Over the Past 300 Years, No Fiat Money Has Escaped Going to 0

wxa7115

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 11, 2021, 10:38:28 AM

Well, what happens when it goes to zero? It simply gets a reset by the governments and everyone continue on like normal. The eventual end of national currencies are not a big deal anymore, they find excuses and they find innovative ways to "reboot" it, like the US Dollar when it was backed by Gold.

Governments like Zimbabwe just turned to the next Fiat currencies and piggy backed on it to survive and once that fails, they will just latch onto the next reserve currency that survived. Roll Eyes

If it was that simple then no one will be worried but we know that is simply not true, when a fiat currency goes to zero or it approximates that value then there is an enormous amount of suffering, people lose their jobs and the few things they were able to accumulate in decades of hard work and all of that is erased just because governments could not keep themselves from printing more currency.

And what it is even worse is that even if they know this if people try an alternative path like adopting gold or even bitcoin then governments try to ban those options, which show us they only care about their own privileges and their own survival and they do not care about their citizens at all.

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Well, what happens when it goes to zero? It simply gets a reset by the governments and everyone continue on like normal. The eventual end of national currencies are not a big deal anymore, they find excuses and they find innovative ways to "reboot" it, like the US Dollar when it was backed by Gold.

Governments like Zimbabwe just turned to the next Fiat currencies and piggy backed on it to survive and once that fails, they will just latch onto the next reserve currency that survived. Roll Eyes

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Quote from: wxa7115 on April 09, 2021, 04:45:33 PM

Quote from: Gozie51 on March 31, 2021, 02:35:28 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on March 31, 2021, 02:20:31 PM

if at some point we are going to back to gold we need to use gold directly and go back to the old days of carrying gold in our pockets.

Gold system and generation is gone and gone for good. If gold is to be used for money, this will lead to impoverishing of the masses because gold is used as measurement of riches. Therefore it is out of the reach of masses.

Which is why in the rest of my post I said that such a thing was very unlikely, however as I said the gold standard will maybe make a comeback but it is useless, backing paper currency with gold may seem like a good option but governments will always try to cheat the gold standard, that is what happened many years ago and it will happen again if it is implemented.

This is why the only option for those that support gold is that we use the precious metal directly but even that is unlikely as it is better to use something like bitcoin that can be carried surreptitiously and cannot be counterfeited like gold.

indeed bitcoin cannot be counterfeited like gold, where there is no definite supply and the amount is increasing every day. however, because gold is a recognized precious metal, it has been used as the standard for printing fiat currencies to date. and to remember in this case the government can manage everything

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Quote from: Poker Player on March 28, 2021, 12:58:20 AM

Quote from: jaysabi on March 28, 2021, 12:34:00 AM

Quote from: pixie85 on March 22, 2021, 04:59:15 PM

Aren't you forgetting about the British Pound? It lost a lot of value over the year but I don't think it ever went to 0.

Even if we changed it to 99% of fiat money crashes every 300 years, does it mean we have to wait for it to happen? The Lira is dying as we speak but it won't make people lose everything if they get rid of it and invest.

Well done, the Pound has indeed been around for hundreds of years and never gone to zero. OP also ignores all the currencies in use currently that have not gone to zero. The USD has been around for over 220 years as well and depreciates slowly and intentionally and it's worked well for a long time.

But the point here is that even if the statement made by OP is false strictly speaking, the tendency of any fiat currency is going to 0. Both the Pound and the USD have lost more than 99% of their value and they keep going down. So they haven't reached zero yet but they are on their way to.

Nobody alive has ever experienced that type of devaluation because nobody lives long enough to experience it. It's disingenuous to cite how much the dollar has depreciated since 1913 because nobody alive currently had money in 1913 and so nobody has experienced the rates you cite. Further, nobody holds significant savings in fiat currency anyway, it's held in investment classes that actually produce returns, so even over decades of living with a devaluing dollar, nobody experiences the full inflation rate in their lifetimes. Both of these facts together render the inflation issue as grossly overstated by crypto enthusiasts.

SaiyanSS3

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All them worthless fiat money can be collector item too.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Gozie51 on March 31, 2021, 02:35:28 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on March 31, 2021, 02:20:31 PM

if at some point we are going to back to gold we need to use gold directly and go back to the old days of carrying gold in our pockets.

Gold system and generation is gone and gone for good. If gold is to be used for money, this will lead to impoverishing of the masses because gold is used as measurement of riches. Therefore it is out of the reach of masses.

Which is why in the rest of my post I said that such a thing was very unlikely, however as I said the gold standard will maybe make a comeback but it is useless, backing paper currency with gold may seem like a good option but governments will always try to cheat the gold standard, that is what happened many years ago and it will happen again if it is implemented.

This is why the only option for those that support gold is that we use the precious metal directly but even that is unlikely as it is better to use something like bitcoin that can be carried surreptitiously and cannot be counterfeited like gold.

Cling18

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Quote from: BitcoinivaX on March 22, 2021, 03:05:37 PM

Some are afraid that we will return to zero, and every year we move away from it. Over the Past 300 Years, No Fiat Money Has Escaped Going to 0
Listen https://podclips.com/c/maVy2k?ss=r&ss2=bitcoin&d=2021-03-22

There are actually a few fiat currencies that lost it value so that simply means that any fiat currency could possibly drop its value to zero. There's no standard value so anything could happen anytime. There's no stability even in fiat though it's a necessity for us to survive.

Gozie51

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Quote from: wxa7115 on March 31, 2021, 02:20:31 PM

if at some point we are going to back to gold we need to use gold directly and go back to the old days of carrying gold in our pockets.

Gold system and generation is gone and gone for good. If gold is to be used for money, this will lead to impoverishing of the masses because gold is used as measurement of riches. Therefore it is out of the reach of masses.

Quote from: jaysabi on March 28, 2021, 12:34:00 AM

Well done, the Pound has indeed been around for hundreds of years and never gone to zero. OP also ignores all the currencies in use currently that have not gone to zero. The USD has been around for over 220 years as well and depreciates slowly and intentionally and it's worked well for a long time.

I think I know that fiat can be devalued either by the government intentionally or by the economic failure in the society but to go back to zero surely means no importance, relevance of governance because fiat is the strength of government which is the reason of the struggle not to accept bitcoin and cryptocurrency because it doesn't give control to few people in government but to the masses.

wxa7115

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Quote from: posi on March 26, 2021, 05:14:43 AM

The Gold standard is just another naive scheme to build people trust on the fiat system once the people are confident, more investors will hop in and there will be no panic.

I agree on this, the gold standard is also a scam because this is done to generate confidence on the paper currency being issued by the government and once that trust is there they begin to withdraw their support to the gold standard and we are left once again with a fiat currency, if at some point we are going to back to gold we need to use gold directly and go back to the old days of carrying gold in our pockets.

But I think that is very unlikely which is why I think bitcoin is going to be the money of choice of the new generations because you can carry your bitcoin with you very easily and make instantaneous transactions all over the world with just a few clicks.

Anonylz

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Quote from: Mauser on March 23, 2021, 04:43:25 AM

Quote from: BitcoinivaX on March 22, 2021, 03:05:37 PM

Some are afraid that we will return to zero, and every year we move away from it. Over the Past 300 Years, No Fiat Money Has Escaped Going to 0
Listen https://podclips.com/c/maVy2k?ss=r&ss2=bitcoin&d=2021-03-22

The thing with currencies is that they are not connected to any commodity like gold. So once people lose trust in a fiat currency than the value will go down to 0. The same could happen to any crypto currency. But one good thing of fiat currencies is that even if the money becomes worthless there will be a new currency eventually. And the exchange rate for the new currency shouldn't be 0.

I don't the issue is about people losing trust, it is about what is available to transact with, fiat is the universally accepted currency to trade with, and since there is no universally accepted alternative just yet, people will continue to use it whether they loss trust in it or not,

Gold can be a good alternative but it is not so available to the reach of everyone, people trust gold and place a high value to it, but it is rare and not everyone can have access to it and even the government will face challenges making it a mode of transaction.

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Quote from: jaysabi on March 28, 2021, 12:34:00 AM

Quote from: pixie85 on March 22, 2021, 04:59:15 PM

Aren't you forgetting about the British Pound? It lost a lot of value over the year but I don't think it ever went to 0.

Even if we changed it to 99% of fiat money crashes every 300 years, does it mean we have to wait for it to happen? The Lira is dying as we speak but it won't make people lose everything if they get rid of it and invest.

Well done, the Pound has indeed been around for hundreds of years and never gone to zero. OP also ignores all the currencies in use currently that have not gone to zero. The USD has been around for over 220 years as well and depreciates slowly and intentionally and it's worked well for a long time.

But the point here is that even if the statement made by OP is false strictly speaking, the tendency of any fiat currency is going to 0. Both the Pound and the USD have lost more than 99% of their value and they keep going down. So they haven't reached zero yet but they are on their way to.

jaysabi

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Quote from: pixie85 on March 22, 2021, 04:59:15 PM

Aren't you forgetting about the British Pound? It lost a lot of value over the year but I don't think it ever went to 0.

Even if we changed it to 99% of fiat money crashes every 300 years, does it mean we have to wait for it to happen? The Lira is dying as we speak but it won't make people lose everything if they get rid of it and invest.

Well done, the Pound has indeed been around for hundreds of years and never gone to zero. OP also ignores all the currencies in use currently that have not gone to zero. The USD has been around for over 220 years as well and depreciates slowly and intentionally and it's worked well for a long time.

CarnagexD

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I guess it's just the way of life to tell us how measly money is compared to much more important things in this planet. Although of course, in the current society we live in, money is forcibly integrated into every sector making it very hard for people without money to fit and live a content life in the current state of the planet. Then again, this is what cryptocurrencies are for, let's just hope for the best and believe that this will not happen to crypto.

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Quote from: tyz on March 26, 2021, 06:19:24 AM

Quote from: pixie85 on March 22, 2021, 04:59:15 PM

Aren't you forgetting about the British Pound? It lost a lot of value over the year but I don't think it ever went to 0.

Even if we changed it to 99% of fiat money crashes every 300 years, does it mean we have to wait for it to happen? The Lira is dying as we speak but it won't make people lose everything if they get rid of it and invest.

Fair point. This piqued my interest and I realized for the first time that the British pound has been around since 1209. On Statista there is a statistic about how the value of the pound has changed from then to now.

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1031884/value-pound-sterling-since/

The value is indeed close to zero, but probably not quite zero. Interestingly, there was even a period in the late Middle Ages when the pound remained very stable for over 300 years.

The thing about pound back then and pound now (well about almost each money historically and today) is the fact that today's problem lies within the capitalist system making its own decision to grow bigger in numbers to show the world it is profiting while destroying the worth of money.

Wealthy people would rather print 10 trillion dollars, give 9 trillion of it to rich people, and 1 trillion to poor people so they can spend on places rich people have and gain that 1 trillion as well, and make their money worthless basically however they will be capable of showing increasing profits on their shareholder meeting. That's literally it, as long as companies can show that they have made billions in profit, they are fine that those billions worth less money than few million hundred years ago, they do not care about the power of their money, they only care about what they have.

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Quote from: pixie85 on March 22, 2021, 04:59:15 PM

Aren't you forgetting about the British Pound? It lost a lot of value over the year but I don't think it ever went to 0.

Even if we changed it to 99% of fiat money crashes every 300 years, does it mean we have to wait for it to happen? The Lira is dying as we speak but it won't make people lose everything if they get rid of it and invest.

Fair point. This piqued my interest and I realized for the first time that the British pound has been around since 1209. On Statista there is a statistic about how the value of the pound has changed from then to now.

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1031884/value-pound-sterling-since/

The value is indeed close to zero, but probably not quite zero. Interestingly, there was even a period in the late Middle Ages when the pound remained very stable for over 300 years.

Kong Hey Pakboy

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I think that Belarusian Ruble counts as a fiat money that has gone to 0 because I watched a Youtube video where they are spotting scammers that are exchanging Belarusian ruble for euros instead of the local currency of Czech Republic with tourists as their main target and they said that the Belarusian ruble is useless and many people fall for that scam. As long as the government in each countries is still standing then the value of fiat will not go down to 0 and the only time that it will happen is when there is a fiat phase out or a total war.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on March 25, 2021, 06:04:13 PM

Quote from: posi on March 22, 2021, 08:05:34 PM

This is the first time I hear something like this about fiat currency and this is the reason why the government shouldn't be totally trust because they usually say/do things that will be profitable to themselves while they keeping lying to us about the history and the in-depth issue of fiat currency. I believe people like Kiyosaki have already known this which is why he also supported Bitcoin last year but why the government didn't totally support Bitcoin so people can benefit from it.
With that been said, after search the above quotation as advised by Hydrogen and I find out that the issue was once addressed on this forum before.

Really? It is probably the worst kept secret in the history of the world, fiat currencies never work long term, they may seem to do so but governments get overconfident, they think they have finally mastered the art of printing all the money they want without destroying their economies only to discover too late this is not the case.

Now some people may argue that a currency or two are defying those expectations but what they do not understand is that those currencies already fell before and were rescued by going back to the gold standard for a time in order to avoid the complete destruction of the currency and once things were stable then the currencies became fiat again.

From my own perspective, it not that governments was overconfident about printing of more fiat currency will destroy the economy but they are printing more currency scheduled to the money they are going to gain from it, if thets not the IMF have once advised the minimization of cash printing and the integration of CBDC why are they still adamant? These are what Satoshi sees and he decided to create something for the people rather than the government taking advantage of us.

The Gold standard is just another naive scheme to build people trust on the fiat system once the people are confident, more investors will hop in and there will be no panic.

wxa7115

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Quote from: posi on March 22, 2021, 08:05:34 PM

This is the first time I hear something like this about fiat currency and this is the reason why the government shouldn't be totally trust because they usually say/do things that will be profitable to themselves while they keeping lying to us about the history and the in-depth issue of fiat currency. I believe people like Kiyosaki have already known this which is why he also supported Bitcoin last year but why the government didn't totally support Bitcoin so people can benefit from it.
With that been said, after search the above quotation as advised by Hydrogen and I find out that the issue was once addressed on this forum before.

Really? It is probably the worst kept secret in the history of the world, fiat currencies never work long term, they may seem to do so but governments get overconfident, they think they have finally mastered the art of printing all the money they want without destroying their economies only to discover too late this is not the case.

Now some people may argue that a currency or two are defying those expectations but what they do not understand is that those currencies already fell before and were rescued by going back to the gold standard for a time in order to avoid the complete destruction of the currency and once things were stable then the currencies became fiat again.

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Quote from: Scripture on March 23, 2021, 07:52:21 AM

Quote from: BitcoinivaX on March 22, 2021, 03:05:37 PM

Some are afraid that we will return to zero, and every year we move away from it. Over the Past 300 Years, No Fiat Money Has Escaped Going to 0
Listen https://podclips.com/c/maVy2k?ss=r&ss2=bitcoin&d=2021-03-22

There's a lot of fiat money that become worthless because of growing technology and of course, central banks are improving the fiat system and that's why many are just part of the history and no value anymore but of course fiat money will remain on our system and it will never be replaced. Many believes that Bitcoin will replace fiat currency, and for me this is just a hype because government will not allow this one and many are still not knowledgeable about bitcoin, so it wont happen in the near future.

I agree that fiat currencies will not be supplanted by anything, including cryptocurrencies. The states tightly control this and will not allow anyone to do this.
The national currencies of states can be subject to varying degrees of inflation, but in principle it cannot fall to zero. After all, it is provided with the material assets of the state that are in circulation. It also cannot become useless due to the development of new technologies. In any case, I do not know of such examples.

jaberwock

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Quote from: BitcoinivaX on March 22, 2021, 03:05:37 PM

Some are afraid that we will return to zero, and every year we move away from it. Over the Past 300 Years, No Fiat Money Has Escaped Going to 0
Listen https://podclips.com/c/maVy2k?ss=r&ss2=bitcoin&d=2021-03-22

I get that fiat has to deal with inflation and that's why many fiat currencies bankrupted back in the day, and we have our current system which is making it harder and harder to live, because money is printed constantly to keep the rich rich and keep the poor not dying, and that is why I think it is going to end up with something terrible with the current ones we have.

However realize that all the gods that we "used" to believe are a joke now, Zeus was once believed and worshiped, made statues about him, songs written for him, and now it is a joke and I do not think that anyone left to believe him, doesn't mean current religion will be gone as well. That is why I think governments will do whatever it takes to keep their currency going high, that is what we are going to face with, there is really nothing left to do but save because if not they are going to end up worse than anyone in history since this fiat bubble got so high.

Topic: Over the Past 300 Years, No Fiat Money Has Escaped Going to 0 (Read 426 times)