Topic: [OPEN]⚡whirlwind.money | Anonymity Mining Campaign | 12% APR | Daily Rewards⚡ - page 2. (Read 1907 times)

They are on TalkImg already. The problem is with http/https. If to fix it we can see what is in the OP of the topic.


@whirlwindmoney
You just need to change http://talkimg.com/ to https://talkimg.com/ for images to become visible.

@whirlwindmoney
How long is this campaign going to be active?
All images in OP are not working (maybe move them to TalkImg) co I can't check any details right now.

Oh, I got the day count rule wrong, apparently:360.
Even better.

Regarding the calculations.

My computation considering 12% yearly yield daily compounded:

Daily interest=capital*annual interest*days/360

Hence:
0.00046059 BTC*0.12*1/360≈ 0.00000015353 (15 Satoshi, still)

Using your computations:

Daily interest=capital*monthly interest*days/30

Hence:
0.00046059 BTC*0.01*1/30≈ 0.0000001535

Exact same result... As expected.

As far as I understand, the 1% is per month, not per year, dear fillippone. Therefore the calculation should be like this:

Daily interest = capital * monthly interest / 30.

The yearly interest is 12%, not 1%.

As far as I see, Whirlwind gave this example of calculation:

The only calculation that seems reasonable to me:

Daily interest=capital*annual interest*days/365
Hence
0.00046059 BTC*0.12*1/365≈ 0.00000015

Am I doing something wrong?

That does sound strange, one of my notes has a low balance too but still receives rewards, even though I've made a withdraw.

What calculation do you use to get to 15 satoshi/day?

I can confirm that my leftovers on Whirlwind are still exactly the same after my last withdrawal.
I should expect to receive something like 15 satoshi daily, but I don't receive any.
I am puzzled by the situation.
Not that 15 daily satoshi bothers me, rather I would like to know exactely how the reward work, as I received the payments in due amount and time until my first withdrawal.

@whirlwindmoney
please run the [Script] Imgur to TalkImg - automatically fix your broken images to make your uploaded images visible to all users again

I checked again today and I see that I received some sats during the night. However, excepting today (when the daily stake was added), during past days I checked too and for several days I did not notice any change of the balance... Apparently, this problem was also encountered by fillippone.

After reading this post I checked my own note and recorded the balance and then came back the next day to see if it had changed - and it had increased so I'm getting the APR daily.

Are you sure you saved down the exact amount on one day and then checked it again after a day or two?

In addition to my previous questions I would also like to ask if there is any problem with the daily paid interest. The problem is that I think I did not receive it for days now, maybe up to 2 weeks...

I asked also another staker yesterday, to check if he received during the night the 1%/30 daily interest and today he confirmed me he has same balance as yesterday, meaning that he also did not receive the daily interest.

Is there any problem with these daily payments? Are they made now at different intervals (e.g. maybe once per month instead of once per day)?

The last 4 outgoing transactions from the multisig address used 40-47 sat/vbyte (1, 2, 3, 4).

I noticed there is no option on the website for setting a fee so I was wondering: if Whirlwind is paying the fee when users move their funds from their notes to their wallets, what type of fees is Whirlwind paying? Are they priority fees? Normal fees? Low fees? I am asking because, due to the network congestion, if low or normal fees are paid, transactions can be delayed for days.

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Here I am not sure I understood correctly... is the interest 1% or 4.5% and dropping to 1%? (By 1% I mean 1% per month, respectively 1/30% per day -- same for the 4.5%.)

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Have you considered how long you will keep this campaign running if the deposits number simply does not grow up to 10.000? Will you wait for 1 year to reach this number? 2 years...? Will it continue endlessly if this number is not met?

We mentioned in the ANN thread that we are expecting to pay up to 6 BTC for this campaign, but we can handle it even if it goes beyond that. Keep in mind that a portion of the multi-sig balance would be our own reserve, so the 'real' amount of rewards paid out is always lower than the amount stated publicly.

We did not disclose the amount in the 'personal stash' not because we don't want to, but because as said from the beginning we intend to use it to permanently increase the multi-sig balance and the Anonymity Set by blending it in with other users deposits. If we were to disclose any of the wallets we intend to use for depositing we would incur extra costs to obfuscate the trail again before doing it and that would be pointless, we'd much rather spend that on Anonymity Mining rewards. You will notice that as soon as deposits start to happen more frequently the balance will drastically increase and it will never come back to the current levels.

'Taking loans' is one way to look at it, but it's not entirely accurate since we do not touch customer deposits, nor do we care about how long they are kept inside Whirlwind. We are only interested in 'artificially' boosting usage for a while until the Anonymity Set is big enough to accomodate large deposits/withdrawals without it being a privacy concern.

There is risk since it's a centralized service. Your BTC is retrievable at any moment only as long as Whirlwind is running, so you need to trust us if you want to participate in the campaign or simply use it for privacy.

From what I read, it is no clear to what extent a seizure or the bankruptcy of the service providers would impact the stakers. A 12% APR is a very promising profitability for a money that is otherwise frozen, but it has nothing to do compared to the loss of the 100% of the capital, if these problems happened.

If I'm wrong and there is no risk associated because Bitcoins are retrievable at any moment no matter what, then I will have to think it twice.

What happens when you don't have any coins left? For example, what if someone deposits 100 BTC (which is extremely unlikely at the moment, but say if) and expects to earn 1 BTC every month? Can you handle it financially? As far as I'm concerned, you have not disclosed the amount of personal stash you have. If you don't want to do that, which is very reasonable for a service like this, then perhaps limiting the amount earned is a wise choice.

So basically what you're trying to do is take loans from every depositor.

"Not your keys, not your coins"

- Biden, probably

You may have misunderstood how the campaign works, it would be insane to ask you to deposit for 6 years or any amount of time really.

Distributions are made every day around 12:10 AM UTC so to be profitable you would need to wait for a maximum of 24 hours if for instance you deposited at 12:20 AM UTC, or only 10 minutes if you deposited at 12:00 AM UTC.

For a 1 BTC deposit your balance would look like this:

Day 1: 1 BTC
Day 2: 1 + (1 * 0.01) / 30 = 1.00033333
Day 3: 1.00033333 + (1.00033333 * 0.01) / 30 = 1.00066677
Day 4: 1.00066677 + (1.00066677 * 0.01) / 30 = 1.00100032
..

You can withdraw your balance at any point, there are no special conditions to participate in the campaign. All Notes are eligible and automatically participate in the campaign, you will receive rewards for as long as your Note is funded.

We hope we will reach the 10,000 Anonymity Set goal as soon as possible. We do not necessarily care about how long you keep your funds inside Whirlwind because by the time the campaign ends we would have added our entire reserve. At that point the multi-sig balance won't be an issue, even if we assume there is no other depositor besides us it should be more than enough to accomodate any amount.

In the short term we will almost surely lose money, but in the grand scheme of things it's irrelevant. A few BTC is a very small price to pay for what we are getting in return through this campaign. After reaching the Anonymity Set goal we expect the business to become very profitable because at that point it wouldn't make much sense for anyone to use another service so it's only a matter of time until Whirlwind's popularity explodes.

Yes the campaign ends once we reach 10,000 deposits. If you are only looking for rewards then there won't be any incentive to deposit anymore, we are not a staking platform. On the other hand if you're looking for real privacy then you'd get it by simply using the service, and you could get it for free if you don't choose to donate.

We have no reason to keep the Note private keys, if we wanted to steal your funds we could simply drain the multi-sig since that's where the BTC is kept. Currently the service is centralized, so you need to trust us if you want to use it.

From a technical point of view Tornado is the undisputed king and IMO it cannot be compared to anything else. Even though it got sanctioned no user lost any funds and it continues to function to this day, in fact it's unstoppable as long as Ethereum continues to exist.

If it's not obvious already Whirlwind is built on the same model, so it's already 'battle-tested' and we know for a fact it offers the best privacy assuming enough volume goes through it and the Anonymity Set is big enough. Considering this our only remaining important task besides reaching the Anonymity Set goal is to decentralize the service and we are already working on that as we speak.

We will also improve upon Tornado's compliance module and that should be more than enough to avoid giving anyone reasons to target us, more info about this will be released once we finalize the details.

Regarding Whirlwind getting 'busted' firstly there is no reason for this to happen for the foreseeable future, but our response to this concern is worth reading nonetheless:

I don't think that the fact Chipmixer run for 6 years matters, because according to the site:


Does this mean that over 10k deposits, there will be no more campaign payments? What will be the incentive for people to keep depositing, when the number starts getting close to 10k?

I'd be willing to deposit, but there's this thing in the back of my head saying: "What if they have access to these generated private keys? It wouldn't be the first time when the mixing operator lied about something. If whirlwind gets busted somehow, the way they got Tornado, Helix, Chipmixer, will they be able to get my bitcoin?"

interesting concept, but in the long run how profitable is it on your side because this service has guaranteed rewards for anybody staking going with the  "Anonymity Mining"?

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Btw, I guess anybody that wants to hodl should go with this service as it kills two birds with one stone. hodl will you earn