Topic: Onus & Remedy in Scam Accusation Threads (Read 6488 times)

Jesus christ...... will you guys stop derailing every thread.

Including this one we have SIX Usagi threads.

Isn't that what you want?

To Trent and others; The relevant posts have (apparently) been undeleted and/or given to BCB. I had a chat with BCB and a few others about it. Beyond that i've already explained why I deleted the posts.

As far as I can tell from talking to BCB the complaints come down to I'm a jerk/asshole and I was irresponsible as a manager. So I've decided to pay back investors out of my own pocket by (likely) forfeiting my own stake in my companies (or something to that effect). At the end of the day i'm sorry you don't like me, or if you think I am crazy (like greyhawk), but I'm paying for what I did. I'm doing the honorable thing. If that's not good enough for you then there's nothing else I can say.

Good luck with your other investments,

Oh god, why did you revive this? Now we're going to have usagi going crazy again.

If someone removes over 1000 of their posts which involve securities they have listed they should get a scammer tag as it is equivalent too destroying evidence.

Yes.  this.

getting back to the original question...

I will always blame the scammer before blaming the victim as the scammer performed some action to scam, however PLEASE, for the love of all that is Bitcoin:

• take warnings about foul business practices or suspect people seriously
• learn everything you can about how bitcoin is processed. also learn about other payment methods you use and their terms of use
• do your due diligence in researching "investments" in this bitcoin space
• ask for help and guidance rather than going it alone - a scammer will be prepared for this game far more than you likely will be

if it helps, assume everyone is a scammer until proven otherwise.
assume every borrower wants to run off without paying.
assume everyone you don't know well is misrepresenting themselves.

it's ok to ask for ID, AML/KYC type documents, contact info, etc., before conducting a trade - without this kind of information, your chances at some remedy are pretty thin

My suggestion is that you don't set up a trust at all.  Rather you set some reasonable deadline a few months away (say end of March).

If at that date claims haven't been settled then you auction off in public whatever assets you have left.  So you'd sell hashking's remaining debt by public auction and distribute the proceeds.  Lets everything get shut down neatly.

Same as I wouldn't distribute shares out at all - people invest in funds (in part) precisely because they DON'T want the hassle of owning loads of different shares.  Sell what you can at decent prices then auction off the rest (splitting into chunks if the asset is actually listed so splittable) and distribute all proceeds as cash.  Avoids a load of hassle, makes accounting simple, makes everything transparent, has a nice clean end date and removes a load of areas where otherwise there's the possibility of error (misvaluing an asset, dividending out proceeds after redistributing shares that were entitled to those proceeds etc).

You're wrong on that.

Pretty sure burnside listed the assets without anyone lobbying - though some (including myself) had stated we had no problems with usagi listing so long as he couldnt sell new shares.

BMF was listed first as a normal attempt to relocate from GLBSE - it got significant neagtive votes from mods pretty immediately.
SILVER was then listed and voted down by mods too.
Usagi then made his 'Final post ever' thread.
It was after that, that burnside offered to relist all of the assets but locked for trading.

Good point. Let BCB do what he said he would do and send evidence to him, I say.


Then support the effort in an alternate way, to let me be. Stating that Eskimobob lost money in NYAN.A is a blatant lie and it has now come out that by EskimoBob's own mouth he is up over 10% right now. Stuff like that, I don't want to have to spend time correcting.


SILVER was listed before I asked for help. The contract was the same as BTC-GOLD's and I had photos of the assets -- which were substantial (approx $5,000 US). I was downvoted entirely because of these threads.


No, I'm pretty sure it's the people who are running scam accusations against me.


Make a suggestion. Say I recover 500 bitcoins from hashking (somehow) 18 months from now. What do I do with the money?

No, I'm suggesting that if you have the time and energy to start new threads and compose novel length posts then you certainly have the time and energy to establish whether those claims have been paid (it should take less than the four hours you claim to have spent on formulating a response to a single point raised by BCB).

I believe that when you said the other day you were very, very tired and all you wanted to do was finish winding down your companies, you were telling the truth.  The problem arises when you claim on the one hand to be very, very tired and finding the winding down process overwhelming and then you put what time and energy you do have elsewhere - like starting a thread in the hope of defining scammer in a way which couldn't possibly include you and then starting yet another thread when the first one doesn't turn out like you hoped.

You asked for help the other day and you got it.  It's unlikely that BTC-TC would have let you list without people lobbying on your behalf (or perhaps more accurately, on behalf of your users) behind the scenes.  You said that was all you wanted, but it didn't stay all you wanted for very long.  You then wanted to list SILVER and seem quite put out at that proposal being rejected, apparently not comprehending why nobody wants anything to do with a new asset of yours while the previous ones are still an unresolved clusterfuck.

https://btct.co/security/BMF (click on contract and prospectus tab)

For whatever reason, you decided now would be a good time to seek vindication.  You keep saying you're too tired to deal with all this shit and yet you started a thread which dragged it all up again just when your assets had been listed on BTC-TC and there was a slight glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.  And now you don't like the outcome of that extremely ill-advised action so you're taking a discussion you initiated to a venue you control.  Can you truly not understand that it's your own impulsive and erratic behaviour which makes people distrust you more than any scammer accusations ever could?

For what it's worth, I think the 10 year trust you're proposing in the other thread is a mistake which disadvantages you.  Neither you nor your users want to be tied to each other for the next 10 years and it's an unreasonable length of time to expect you to keep trying to recover funds.  I believe you should re-evaluate the length of time the trust will exist.

So you're actually complaining that I said I was looking into it and that I am providing regular updates. Nice.

There also seem to be quite a few asset issuers you haven't bothered contacting yet.  It is your job to be on top of the claims process and to be aware of what payments you've already received.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nyancpa-final-claims-process-updated-september-22nd-2013-133168

You seem to forget that this latest drama was spawned by you making a thread in which you tried to control the discussion and force everyone else to accept your definition of scammer.  This thread hasn't gone the way you hoped so you've started another.  You do this every single time the drama surrounding your business activities is dying down.  

A few days ago you were going to wind down your companies and leave forever.  A few days ago you were content to have your assets listed on BTC-TC with restrictions so you could wind down.  Now you want to list new assets and despite having whined endlessly about the difficulty of dealing with this community apparently you want to continue doing business with this community.  Why you expect people to trust someone who is so erratic is totally beyond me.

But keep right on sperging.  It's not going to change a single person's opinion in your favour but at least it's free entertainment and maybe your meltdowns will go viral and you'll get all the attention you crave so badly.

Well considering it was deleted for the majority of october, november and december and only reappeared yetserday it would have been hard for people to respond to it.  Or had you forgotten you deleted it early in October?

Think when GLBSE went down people had other things on their mind than commenting on posts by you that were invisible due to deletion.

No, I demand to be allowed to make a response to accusations.

Yes you are reading it right. This was published in a shareholder letter on September 30th and not a single person complaned for all of October, November, and December. Only now, after 90+ days, is it being casted in an unfair light.

If people are upset about this I will return the fifty bitcoins out of my own personal money. But honestly, why is it such an issue? Everyone has known I did this for three months and this is the first time anyone has complained to me. You, you're not even a shareholder. What do you care?

And no "We" is not pretentious, NYAN was owned by CPA, and WE referred to the CPA round table.

Consisting of:
Patrick Harnett,
DeadTerra,
Mollison,
gohkan-san
teek

Mollison and Patrick Harnett were removed from the board, in particular Patrick harnett was removed from the board before he made any noise about KRAKEN.

You know very well what WE referrs to. Or are you operating from a position of ignorance in these matters?


No, YOU are annoying as fuck. You don't even know wtf you are talking about when you criticize me. You also lie: what "don't know if we've been paid yet" comments are you referring to? There are none in the shareholder letter you quoted!

Am I reading that right - did BMF pay for usagi's VIP donation to the forum?

Also the "don't know if we've been paid yet" comments in respect of claims filed is a bit concerning (the constant use of "we" is both pretentious and annoying as fuck).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nyancpa-final-claims-process-updated-september-22nd-2013-133168

mods, can you lock this thread seeing usagi's now started yet another "people are lying" thread?

updated

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/usagi-is-he-or-isnt-he-a-scammer-133823

Just to throw out a counterpoint here, for what it's worth, I believe that usagi has imposed a ridiculously onerous condition on himself in the wind-down of the assets now listed on BTC-TC and that the trust being created to allow for the possible recovery of toxic debt should be of much shorter duration. 

He's essentially trying to do a "Berlusconi".

Fine, I'll post replies on the other thread then.

Usgai

9 posts - really?  Way to continue your Obfuscation.

You are still not answering the questions.