaded. 

Even if we had these days a new peak in Ordinals activity, I'm still optimistic this fad will soon come to an end.

First let's look at the numbers: While the last days the number of Ordinals transactions was on an all-time-high, these were all very small transactions (probably this BRC-20 thingy) and thus the impact on the blockchain was not outside of the normal range since the introduction of Ordinal transactions (the important thing to look at is the "avg_vsize" and "total_vsize" parameter) and in general the total size per day is downtrending. DdmrDdmr's stats (the OrdPercentage parameter) show the same downtrending tendency. So it seems that the activity with respect to big inscriptions like pics and audio is reducing over time, and the new "peaks" are due to "sub-fads" with lower impact per transaction.

The BRC-20 "sub-fad" also shows that the NFT economy seems to be in desperate need for another "trend" to keep the money making machine going. (That we have already dozens of protocols for fungible tokens on BTC, the oldest from as early as 2012 or 2013, and they create a fad around a new, experimental one is quite funny however, but is logical, 'cause that's how fads work, it must be new to attract the intended public.)

And most important the NFT market is collapsing again after a brief relief. I believe the Ordinals NFT fad could have been the last death scream of the drowned. There will likely continue to be inscriptions but they won't impact blockchain too much.

When the fad started in February, I gave it "some months", and we're probably seing its endgame now already 3 months later I think by August/September it will be all over.

1. ordinals v1 v2 v3 are not nft. they lack many mechanisms of true proof functionality. the way i view caseys projects is a toddler using crayons(making a mess) and idiots clapping their hands thinking he is van gogh

2. LN has failed its promises and if you actually run scenarios. it bottlenecks MORE and has liquidity issues MORE the more its used. thus its a path to a deathly cliffedge. so dont put much hope into LN success. its a path of zombies walking to their second layer death. its design is bad. something new needs to be created to service the niche users that want offchain utility.... simply put, LN is not it

3. other altcoin subnetwork bridges have managed to achieve better fund reserving of bitcoin locks to then use other altcoin subnet bridges to give functionality to such value needs. yep many have given up hope of LN and are now using other bridge networks to play with value(avalanche achieved more btc locks than LN. in a third of the time too)

4. core developers already have enabled sat/kb but idiots dont want people transacting below $2 average fee and its them same idiots promoting ordinals as a positive of pushing fee's up. rather than letting a real 'natural fee market' to bring fee's down due to lowering the minimum

5. ordinal users are few and far between its been seen to be less than a dozen people all colluding together. hence why ordinals v2(memes) coincidentally all died within the same week. (if it was many random users(decentralised) you would not see this coincidental event happen, much like achieving pure 100% consensus is unnatural and instead an example of exploitation. going to 0% memes is also unnatural in a random world of decentralisation. which reveals the ordinal adoration brigade are not decentralised but instead a small group where they decided they have wasted enough of their time, at the same time.

6. bitcoins function is financial proofs of satoshi unit transfers. which come with rules that should protect it, bitcoin is not about treating one sat as different value of another, nor a meme library. nor a multi currency/token network. i do laugh when some who shout BTC=BTC then go full retard in another(sponsored) direction to try to claim one btc is worth more than another. trying to break bitcoins economics. all so they can damage bitcoins utility in so many ways that it makes people not want to use it. as thats their end game. they care more about the fame of causing controversy and being infamous for breaking things. rather than caring about the real utility of bitcoin. they are small minded idiots that dont care about bitcoin.

7. you can spot these idiots because they promote other networks and scams, they want bitcoin fee's to be expensive and they want bloat but hate people using bitcoin for normal purchases of goods and services.
those people that dislike bitcoin being used to buy coffee but happy for it to be spammed, while calling coffee purchases the unneeded spam but not wanting ordinals to be called spam