People from Gebbit, I really do not understand why you would post all these issue and info. Do you honestly think this kind of problem s going to help your marketing problem?
You need to implement a different strategy and you need to find someone who would work on promotion and become part of your team. It s much easier to work with people when they share the same idea, expectations and potential reward with you. Outsourcing marketing to somebody else s not a smart thing to do. Marketing is crucial and should not be consider as an expense but as an investment.
Topic: Only one user and already trouble! Should I pay the extortion? (Read 3674 times)
Here is some info I was able to get to:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gebbitcom-true-or-false-1008513
It's either Mike Weber or somebody using his name
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gebbitcom-true-or-false-1008513
It's either Mike Weber or somebody using his name
Quote
Now, mind you, just coincidentally our homepage was slightly changed hours before this last email. I can see that this screenshot was made within the previous 2 hours. Meaning that he lied in his previous emails suggesting that he was working on the images and saying once that he had 4 of them done. Also what happened to him only having 4 more pictures left last Thursday? Because a hacker attempted to hack the site registration was temporarily down. The hack was unsuccessful of course but it made us exceed our email capacity. In order to register for an account you need to confirm your email address and 4500 emails had already been sent out in the previous 2 days because of the hacker. My guess is that he did not even have a Gebbit account which is why he couldn't quickly do the other pictures because he could not get past the log-in screen.
[email protected]
I HAVE had an account there for as long as Ive been your marketer.
Also forgetting to include THESE pictures which show the name
http://prntscr.com/6g7bg3 - proof it was sent to him
http://imgur.com/SNTeuwx - the pic where you can see the name
Asshole doesn't know what webcam is.
I'm not some rich person that uses a DSLR camera to take a picture of a doc.
Quote
I feel like I shouldn't pay him for work he did not do but there is a conflict of interest so I thought I would ask the community. It might also be smart just to pay him so that he will not lie about our company. For instance he is now spreading a lie saying we were hacked when we were never hacked.
I said that you were hacked, but you didn't tell the public until now.
For an "insured" exchange, you should've mentioned that to the public,
but of course. you didn't. the same way you can't tell the public who you are.
Pay first what u owe me and then ask for your money m8.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/offering-microloans-947015
U think this is fair?
Regards.
Sorry for OT.
Perhaps a model that has S "selling" his finished work? You define the project, for example: "red boxes will be...". When he has finished work ready to be added to the site you "buy" this finished work for a prearranged price. No finished work, no money. You might even be able to expedite things by some kind of competitive system. Offer a higher reward and make it a race. First one to turn in completed work wins. Or maybe a contractor could claim the work, but has 24hours to turn in work or lose his claim. In any case I like a system with no money up-front.
Agreed, easier said than done often
Perhaps a model that has S "selling" his finished work? You define the project, for example: "red boxes will be...". When he has finished work ready to be added to the site you "buy" this finished work for a prearranged price. No finished work, no money. You might even be able to expedite things by some kind of competitive system. Offer a higher reward and make it a race. First one to turn in completed work wins. Or maybe a contractor could claim the work, but has 24hours to turn in work or lose his claim. In any case I like a system with no money up-front.
Don't pay extortionists
conclusion: if you feel the need to hire a marketer off of bitcointalk - don't run a business.
this drama is entertaining, however, I wouldn't want to work with any of you.
this drama is entertaining, however, I wouldn't want to work with any of you.
Well, we have put in place new hiring protocols to make sure this won't happen again. I believe he responded to our post on reddit and not bitcointalk but I get your point. Since marketers don't deal with sensitive information, it is just as costly to vet them often as it is to throw them in for a trial run. We hope that with the new protocols we put in place this will stop any further issues like this in the future.
conclusion: if you feel the need to hire a marketer off of bitcointalk - don't run a business.
this drama is entertaining, however, I wouldn't want to work with any of you.
this drama is entertaining, however, I wouldn't want to work with any of you.
I like how they removed their volume tick..
From your other thread.
Frankly, I was doing a job.
I was getting paid, and so I carried out instructions.
But as they got sketchier and sketchier, I did things my way and questioned them.
and I don't care that you don't care. It's funny coming from someone with a neg trust for scamming.
I agree with you though that I was selfish. I'm sorry.
But I'm not doing this just because I wasn't paid.
I'm doing this because they could do this to everyone else, no just me.
I was getting paid, and so I carried out instructions.
But as they got sketchier and sketchier, I did things my way and questioned them.
and I don't care that you don't care. It's funny coming from someone with a neg trust for scamming.
I agree with you though that I was selfish. I'm sorry.
But I'm not doing this just because I wasn't paid.
I'm doing this because they could do this to everyone else, no just me.
they claimed that you have done job with lesser hour as you said
and they ask for your photo with higher resolution
it seems like you havent provided it, do provide it, your picture is in a pretty bad resolution for this gadget era, it looks like it was taken in 90's
Worked for lesser hours?
How could he say this?
The outcome is perfect and the volume of Gebbit is doing great.
I am not paid for even an hour, though he paid all the other
scrappy marketers in full though they didn't follow Gebbit's instructions either.
Why should I be treated in another way?
I'm not suggesting this or anything else you are saying is true. But I like your shoot with your eyes closed strategy.
I FINISHED the guide he's been telling me to do.
the other images look different because as I said in our emails,
i did them in different times. Which is why I worked on 4 images at a time.
Another, getting traffic without spamming (like what you're doing right now)
is a lot of work, and cannot be done in just a few hours.
Posting tweets is unverifiable?
Check the timeline.
the other images look different because as I said in our emails,
i did them in different times. Which is why I worked on 4 images at a time.
Another, getting traffic without spamming (like what you're doing right now)
is a lot of work, and cannot be done in just a few hours.
Posting tweets is unverifiable?
Check the timeline.
You failed to send the pictures of the guide so if you finished the guide but failed to send the pictures I don't understand how you can ask for pay.
I dug up part of an email sent on the 4th
"
Imagine the time I have lost in the past week due to your mismanagement. This is
the
3rd time I am sending you this guide as you had lost it already once before
3rd time I am asking you to create a picture for each point with red boxes as
shown in the wikihow link (you have not replied to either of the previous 2
emails confirming you can or have done this)
2nd time I am sending you the amended sentence (I had sent you the first email
on Monday after the 2nd email regarding your pay
I sent one email ahead of time stating that the extra pay would go to
your hours from the previous week
and then had spend 20 minutes writing an email reminding you why you
were only paid 150$ (because you had already been paid for many of your hours)
This is the more than 3rd time I have brought up the importance of this guide. "
In the end did i or did I not send the pictures?
You expect a perfect marketer who doesn't have a shit ton of clients in emails
and gets cluttered sometimes? You couldn't even manage your business.
You have lied about Gebbit having been hacked. You lied about the work that you did. Why do you insist on continuing to lie. Just because a company attempts to hire the services of someone to promote them does not mean they cannot manage their business. But nice try!
I like how they removed their volume tick..
Small in the end you didn't send anything except one picture which showed you had lied about having done the work you said you did. The proof was not only that you didn't send the work but that the homepage had changed showing that you had done that one picture only after I withheld pay. And withholding pay was part of the agreement.
I'm pretty sure I stated over and over again that I didn't work on all the images
at the same time.
Me reporting a scam and pointing out the obvious wasn't drama.
It was you tweeting all that bullshit about me and looking for allies in this
scam accusation.
Unprofessional as always.
Small in the end you didn't send anything except one picture which showed you had lied about having done the work you said you did. The proof was not only that you didn't send the work but that the homepage had changed showing that you had done that one picture only after I withheld pay. And withholding pay was part of the agreement.
This thread shouldn't exist.
You pay the guy or you don't, never ever bring inside drama about your business to reddit/here/anywhere it's like the last thing I would ever think of doing.
As for your site UI, the first thing I notice is I have to sign up an account just to look at it. Say what you want about btc-e.com but landing on their front page immediately I can tell what's for trade, see order book, watch trades, (unfortunately watch trollbox too) and no account is needed. To me that is better marketing than being forced to hand over email addresses immediately.
Second, the security information is nebulous.
"Gebbit uses AES-256" means nothing to me. What mode? Because if it's CBC/XTS that's bad http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2014/04/30/you-dont-want-xts/
"Insured wallet" by who? no information
"Security protocols" such as?
Withdraw information is nebulous. How long exactly do withdraws of BTC take. If you're claiming everything is offline then somebody has to physically sign the txn so I'm guessing you have hours of operation (not posted).
One email address "[email protected]" isn't going to work if say, tomorrow you had 1,000 customers and all their deposits had problems.
There is no information where your corp is, who is running it, phone numbers if my money disappears into a black hole, no bank info, no registration numbers with any known gov ect ect. This can all be excused if there is a multi-sig escrow insurance paid to somebody trusted here, who can hold one signature to ensure users won't have their money stolen should you be hacked out of existence, get shut down, run off with the money ect. So HeroMemberBob and HeroMemberAlice will both hold a sig, and you will hold the other sig to $100,000 in capital put up for insurance. Now we can all trade $100,000 max ceiling and have no worries about your identity (be as anon as you want, who cares). If not, then you have to prove to us why we should trust you with BTC/fiat since we've seen so many exchanges die from incompetence or fraud what makes you different than the idiots who once shut down their ec2 instance and wiped their entire wallet.dat (yes, this actually happened see bitomat.pl).
Also, if you are manually doing txns then add some altcoins, why not. Add all the one's that do multi-sig (I haven't kept up with altcoins, I assume some have multisig).
Even if bitcoins are kept offline, it's still possible to inject site credits and buy coins and withdraw with them. I assume there is some sort of manual accounting/balance sheet going on to prevent this if everything is manual. It is in your competitors interest to sabotage your site and if they can alter the front page, jack the db and start leaking email/passwords, or cause any kind of black PR and uncertainty re: your site security then it's game over so even if somebody "just alters the front page" that's important.
You should also expect attempted breaches by everybody on earth, there is money involved and they will try. http://homakov.blogspot.ca/2015/01/bitstamp-problem-and-warm-wallets.html
You pay the guy or you don't, never ever bring inside drama about your business to reddit/here/anywhere it's like the last thing I would ever think of doing.
As for your site UI, the first thing I notice is I have to sign up an account just to look at it. Say what you want about btc-e.com but landing on their front page immediately I can tell what's for trade, see order book, watch trades, (unfortunately watch trollbox too) and no account is needed. To me that is better marketing than being forced to hand over email addresses immediately.
Second, the security information is nebulous.
"Gebbit uses AES-256" means nothing to me. What mode? Because if it's CBC/XTS that's bad http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2014/04/30/you-dont-want-xts/
"Insured wallet" by who? no information
"Security protocols" such as?
Withdraw information is nebulous. How long exactly do withdraws of BTC take. If you're claiming everything is offline then somebody has to physically sign the txn so I'm guessing you have hours of operation (not posted).
One email address "[email protected]" isn't going to work if say, tomorrow you had 1,000 customers and all their deposits had problems.
There is no information where your corp is, who is running it, phone numbers if my money disappears into a black hole, no bank info, no registration numbers with any known gov ect ect. This can all be excused if there is a multi-sig escrow insurance paid to somebody trusted here, who can hold one signature to ensure users won't have their money stolen should you be hacked out of existence, get shut down, run off with the money ect. So HeroMemberBob and HeroMemberAlice will both hold a sig, and you will hold the other sig to $100,000 in capital put up for insurance. Now we can all trade $100,000 max ceiling and have no worries about your identity (be as anon as you want, who cares). If not, then you have to prove to us why we should trust you with BTC/fiat since we've seen so many exchanges die from incompetence or fraud what makes you different than the idiots who once shut down their ec2 instance and wiped their entire wallet.dat (yes, this actually happened see bitomat.pl).
Also, if you are manually doing txns then add some altcoins, why not. Add all the one's that do multi-sig (I haven't kept up with altcoins, I assume some have multisig).
Even if bitcoins are kept offline, it's still possible to inject site credits and buy coins and withdraw with them. I assume there is some sort of manual accounting/balance sheet going on to prevent this if everything is manual. It is in your competitors interest to sabotage your site and if they can alter the front page, jack the db and start leaking email/passwords, or cause any kind of black PR and uncertainty re: your site security then it's game over so even if somebody "just alters the front page" that's important.
You should also expect attempted breaches by everybody on earth, there is money involved and they will try. http://homakov.blogspot.ca/2015/01/bitstamp-problem-and-warm-wallets.html
Small brought the matter and the drama public when he accessed Gebbit of scamming. BTC payments are sent to offline wallets but a live wallet is managed which means that BTC withdraw requests are processed automatically. The deal for insurance that Gebbit has maintains that only a certain amount of BTC may be put on the live wallet at any given time. Since this is fully controllable issues which occurred with other major sites cannot happen to Gebbit.
When and if the business grows we plan to institute a ticketing system for support but right now that is not necessary.
You have mentioned BTC-e as an example of a well designed site. They have remained their anonymity while the vast majority of sites have been hacked or had other similar problems. Yet BTC-e have proven themselves as the most trustworthy. If Gebbit becomes successful we will not be able to stay under the radar like BTC-e but there is no need to expose ourselves to people like Small. Take this as an example of news that came out today
http://fuk.io/first-european-bitcoin-embassy-shuts-down/
Many people think that the cost of doing business should be exposure to personal attacks. We don't. Imagine your child reading nasty false comments about you online but not being old enough to make sense of them. If you are not comfortable with our stance, that is perfectly fine. Gebbit is not for you.
Its always difficult to trace work online. Withholding payment for work done in a normal job is normally only under extreme circumstances for which you need to provide more information on what was expected and what was actually done. You only paid for 15-20 hours, that is what 2-3 days of full time work. It would have been clear he had not been performing what was expected after hours surely?
20 hours a week was the amount of work expected of him. So far he should have put in I think 80 hours of work for Gebbit if we had him on for 4 weeks. I think he worked for less than 60 hours. If it wasn't for catching him red handed I would have no proof that he is a time thief. Now with the proof if I had to estimate he has worked less than the amount of hours he has been paid for.
Small you are not entitled to the same privacy that users of the sites are. You were allegedly providing us a service.
I was sending you private documents, and you leaked it to the public.
I AM entitled to the same privacy for that case.
What's your proof by the way?
I FINISHED the guide he's been telling me to do.
the other images look different because as I said in our emails,
i did them in different times. Which is why I worked on 4 images at a time.
Another, getting traffic without spamming (like what you're doing right now)
is a lot of work, and cannot be done in just a few hours.
Posting tweets is unverifiable?
Check the timeline.
the other images look different because as I said in our emails,
i did them in different times. Which is why I worked on 4 images at a time.
Another, getting traffic without spamming (like what you're doing right now)
is a lot of work, and cannot be done in just a few hours.
Posting tweets is unverifiable?
Check the timeline.
You failed to send the pictures of the guide so if you finished the guide but failed to send the pictures I don't understand how you can ask for pay.
I dug up part of an email sent on the 4th
"
Imagine the time I have lost in the past week due to your mismanagement. This is
the
3rd time I am sending you this guide as you had lost it already once before
3rd time I am asking you to create a picture for each point with red boxes as
shown in the wikihow link (you have not replied to either of the previous 2
emails confirming you can or have done this)
2nd time I am sending you the amended sentence (I had sent you the first email
on Monday after the 2nd email regarding your pay
I sent one email ahead of time stating that the extra pay would go to
your hours from the previous week
and then had spend 20 minutes writing an email reminding you why you
were only paid 150$ (because you had already been paid for many of your hours)
This is the more than 3rd time I have brought up the importance of this guide. "
In the end did i or did I not send the pictures?
You expect a perfect marketer who doesn't have a shit ton of clients in emails
and gets cluttered sometimes? You couldn't even manage your business.
I FINISHED the guide he's been telling me to do.
the other images look different because as I said in our emails,
i did them in different times. Which is why I worked on 4 images at a time.
Another, getting traffic without spamming (like what you're doing right now)
is a lot of work, and cannot be done in just a few hours.
Posting tweets is unverifiable?
Check the timeline.
the other images look different because as I said in our emails,
i did them in different times. Which is why I worked on 4 images at a time.
Another, getting traffic without spamming (like what you're doing right now)
is a lot of work, and cannot be done in just a few hours.
Posting tweets is unverifiable?
Check the timeline.
You failed to send the pictures of the guide so if you finished the guide but failed to send the pictures I don't understand how you can ask for pay.
I dug up part of an email sent on the 4th
"
Imagine the time I have lost in the past week due to your mismanagement. This is
the
3rd time I am sending you this guide as you had lost it already once before
3rd time I am asking you to create a picture for each point with red boxes as
shown in the wikihow link (you have not replied to either of the previous 2
emails confirming you can or have done this)
2nd time I am sending you the amended sentence (I had sent you the first email
on Monday after the 2nd email regarding your pay
I sent one email ahead of time stating that the extra pay would go to
your hours from the previous week
and then had spend 20 minutes writing an email reminding you why you
were only paid 150$ (because you had already been paid for many of your hours)
This is the more than 3rd time I have brought up the importance of this guide. "
Its always difficult to trace work online. Withholding payment for work done in a normal job is normally only under extreme circumstances for which you need to provide more information on what was expected and what was actually done. You only paid for 15-20 hours, that is what 2-3 days of full time work. It would have been clear he had not been performing what was expected after hours surely?
20 hours a week was the amount of work expected of him. So far he should have put in I think 80 hours of work for Gebbit if we had him on for 4 weeks. I think he worked for less than 60 hours. If it wasn't for catching him red handed I would have no proof that he is a time thief. Now with the proof if I had to estimate he has worked less than the amount of hours he has been paid for.
Small you are not entitled to the same privacy that users of the sites are. You were allegedly providing us a service.
-snip-
Honestly for me, he went over the line since he leaked the images here in the first place.
I was expecting the business to follow a privacy policy like a professional company and keep it to themselves.
Another red flag for them imo.
This thread shouldn't exist.
You pay the guy or you don't, never ever bring inside drama about your business to reddit/here/anywhere it's like the last thing I would ever think of doing.
As for your site UI, the first thing I notice is I have to sign up an account just to look at it. Say what you want about btc-e.com but landing on their front page immediately I can tell what's for trade, see order book, watch trades, (unfortunately watch trollbox too) and no account is needed. To me that is better marketing than being forced to hand over email addresses immediately.
Second, the security information is nebulous.
"Gebbit uses AES-256" means nothing to me. What mode? Because if it's CBC/XTS that's bad http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2014/04/30/you-dont-want-xts/
"Insured wallet" by who? no information
"Security protocols" such as?
Withdraw information is nebulous. How long exactly do withdraws of BTC take. If you're claiming everything is offline then somebody has to physically sign the txn so I'm guessing you have hours of operation (not posted).
One email address "[email protected]" isn't going to work if say, tomorrow you had 1,000 customers and all their deposits had problems.
There is no information where your corp is, who is running it, phone numbers if my money disappears into a black hole, no bank info, no registration numbers with any known gov ect ect. This can all be excused if there is a multi-sig escrow insurance paid to somebody trusted here, who can hold one signature to ensure users won't have their money stolen should you be hacked out of existence, get shut down, run off with the money ect. So HeroMemberBob and HeroMemberAlice will both hold a sig, and you will hold the other sig to $100,000 in capital put up for insurance. Now we can all trade $100,000 max ceiling and have no worries about your identity (be as anon as you want, who cares). If not, then you have to prove to us why we should trust you with BTC/fiat since we've seen so many exchanges die from incompetence or fraud what makes you different than the idiots who once shut down their ec2 instance and wiped their entire wallet.dat (yes, this actually happened see bitomat.pl).
Also, if you are manually doing txns then add some altcoins, why not. Add all the one's that do multi-sig (I haven't kept up with altcoins, I assume some have multisig).
Even if bitcoins are kept offline, it's still possible to inject site credits and buy coins and withdraw with them. I assume there is some sort of manual accounting/balance sheet going on to prevent this if everything is manual. It is in your competitors interest to sabotage your site and if they can alter the front page, jack the db and start leaking email/passwords, or cause any kind of black PR and uncertainty re: your site security then it's game over so even if somebody "just alters the front page" that's important.
You should also expect attempted breaches by everybody on earth, there is money involved and they will try. http://homakov.blogspot.ca/2015/01/bitstamp-problem-and-warm-wallets.html
You pay the guy or you don't, never ever bring inside drama about your business to reddit/here/anywhere it's like the last thing I would ever think of doing.
As for your site UI, the first thing I notice is I have to sign up an account just to look at it. Say what you want about btc-e.com but landing on their front page immediately I can tell what's for trade, see order book, watch trades, (unfortunately watch trollbox too) and no account is needed. To me that is better marketing than being forced to hand over email addresses immediately.
Second, the security information is nebulous.
"Gebbit uses AES-256" means nothing to me. What mode? Because if it's CBC/XTS that's bad http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2014/04/30/you-dont-want-xts/
"Insured wallet" by who? no information
"Security protocols" such as?
Withdraw information is nebulous. How long exactly do withdraws of BTC take. If you're claiming everything is offline then somebody has to physically sign the txn so I'm guessing you have hours of operation (not posted).
One email address "[email protected]" isn't going to work if say, tomorrow you had 1,000 customers and all their deposits had problems.
There is no information where your corp is, who is running it, phone numbers if my money disappears into a black hole, no bank info, no registration numbers with any known gov ect ect. This can all be excused if there is a multi-sig escrow insurance paid to somebody trusted here, who can hold one signature to ensure users won't have their money stolen should you be hacked out of existence, get shut down, run off with the money ect. So HeroMemberBob and HeroMemberAlice will both hold a sig, and you will hold the other sig to $100,000 in capital put up for insurance. Now we can all trade $100,000 max ceiling and have no worries about your identity (be as anon as you want, who cares). If not, then you have to prove to us why we should trust you with BTC/fiat since we've seen so many exchanges die from incompetence or fraud what makes you different than the idiots who once shut down their ec2 instance and wiped their entire wallet.dat (yes, this actually happened see bitomat.pl).
Also, if you are manually doing txns then add some altcoins, why not. Add all the one's that do multi-sig (I haven't kept up with altcoins, I assume some have multisig).
Even if bitcoins are kept offline, it's still possible to inject site credits and buy coins and withdraw with them. I assume there is some sort of manual accounting/balance sheet going on to prevent this if everything is manual. It is in your competitors interest to sabotage your site and if they can alter the front page, jack the db and start leaking email/passwords, or cause any kind of black PR and uncertainty re: your site security then it's game over so even if somebody "just alters the front page" that's important.
You should also expect attempted breaches by everybody on earth, there is money involved and they will try. http://homakov.blogspot.ca/2015/01/bitstamp-problem-and-warm-wallets.html
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