On shitcoins (Bitcoin Cash specifically)

deisik

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Quote from: mu_enrico on January 12, 2019, 06:44:58 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 11, 2019, 11:52:34 AM

In case of Bitcoin Cash things didn't stop at just stealing Bitcoin's name as they got even worse than that with Craig Wright trying to steal the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto himself. Here lies the difference between altcoins which are on their own and Bitcoin forks which are pretending to be Bitcoin, the one and only

I understand your frustration about Roger and Craig, but hey, it's about marketing and we can't stop that. We need more marketers like Andreas Antonopoulos, Ivan on Tech, etc. I'm afraid that BTC camp's marketing effort is just shit compared to BCH and BSV... We cannot win this battle with code alone.

Actually, I don't feel frustrated at all

In fact, I'm quite satisfied and content that these dudes left Bitcoin, hopefully for good. Regarding the marketing issue, now we see how it backfires when people start to realize that it was all inflated hype and no real value behind it. Roger Ver offering OpenNode (a Bitcoin payment processing company) $1.2 million to switch away from Bitcoin to Bitcoin Cash was really pathetic if true. They dance on nothing and they know it

Other than that, it is not about code or marketing as it is about utility, i.e. capacity for satisfying needs. Do you need to proselytize the US dollar? It's the same with Bitcoin. It is services which make use of it that need to be marketed in an unobtrusive and smooth way

mu_enrico

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Quote from: deisik on January 11, 2019, 11:52:34 AM

In case of Bitcoin Cash things didn't stop at just stealing Bitcoin's name as they got even worse than that with Craig Wright trying to steal the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto himself. Here lies the difference between altcoins which are on their own and Bitcoin forks which are pretending to be Bitcoin, the one and only

I understand your frustration about Roger and Craig, but hey, it's about marketing and we can't stop that. We need more marketers like Andreas Antonopoulos, Ivan on Tech, etc. I'm afraid that BTC camp's marketing effort is just shit compared to BCH and BSV... We cannot win this battle with code alone.

beehimneff

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I agree with the author! It is extremely important to get rid of toxic people in your life. Bitcoin also needs to avoid such toxic people, so that bitcoin can flourish and become stronger and stronger every year. Cool

styca

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I totally agree that these forks are mostly useless money-grabbing scams. BCH was a big one, but even now we are seeing it with ridiculous attempts to create sustainable ETH-based chains following Constantinople. Sure, very occasionally there is a genuine reason for a split (ETC I suppose), but far far more often the new coins are utter garbage that are damaging to the reputation of crypto, and help contribute to chaos in the markets.

basici

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I do not see anything wrong in the fact that there are so many forks because thanks to them we can earn extra money

deisik

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on January 12, 2019, 02:43:27 AM

i disagree with that view. i don't see anybody switching over to a shitcoin from bitcoin specially a shitcoin such as bitcoincash. usually people with that view confuse investors (or more precisely the pump and dump participants) with people using these shitcoins and them having a "utility".

the biggest problem is that when you fork bitcoin you are basically copying bitcoin and you are copying all of its shortcomings too. so people will always have 2 choices:
go with bitcoin which is the most secure and most known and used cryptocurrency which is the only properly decentralized one.
or choose among thousands of altcoins one of which is BCH. and i don't see any legitimate company choosing BCH while there are better altcoins.

additionally in a way i think these forks are a good thing for bitcoin in the long run. why? because they are proving that copying bitcoin like this is not going to end well as each of them fail and fall like flies in the long run even if they get pumped for a while.

Could you be more specific about what you are disagreeing with?

I don't remember anyone saying in this topic that he wanted to dump Bitcoin in favor of Bitcoin Cash (and this is not the question of the topic itself). Obviously, there are enough credulous people who somehow believed the folks like the ones mentioned in this thread and the fairy tales they had been telling them (and are still telling) since otherwise scam and fraudulent schemes simply wouldn't be possible in the first place (and I don't necessarily mean crypto here) as well as con artists themselves

Herbert2020

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i disagree with that view. i don't see anybody switching over to a shitcoin from bitcoin specially a shitcoin such as bitcoincash. usually people with that view confuse investors (or more precisely the pump and dump participants) with people using these shitcoins and them having a "utility".

the biggest problem is that when you fork bitcoin you are basically copying bitcoin and you are copying all of its shortcomings too. so people will always have 2 choices:
go with bitcoin which is the most secure and most known and used cryptocurrency which is the only properly decentralized one.
or choose among thousands of altcoins one of which is BCH. and i don't see any legitimate company choosing BCH while there are better altcoins.

additionally in a way i think these forks are a good thing for bitcoin in the long run. why? because they are proving that copying bitcoin like this is not going to end well as each of them fail and fall like flies in the long run even if they get pumped for a while.

mahilchii

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Bitcoin cash is the one which ruined the market in December till now the market is struggling to show some massive change in the CMC chart. We were speaking a lot about the hardfork but there's no any specific change in the market.

joseyphil82

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I just hope you are right, bitcoin cash has done a lot of damages already and right now I'm in no support of more future hardforks ,they seem to be ruining everything, bitcoin will remain the best no matter what.

franky1

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Quote from: pixie85 on January 11, 2019, 06:53:22 PM

He can, or rather could have some coins because he got into space early. It would be stupid not to buy Bitcoins cheap or mine them in the days when you could do it on your average laptop. He's greatly exaggerating his resources. He might have a couple million dollars to juggle but no more. People who talk much rarely deliver and Craig is very talkative. He insults and threatens people who don't agree with him. All this puffing and huffing and Satoshi's coins remain untouched.

in 2012.. i got in. i seen price histories of cents-a couple$ so seeing $6 my mindset and many mindsets of people was $6 was "not cheap"

hindsight 7 years on is NOW.. that $6 was cheap. but at the time people did not think things were cheap as they couldnt predict the future

also what proof is there that craig wright got into bitcoin "early".
all i see is that he made some tulip trust of public keys that anyone can do
also his drama started in 2013+[mainly 2015 onwards].. not 2008-2012

so id say he had no bitcoin prior to 2012

lastly the most important part..
craig wright has nothing related to bitcoin. so can we just side line him as old boring social drama of 2015-2018... and not bring his name up again in 2019

pixie85

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Quote from: deisik on January 11, 2019, 03:17:23 PM

I guess we should first ask ourselves why we should believe in what he says at all

If I got it right, he is claiming that he is Satoshi Nakamoto in the flesh. If this is true (let's assume that for a moment), it does mean that he can easily drive the prices into single digits, given that Satoshi has around 1M bitcoins in his wallets. So he can potentially destroy any Bitcoin-based business

On the other hand, if he is lying, which seems to be the case, then his financial muscle remains to be independently assessed. For lack of such assessment and taking into account his lies about him being Satoshi Nakamoto, there is no reason to think that he has got even 1 satoshi

He can, or rather could have some coins because he got into space early. It would be stupid not to buy Bitcoins cheap or mine them in the days when you could do it on your average laptop. He's greatly exaggerating his resources. He might have a couple million dollars to juggle but no more. People who talk much rarely deliver and Craig is very talkative. He insults and threatens people who don't agree with him. All this puffing and huffing and Satoshi's coins remain untouched.

FedorIzmailov

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I believe that the market should abandon all such forks and only then it will be possible to count on the fact that we can grow in price.

deisik

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Quote from: jpnl0006 on January 11, 2019, 04:11:35 PM

i do not consider bitcoin cash as one that should be called or addressed when certain names are mentioned. although it has been a fork of bitcoin but it still has its own solutions it profers in the industry and also its use cases too. the price is somehow much more than most other altcoins and theefore should be considered a project that is remarkable

But you'd better do by now since you may be in for a rude awakening one day, and that day may be not too far from now. How much are you invested in Bitcoin Cash and which one exactly? If you are big time in any of these shitcoins (let's call them what they are, no manners here) and deep in red at that, then it is quite understandable that you are refusing to accept the ugly truth, that you have been conned by the crooks mentioned earlier here

If the recent events didn't teach you anything (I refer to the Bitcoin Cash hard fork and hash wars that followed), then you may have to learn it the hard way (no offense intended). And while we are at it, don't cherish yourself with the idea of other altcoins being cheaper as most of them are going to die anyway, along with Bitcoin Cash. On the other hand, Dogecoin is cheap as dirt but it will definitely outlive any of these altcoins as well as Bitcoin Cash

It is called karma

jpnl0006

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i do not consider bitcoin cash as one that should be called or addressed when certain names are mentioned. although it has been a fork of bitcoin but it still has its own solutions it profers in the industry and also its use cases too. the price is somehow much more than most other altcoins and theefore should be considered a project that is remarkable.

funchiestz

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I don't like forks. And coins came from it!

Do you know how much Bitcoin forks are there?

I can count them for you...

BCH, BCX, BTG, BTX, ZEC, SBTC, BCD, B2X, BCHC, BCL...

OMG I can't count all of it...

deisik

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Quote from: pixie85 on January 11, 2019, 01:14:15 PM

Craig won't be able to drive the price below 1000 dollars. He doesn't have enough money and enough influence. There are legit companies and investment funds that have more money than Craig and it's impossible for a smaller and poorer business to destroy a much bigger one. If one depends on the other in this space it's BSV on Bitcoin not the other way round.

Nobody is even buying BSV. It's tanking slowly but surely.

I guess we should first ask ourselves why we should believe in what he says at all

If I got it right, he is claiming that he is Satoshi Nakamoto in the flesh. If this is true (let's assume that for a moment), it does mean that he can easily drive the prices into single digits, given that Satoshi has around 1M bitcoins in his wallets. So he can potentially destroy any Bitcoin-based business

On the other hand, if he is lying, which seems to be the case, then his financial muscle remains to be independently assessed. For lack of such assessment and taking into account his lies about him being Satoshi Nakamoto, there is no reason to think that he has got even 1 satoshi

pixie85

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Craig won't be able to drive the price below 1000 dollars. He doesn't have enough money and enough influence. There are legit companies and investment funds that have more money than Craig and it's impossible for a smaller and poorer business to destroy a much bigger one. If one depends on the other in this space it's BSV on Bitcoin not the other way round.

Nobody is even buying BSV. It's tanking slowly but surely.

deisik

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Quote from: mk4 on January 11, 2019, 10:59:21 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 11, 2019, 07:20:06 AM

I don't think they will fork Bitcoin and start claiming it is the only genuine one. I hope they will be more like Charlie Lee who created Litecoin, which is basically Bitcoin's copycat tweaked here and there, but who never condemned Bitcoin as being inferior and whatnot

Probably not the path of claiming their fork as the "real" bitcoin, but if someone was to fork bitcoin to have their own version, it's very likely for them to claim that their version is the "better" bitcoin, so there's only quite a small difference there vs claiming a fork to be the "real" bitcoin.

At least, let's hope there won't be any more self-authorized Satoshis

With all the drama about Bitcoin versus Bitcoin Cash and then between Bitcoin Cash versions (known as hash wars), it would be bordering on suicide unless we are going to see a more advanced version of Ver or Wright. Personally, I'm inclined to think it doesn't make a lot of sense to take Bitcoin's name if some of the developers decide to go their own path as it would only raise eyebrows in respect to their real intentions (given all the drama I mentioned)

franky1

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1. craig wright didnt get a crap tonne of coins in the early days.
2. craig wright made a FAKE trust and got lots of fiat and then had to leave australia to avoid civil lawsuits
3. the forks of cash were due to core devs not wanting certain things on bitcoin network so the cause was not a craig wright thing. but a core thing and then later craig wright jumped on the cash drama to pretend he is an influencer
4. the cash sv drama has nothing to do with bitcoin. and no arbitrage movement is show to have caused any bitcoin drama

what you need to learn is craig wright is just a public face and is just causing social drama much like adam back and adams team does.

deisik

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Quote from: mu_enrico on January 11, 2019, 10:57:02 AM

I think the idea of bitcoin as the only one cryptocurrency is a utopia. People always have different ideas about the same topic, and it's also applied in bitcoin. Therefore, we cannot avoid forks... However, I don't like how one fork talks shit about other forks. People need to grow up and mind their own business

There can be only one

Kidding aside, the question is not about altcoins which you refer to here as it is about Bitcoin's forks, and more specifically, about forks which claim exactly that, i.e. being the only true Bitcoin out there. In case of Bitcoin Cash things didn't stop at just stealing Bitcoin's name as they got even worse than that with Craig Wright trying to steal the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto himself. Here lies the difference between altcoins which are on their own and Bitcoin forks which are pretending to be Bitcoin, the one and only

Topic: On shitcoins (Bitcoin Cash specifically) (Read 380 times)