Pandora papers <== They said Bitcoin was used to avoid taxes! Think again

amishmanish

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Quote from: slaman29 on October 04, 2021, 08:51:50 AM

If people didn't take action the first and second time around (I don't know how many papers and wikileaks already went out) then I don't see why this should be any different.

They made big movies, big books, big media reports about Panama Papers and guess what, many names on that HUGE list are still busy making their fortunes and hiding their money. The papers simply alerted them and made them move away.

Trust me, now they'll publish news about Bitcoin money laundering to make people forget this.

THIS!

Nothing really happens anymore it seems. There is a sense of acceptance that no matter what we do, things cannot change. Personally for me, maybe it is the effect of age because I'd say that I definitely didnt feel this way 10-15 years earlier and every case of injustice used to be a chance to organize and protest.

Its not like that the protests don't happen now. The biggest problem is nexus between mass media and everyone else. Mass media has completely lost credibility and Social media does not have enough effect. Such news come and go and nobody bothers. People are more interested in trolling those on the other side of political spectrum. The politicians and Social Media has come together to make people fight against people (no better example than the USA). As we are all busy fighting each other, there is not time at hand to make the politicians accountable. Thus, everything goes.

cmg777

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The Pandora papers only indicate that there are merely more people in the mainstream hoarding soon to be worthless fiat and surprisingly their tax evasion and hoarding of it gives fiat value. If they were to spend it then it would only show how worthless it can be. It looks like more will be printed soon and crypto will moon once again. Crypto and BTC is fast money and for that the bankers are jealous and want their cut of the fiat money or possibly in the future CBDC.

Tash

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Pandora Papers, only 32 times the market cap of Bitcoinin in tax evasion.
https://www.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/

slaman29

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Quote from: tomahawk9 on October 04, 2021, 10:24:20 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on October 04, 2021, 08:51:50 AM

Trust me, now they'll publish news about Bitcoin money laundering to make people forget this.

tbf, "they" don't really need to anything to bury this story. The general public will forget about this in a month or two and move on to the next big story (just like it happened with the panama papers scandal a few years ago) because that's just how the current world actually works, information travels so fast and there's so much of it on a daily/weekly/monthly basis that, yeah you can discuss about the hot topic for a few days but, we all need to make room for the next big thing that's coming.

About how they are gonna depict btc in a bad light, it's gonna be just another day in the office for these people, isn't it? Since the media is controlled by "them", it's fairly easy to manipulate and bombard the average joe 24/7 on the tv and news on the internet with whatever fits their agenda. But the pandora papers? this story will get scrapped from the teleprompters very, very soon

Yeah, that's what I said, like Panama everyone is shocked but nothing happened

They don't need to but they will. In Jordan in fact the entire country's internet blocked the ICJ website in fact even hours before the news came out, meaning to say someone was already tipped off there that this would come out. So we even know that ICJ itself has people corrupt enough to do that. And then after the news, the state media already put out stuff. That's just the king of Jordan everyone knows is corrupt.

ranochigo

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Money laundering exists with all currencies, not just Bitcoin, not just fiat but anything that is valuable. Problem with Bitcoin is that it is disproportionately easier and cheaper to launder them than fiat which requires several shell companies and different jurisdiction. This makes it suitable for people who are looking for tax evasion or cover up their tracks without having to spend too much, but again privacy coins might be better.

Problem with the scheme is that Bitcoin's market cap is nowhere near enough for it to be conducive. It is far better for money to be laundered through fiat than Bitcoin, at least for the time being. Especially since it is harder to convert it back into fiat as well.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Zedpastin on October 04, 2021, 07:51:42 AM

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There will be no jail sentences for these rich people and politicians but if it was me or you we would be put in jail for tax evasion.

No surprise there. Politicians are like a protected class. In 99% of the cases, they don't get charged even if they do some crime and even on rare occasions they get charged, they manage to get rid of those charges in no time. Here in India, the legal system has become a joke. One of the billionaires, Anil Ambani has pending loans worth more than $20 billion due to various public and private banks. He claims that he can't repay them, as he has become bankrupt. But as per the Panama papers, he has stashed billions of USD worth of assets abroad. A few other names from India (Sachin Tendulkar,Kiran Mazumdar Shawe.etc) are included, but this guy's name stands out.

cabron

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I read some articles about it, they are revealing a lot of people but noticed there are no American politicians on the list. Isn't that very selective?

How this may affect Bitcoin is probably non. But this could be something of an argument in the future which the government will ask strict regulation to crypto for things like these offshore or tax evasion schemes to not happen in crypto.

aoluain

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Quote from: Lucius on October 04, 2021, 05:25:42 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on October 03, 2021, 01:50:16 PM

These are the people who are making the rules and also breaking the rules...... So this is a big "fuck you" to them.... Wink

It is something that has existed for thousands of years, those at the top have always used their position and power, only the methods have changed - from the dark basements of castles to closed mines, to secret accounts in tax havens. They just continue the tradition of their ancestors, and no matter all the Pandora’s boxes that open with their dirty secrets, rest assured that they are still doing it and no one can do anything to them. Yet what is the greatest tragedy in the whole story is the fact that they were all elected in a fair election, and some will be elected again - if not directly, then their successors.

Bitcoin is a small baby compared to a financial system that is broken to the core, but the most powerful 10% of people in the world will do their best to save it.

Its quite disgusting really, to think that those wealthy people can afford to pay their
dues and taxes also have the knowledge, avenues and help to evade them. The general
public dont get to be part of that corrupt, privaledged system of hoarding wealth.

Bitcoin is a small baby but it offers an alternative to that broken system, unfortunately
those corrupt people have access to it too.

These Pandora papers are all over the news, whats going to happen? what are the
consequences going to be? and yea I would imagine this is only one of many pandoras
boxes.

We got to hand it to the investigative journalists involved in uncovering this, very intriguing.

maju69

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What the brand is doing is distorting the truth of Bitcoin, so the conglomerates deliberately trigger Bitcoin as if it were a threat but instead Bitcoin is a form of openness of transactions with Blockchain as public data.
From this news, of course, we can see that illegal transactions that have been carried out for years have been hidden from the public and only opened this year. This is the bad side of centralized finance that is actually played by certain parties.

bitgov

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Ok I do agree that some of this money might have been deposited via bitcoin, what about the rest of money that goes via fiat channels? The real point is leaders from mostly poor nation loot the money and deposit in banks of rich countries. This practise has been there for decades yet no one touch that aspect. Read the document you will find mostly leaders of underdeveloped countries.
Between none in the links posted by OP there is clue that money goes via bitcoin.

Silberman

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Quote from: JeromeTash on October 03, 2021, 04:20:16 PM

What they are always scared of Bitcoin is the fact that they can't control it and print more money to their liking. So what the politicians do with the growing popularity of Bitcoin is to try as much as possible to tint its image and link it to lots of criminal activities such as money laundering, tax evasion, drug trafficking etc

But we all know that crime didn't just start yesterdays when Bitcoin started operating. They just don't tell us the ugly side of their so-called "perfect" fiat currencies

Another thing they do not like of bitcoin is that it gives ever single person the ability to do what they are doing, it is true that bitcoin is being used mostly for legal stuff and there are a few bad apples out there using it for their crimes, but they do not like the fact bitcoin levels the playing field, with fiat the only ones that can get away with something like this are the rich and powerful but with a coin that makes no distinctions like bitcoin this means that even a middle class person could do it and they do not like this one bit.

Fortify

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Quote from: Kakmakr on October 03, 2021, 01:50:16 PM

So... for years we have been hearing that Bitcoin are being used to hide criminals wealth or that it is being used for tax evasion... Well, I have news for you....

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/pandora-papers-biggest-ever-leak-of-offshore-data-exposes-financial-secrets-of-rich-and-powerful

"The secret deals and hidden assets of some of the world’s richest and most powerful people have been revealed in the biggest trove of leaked offshore data in history."

"They expose the secret offshore affairs of 35 world leaders, including current and former presidents, prime ministers and heads of state."

https://www.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/global-investigation-tax-havens-offshore/

"The secret documents expose offshore dealings of the King of Jordan, the presidents of Ukraine, Kenya and Ecuador, the prime minister of the Czech Republic and former British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The files also detail financial activities of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s “unofficial minister of propaganda” and more than 130 billionaires from Russia, the United States, Turkey and other nations."

"At least $11.3 trillion is held “offshore,” according to a 2020 study by the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

These are the people who are making the rules and also breaking the rules...... So this is a big "fuck you" to them.... Wink

Well, one being true does not make the other untrue. You can launder money with Bitcoin and you can launder money with offshore companies. What everyone around the world should really be concerned with is all these "offshore" banking jurisdictions and they need to be looked at in the same league as terrorists. Places like South Dakota, The British Virgin Islands, etc. that help these multi-millionaires hide their money are a leach on society and are only out to help a tiny fraction of people in the world. Like 0.0001% of people are using these places to steal money from the billions of people on these planets and frankly - these are the worst countries in the world and are funding the worst crimes out there. Offshore needs to become synonymous with absolute scum and any country that supports such financing should be cut off from the world. That includes countries like the UK and the USA who have certain privacy laws that are manipulated, which benefit when the smaller countries are shutdown.

dkbit98

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If you are still trusting anything your government and politicians are telling you, then I have to say that I am sorry but you have been totally brainwashed and borderline stupid human being.
You don't have to study just this Pandora papers, you can also study history and see that politicians are making rules and regulations only for slave classes and they are always exempted from this.
Pandora papers are only a small drop in ocean of greed and corruption, and I am not sure if Bitcoin or anything else can fix this but at least we don't have to witness non-stop lying and manipulations.
Step one: throw away your stupid TV propaganda machine.
Step two: start using Bitcoin

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: Kakmakr on October 03, 2021, 01:50:16 PM

So... for years we have been hearing that Bitcoin are being used to hide criminals wealth or that it is being used for tax evasion... Well, I have news for you....

This doesn't prove that Bitcoin is not being used by criminals. It only shows that high profile criminals and money launderers use established fiat money schemes that existed long before Bitcoin was created. Big surprise.

How can you know that all those people don't own Bitcoin? If they bought it through their shadow connections and masked their traces well, the only way to catch them is if they slip up when they try to spend their BTC.

You can't simultaneously claim that Bitcoin is great because it can't be seized and it has some privacy, but then say that criminals don't use it.

I think there's no publicly known cases of large Bitcoin stashes owned by criminals because one type of criminals, like drug dealers, has piles of cash and they don't see a point in converting it all to Bitcoin, while the other type of criminals, like those country leaders, have access to laundering tools like offshore companies, and they basically control the country so there's no one to investigate them properly. This leaves Bitcoin, or more like privacycoins, only good for hackers, street-level drug dealers and other criminals that deal with millions, not billions.

NotFuzzyWarm

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The papers are a big yawn. Most if not all of the people 'called out' have made NO attempts to hide what they are doing. They are just using the common and fully legal practice of shielding income by using off-shore investments. Their respective governments know about it and for the most part do not care.

Vaskiy

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Pandora Papers have revealed data about popular faces of my country. It includes the cricketer Sachin Tendulkar. These people have never given any statement relative to bitcoin or any of the cryptocurrency. I believe most of the popular faces have invested indirectly on cryptocurrency without revealing any information to thr outer world. In the news on the regional channels it hasn't mentioned that these people have got more properties and investments made beyond their earnings. Nowhere it is said about the medium as bitcoin. So, different way the news is getting circulated.

tomahawk9

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Quote from: slaman29 on October 04, 2021, 08:51:50 AM

Trust me, now they'll publish news about Bitcoin money laundering to make people forget this.

tbf, "they" don't really need to anything to bury this story. The general public will forget about this in a month or two and move on to the next big story (just like it happened with the panama papers scandal a few years ago) because that's just how the current world actually works, information travels so fast and there's so much of it on a daily/weekly/monthly basis that, yeah you can discuss about the hot topic for a few days but, we all need to make room for the next big thing that's coming.

About how they are gonna depict btc in a bad light, it's gonna be just another day in the office for these people, isn't it? Since the media is controlled by "them", it's fairly easy to manipulate and bombard the average joe 24/7 on the tv and news on the internet with whatever fits their agenda. But the pandora papers? this story will get scrapped from the teleprompters very, very soon

Darker45

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These people haven't learned their lessons. There was the Panama Papers, and then there was also the Paradise Papers, and now the Pandora Papers. They were trying to be hiding something; they were trying to circumvent the law, albeit in an obsolete and foolish way. It's just a matter of time before a leak takes place. There will certainly be footprints in what they are doing. They cannot hide their wealth forever in this way.

Some of these people might have attacked Bitcoin for being a currency of criminals and launderers. Well, the only difference is that money laundering in Bitcoin is perhaps more effective.

We always hear the criticism that Bitcoin is used for money laundering. Well, probably. And as far as money laundering is concerned, I'd say kudos to the updated and technology-savvy launderers. I'm not just justifying money laundering, but if one has to launder, one better do it the modern way.

suzanne5223

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The Pandora papers which were said to contain the list of the most powerful people in the world that had some hidden wealth, avoiding tax, and money laundering will prove to the world that cryptocurrency is merely used for money laundering while most laundering is done through fiat currency. In meantime, I believe Ras Al Khaimah will be among the offshore companies used by these powerful people cause offshore was said to be in existence for over 7000 years.

This is going to be fun.

slaman29

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If people didn't take action the first and second time around (I don't know how many papers and wikileaks already went out) then I don't see why this should be any different.

They made big movies, big books, big media reports about Panama Papers and guess what, many names on that HUGE list are still busy making their fortunes and hiding their money. The papers simply alerted them and made them move away.

Trust me, now they'll publish news about Bitcoin money laundering to make people forget this.

Topic: Pandora papers <== They said Bitcoin was used to avoid taxes! Think again (Read 308 times)