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Topic: OP_HODL (Read 5647 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1115
February 14, 2016, 05:13:58 PM
#46
Welcome to the thread, JJG! It'll be a brave new world, with such smart contracts in it. That's for sure. I'm excited. Smiley

Suggested reading: Cryptocurrencies, Smart Contracts, and Artificial Intelligence

The legal codes of many countries have become quite complex. Several AI projects are trying to create formal digital versions of legal codes (CodeX, 2014). These systems will eventually be used to resolve legal issues and perhaps even act as arbitrators or judges. Sophisticated AI systems with knowledge of the legal system will be used to help craft and simplify new legislation.



 Shocked
legendary
Activity: 3710
Merit: 10196
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
February 14, 2016, 05:00:27 PM
#45
I'm not sure if I understand much of the technical gobbledy gook of this thread;however, I do find this to be a very interesting concept that could potentially turn western common law practices on it's head in a variety of ways.

Well, yeah, bitcoin already does that; however, in this thread we seem to be referring to the possibility of creating a contract that initially may be within the control of the creator(s), but could be written in such a way that it falls out of the control of the creator(s), and thereby becomes executable upon the meeting of various conditions at some point in the future.

If I understand correctly, in western common law, no contract controlling the disposition of property (or assets) (frequently applicable in the area of wills and trusts) can be valid if it violates the rule against perpetuities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities


In summary, a contract needs to be created and under the control of human beings and no longer than a measuring life plus 21 years in order to free up the title.. blah blah blah.  The idea is that there is a societal value that property and assets remain controllable by living persons (rather than potentially completely controlled by someone who has been dead more than a measuring life plus 21 years (which may last 100 or more years).

If contracts are able to be created to tie up such property for longer periods of time, and neither the state nor any person has control of such tied up property, that could lead to very interesting difficulties and changes in the way we view certain kinds of property.. and ability of dead people to control property from their earlier execution of a contract that no longer can be controlled by anyone, including the state.

I do recognize that there are a lot of valid uses, and even that this whole technology could be very innovative and good, if the contracts are written well and people do not realize later that they fucked up the language of the contract and tied up the assets for a longer period than they had originally intended. 

I would only argue that it could be a bad thing in the sense that it does have the potential to tie up property for very long periods of time and beyond any kind of reasonable period that any living people could want, when the contract may have been created by someone who either loses control over it because of death or wrote in a mistaken way that causes the property to be tied up and therefore outside of the control of people (which ultimately, in my view, should be the beneficiaries and able to control actual assets in the real world within reasonable periods of time after the creation of such contracts)
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1115
February 13, 2016, 08:20:44 AM
#44
The Darkleaks protocol has three major shortcomings/vulnerabilities that appear to stem from fundamental functional limitations of Bitcoin’s scripting language when constructing contracts without direct communication between parties. That these limitations are fundamental is evidenced by calls for new, time-dependent opcodes. One example is CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY; apart from its many legitimate applications, proponents note that it can facilitate secret leakage.*


Fixed. Thanks Core. Wink




*Source: Using Smart Contracts for Crime
Ari Juels
Jacobs Institute, Cornell Tech
[email protected]
et al.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
February 11, 2016, 02:46:25 PM
#43
The public does not know whether the redeemScript involves OP_CLTV until they're redeemed. If somebody locked up funds for 10 years you wont know until 2026 when they spend them.
Excelent.

Quote
more than 10% of all bitcoins are held in p2sh addresses, so the upper bound of OP_CLTV usage is quite large.
redeemScript is known for most of them. Yes, there are addresses without spending transactions. But it is possible to hodl funds on such address till 2026 without OP_CLTV - just not spend funds Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 261
Merit: 518
February 11, 2016, 08:46:02 AM
#42
This is a good step forward.
Why are you so sure? Nobody on network uses this feature today. No-bo-dy.

How would you know? It's a new feature but it has some use cases. I think it's good to have it around for whoever feels like there's need to.
Isn't is difficult to count the number of OP_CLTV operations in blocks for the day or for the week?

The public does not know whether the redeemScript involves OP_CLTV until they're redeemed. If somebody locked up funds for 10 years you wont know until 2026 when they spend them.

more than 10% of all bitcoins are held in p2sh addresses, so the upper bound of OP_CLTV usage is quite large.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
February 10, 2016, 11:58:23 PM
#41
This is a good step forward.
Why are you so sure? Nobody on network uses this feature today. No-bo-dy.

How would you know? It's a new feature but it has some use cases. I think it's good to have it around for whoever feels like there's need to.
Isn't is difficult to count the number of OP_CLTV operations in blocks for the day or for the week?
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1412
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
February 10, 2016, 07:05:18 PM
#40
This is a good step forward.
Why are you so sure? Nobody on network uses this feature today. No-bo-dy.

How would you know? It's a new feature but it has some use cases. I think it's good to have it around for whoever feels like there's need to.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
February 10, 2016, 06:50:30 AM
#39
I think it's a necessary feature for future payment channels?

I think it is. As far as i read it is one of the steps needed for every deposit in a payment channel. Just in case the other party vanishes.

Though it's interesting to hear that it is not ready yet. I guess that means that the lightning network can't come online as long as it isn't available.

Maybe the devs work on segwit, which in fact would be the more important step for now.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1115
February 10, 2016, 05:06:15 AM
#38
The merge is news, the release will be news. It's a darned interesting feature!
Old news, and there is nothing for people to do about it yet. Making noise about it now will only slow deployment, because you'll expend people's attention when there is no action for them to take. Smiley

Does "expending people's attention" amount to "violence"?

Here's what's funny about all this. I started this thread in Beginners and Help; then a moderator moved it to Bitcoin Discussion; then another moderator moved it to Technical Development; then Gmax told me to stop talking about it.  Lips sealed


This is a good step forward.
Why are you so sure? Nobody on network uses this feature today. No-bo-dy.

I think it's a necessary feature for future payment channels?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
February 10, 2016, 01:39:09 AM
#37
This is a good step forward.
Why are you so sure? Nobody on network uses this feature today. No-bo-dy.
legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1299
December 08, 2015, 11:12:15 AM
#36
It's now been activated at >75% penetration so now for someone to send the first transaction using it...

I'm eagerly awaiting the use of this for the first cross-blockchain transaction between bitcoin and an altcoin.  Should be pretty momentous if it sets the standard for decentralised trade without using exchanges. 

This is a good step forward.  With this and a few other BIPs in progress, the number of use cases will increase dramatically. 
legendary
Activity: 3724
Merit: 3063
Leave no FUD unchallenged
December 08, 2015, 08:40:37 AM
#35
It's now been activated at >75% penetration so now for someone to send the first transaction using it...

I'm eagerly awaiting the use of this for the first cross-blockchain transaction between bitcoin and an altcoin.  Should be pretty momentous if it sets the standard for decentralised trade without using exchanges. 
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
December 08, 2015, 08:10:23 AM
#34
It's now been activated at >75% penetration so now for someone to send the first transaction using it...
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1115
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
November 15, 2015, 08:55:42 AM
#32
This is a nice feature!
good work!
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1115
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
November 09, 2015, 07:40:40 AM
#30
The merge is news, the release will be news. It's a darned interesting feature!
Old news, and there is nothing for people to do about it yet. Making noise about it now will only slow deployment, because you'll expend people's attention when there is no action for them to take. Smiley

Does "expending people's attention" amount to "violence"?
staff
Activity: 4172
Merit: 8419
November 08, 2015, 03:57:05 PM
#29
The merge is news, the release will be news. It's a darned interesting feature!
Old news, and there is nothing for people to do about it yet. Making noise about it now will only slow deployment, because you'll expend people's attention when there is no action for them to take. Smiley
staff
Activity: 4172
Merit: 8419
November 08, 2015, 03:29:03 PM
#28
Perhaps would have been more useful to hold off commenting on the merge until the release, which will be in a couple days.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1115
November 08, 2015, 12:56:03 PM
#27
CheckLockTimeVerify (CLTV) has been merged into Bitcoin Core.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/checklocktimeverify-or-how-a-time-lock-patch-will-boost-bitcoin-s-potential-1446658530

Quote
On a final note, it should be mentioned that the CLTV concept is actually not new at all; it has existed in Bitcoin since the early days. With the previous incarnation of the time-locked concept, however, locked transactions were not actually included in the blockchain until a certain point in time. Rather, they were kept by Alice and (more importantly) Bob, to transmit over the Bitcoin network once the time-lock expired.

By actually baking it into the protocol as CLTV does, the payment channel process is better streamlined and more robust. Perhaps most importantly, it disables payment channel failures caused by transaction malleability.
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