Topic: Other significant coins? Which to select? (Read 1784 times)

It looks like BURST is having an uptrend now, the morale is back and we got a strong community. I would definitely buy BURST in your place, it might be the next big thing.

I agree that LTC is above the others.
That's why the weight of Litecoin component at the beginning was approximately 10%, the weight of other 18 components was about 5% each.

But do you agree that it is the reason Litecoin shouldn't be included?
Following this logic Apple shares or Standard Oil shares are (were) inappropriate components of the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

I agree that the "blue chip" coins are LTC, DOGE, NXT, DASH, maybe ETH.
If we don't include LTC, there are 3-4 coins and that would be a shorter index. But then there would be no diversification. No balance between risks and rewards. Not interesting. Especially if whales would decide to dump their "blue chips".

So you're right, the ALT19 Index is not a "blue chip" index currently. It should simply contain 19 significant altcoins. The index is not a classification. It may contain very different/well-diversified coins. Standard and poor, smart and fool's... Which are "smart" and which are "fool's"? Who knows? Only time will tell.

Please suggest coins which you consider as the most significant ones.

Yes, a shorter index would be better if the intention is to gather the "blue chip" coins. I also agree with other posters that LTC is far above the others.

I think you must select altcoin 5 index only, 19 coins are too much  Market is full of many altcoins 

Exchanges decide which coins TO LIST.
I'm not able to include coins that are not listed. They have no prices at all.
Users, investors, members (not exchanges) decide which coins to trade, to support, to develop.

On November 1st, 2015 Bittrex will delist 37 coins including CYP, HAL, GRID, RZR, SFR, SYNC, WATER, ZRC.  Some of them had pretty large market cap and still have holders.

Poloniex has killed many small coins by delisting them.

Exchanges often list coins that are hot right now only and then delist them when volumes decrease.
Altcoin indices must not contain the components that are under risks of delisting.

Why it is not a solution to include top market cap coins only?

To diversify, to balance risks and rewards, and to protect investors from investing in overpriced IPO's and quasi-innovative new coins with no history and hypes like XPY.

I hope it's clearer now why the components of altcoin indices must be coins with some history and with Cryptsy listing.
 
The components must be stable. They shouldn't be changed every day or every month.

Charts, historical data show how your long term investments go, your profits, losses (%), but if we change the components regularly then charts and historical data will not be representative. For example, you will not be able to find out how much money you would have if you bought the components an year ago.

The components of the Dow Jones have changed 53 times only in its 128-year history.

NXT and BURST are a good choice in my opinion. They are similar but also different in certain cases. Choose the one you like.

Apple: market cap $654B sector: Technology
Caterpillar: market cap $39B sector: Industrials
They are both in the Dow Jones.

You're right, LTC is "orders of magnitude above the rest".
But is is an altcoin. If we don't include it, people will ask where is LTC? Not included? Why? Not interesting?
Some members bash LTC and new investors may be confused.

You may disagree, but LTC is in the same boat with altcoins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/will-the-ltc-price-hit-3-how-wide-market-altcoin-indices-can-predict-1089664

Besides "the Dow Jones is a price-weighted average, which gives higher-priced stocks more influence over the average than their lower-priced
counterparts, but takes no account of the relative industry size or market capitalization of the components. For example, a $1 increase in a
lower-priced stock can be negated by a $1 decrease in a much higher-priced stock, even though the lower-priced stock experienced a larger
percentage change".

'crypto 2.0', there is the ALT_INNOVATIVE Index already http://alt19.com/marketindexes.html

'anons' and an ANON Index is a great idea but maybe someone else will calculate it?  Exchanges, for example? ALT_SHADOW Index...

I'm not a friend of these coins, they may attract the attention of regulators. As a result, digital currencies (including coins with transparent transactions) may suffer. Transparent transactions (BTC, LTC, DOGE, NXT) are the compromise.

ShadowCash SDC is really great technically, and some investors like CANN, but just imagine components of Dow Jones would be stocks of drug
cartels. Shadow Colombian Cash Inc. Earnings Release, Major Holders, Research Reports... Sounds weird at least.

My opinion is that it would be enough to have the most famous and high value 'anons' (DASH and XMR currently) in the ALT19 Index.

What do other members think?

Well that ain't the case now, ain't it?

edit:  I was gonna take the index seriously.  And I think it's a great idea (if the people who ran the exchanges created it).  But when I saw you calling them 'blue chips', I thought it was some kind of a joke.  It's more like 'blue cheaps', really.

tokeweed, there was only one altcoin exchange when I started calculating the ALT19 Index.

And plus who made you the 'man' to decide all this.  Shouldn't all the exchanges be the ones to get to decide?  Even if it's unofficial...?

You Shuld investigate capricoin, Gary Conner the owner http://www.altcointoday.com/ he has 6 million dollar invested in different cryptocurrency. He is saying that capricoin is the best coin right now and its so much more advanced vs bitcoin that it will go mainstream in 1-2 years and just out preform bitcoin. Im currently getting every capricoin. I´m getting as much coins I can get right now. here is page you can check fi you want to know more about capricoin ----> http://davidstahl.digitalcurrencyfuture.com/

So where is NEM on this list? They have been around for a while and know what needs be done to be successful in the long run. Anyone second my thoughts?

I get what you're doing.  But please call it something else.  Because they are far far away from being in the same vicinity of a blue chip.  It sounds like a joke tbh.  No offense.

tokeweed, of course they are not 'blue chips' like Apple or Google shares.
Apple market cap is higher than $600B.
BTC market cap?

We have a very small market these days.

"As befits the sometimes high-risk nature of stock picking, 'blue chip' derives from poker. The simplest sets of poker betting discs include white, red, and blue chips, with tradition dictating that the blues are highest in value. If a white chip is worth $1, a red is usually worth $5, and a blue $25".

So it is relative.  $25 is less than $500 mln. Still it is a blue chip

If you have other candidates, please point them.

I like it that you're creating an index, OP but calling those coins as "blue chips" is just stupid.  All of them are under 500m usd in market capitalization ffs.

But if there's another crypto at say 50 usd per coin, then that's a 'blue chip'.

I didn't say Eth is ok.  Eth is currently vaporware for all intents and purposes until it creates a valid consensus mechanism.



I don't know if you've been in outer space or something, but Poloniex is now the #1 altcoin exchange probably.  Cryptsy seems like they're in trouble because they had to alter their fee model just recently too.


Protoshares was a PoW coin that was used for people to mine to get the Bitshares DPoS coin.  Only "BTS" on exchange matters.  Some random fools tried to keep the PoW chain going for no reason.  As you can see on market cap, the Bitshares DPoS coin is the one that matters.

r0ach, thanks, now that's more constructive except for hating PoW
NXT, XMR, ETH - OK
Maidsafe, better let's wait till at least 50% done and Cryptsy listing.

BitShares
could you please tell me why Coinmarketcap indicates a price of 0.00002611 BTC
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares/  
and Cryptsy rate is 10 times higher? 0.00025509 BTC
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/PTS_BTC 

First off, since these are all probabilistic security models, there is no good choice, only best bad choice.  Due to this reason, I don't think one coin will ever have a monopoly on the market and people will hedge in 3-5 coins that end up having similar market caps.

Going down the market cap list from top to bottom:

Bitshares - DPoS and PoW are the two best consensus mechanisms currently with certain tradeoffs for each

Maidsafe - might be good if it's ever finished, might be vaporware, only 15% done and in development for years which makes it kind of not even worth talking about at this point

Nxt - if they ever code transparent forging, otherwise no (not sure if it's even possible).  With transparent forging, you're recreating DPoS of bitshares, just in a less straightforward, less efficient way.  It would survive in this case by virtue of needing several coins for people to hedge in rather than just one monopoly coin.

Monero - probably the best PoW coin that isn't Bitcoin

Litecoin - only reason to pick Litecoin is if you think the Satoshi premine is setting you up for a black swan event and you want less cryptonote bloat than Monero

There might be a few other decent special case coins like some of these "storage" based coins, but I haven't really compared them all and if the market actually needs such a service or not.  If the altcoin is just plain PoW or PoS, then you probably do not want it over any of the options above.  For DPoS, Bitshares doesn't have a real competitor in that sector.  The altcoin industry is starting to weed out a lot of pointless coins and you can tell by them having literally 0 volume on exchange.


The questionable coins

Ethereum - only if Vitalik invents an alternative consensus mechanism equal or better than DPoS. Currently it's PoW.  You can do much of Ethereum functionality in Bitshares, NXT, and other platforms.  Vitalik used the word "delegated voting" in his post today, so it sounds like he might be trying to clone a DPoS system.

r0ach could you please suggest 19 coins that are not sh.. in your opinion.
BTC is not an altcoin so it couldn't participate.

This thread is absolute trash.  All you people did is list a shit ton of PoW clone coins that have no future.  PoW is designed to be a monopoly player over the entire universe and doesn't even function when others like it exist.  See the fallacy of PoW consensus outlined in:

Decentralised Currencies Are Probably Impossible But Let’s At Least Make Them Efficient

http://www.links.org/files/decentralised-currencies.pdf

And all the stuff I list here:

The state of crypto - The only serious thread on the subforum

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-state-of-crypto-the-only-serious-thread-on-the-subforum-1171109