Topic: Paper can easily get ruined, fast. (Read 493 times)

True, your memory can fail, writing it down on paper is not a good idea because it can be quickly destroyed by natural factors like water, fire, and others, and trying to memorize it is very dangerous. Rather, avoid placing it anyplace that will be visible, such as on your refrigerator or a bulletin board, and save it in a number of secure places, such as the bank and other secure locations. Above all, avoid saving it online because that's where most individuals want to save their seed phrase. Because they can no longer access their seed phrase, the majority of people have lost their money. This is bad, so exercise caution when keeping your phrase.

you don't underestimate paper,
smart people like to read books,
you yourself go to school using books,
even notes in books are safer than on mobile phones or the internet, because books cannot be hacked, unless stolen, even though they are safer on paper,
even to write a digital wallet address is safer in the book,
don't you ever think the book or paper is not safe,
because basically want on paper, on stone, on cellphones, and so on,
there must be a risk.

When I graduated from the University and obtained my first degree, I was offered my certificate (transcript) on a paper 🗞️ and when I also rounded up NYSC (National Yought Service Corps), I was also given the certificate on a paper. I really value this two Cert, so I vividly protect them at all cost by putting it in a glass wear case sealed with metal. That is a way I also protect my wallet seed phrase, write it down on a paper and save it in a glass box sealed with metal.

If you are trying to secure your wallet private key you have to be very careful, private key is a very sensitive security key which you shouldn't toy with, have seen losts of people asking you to write it on paper and storing it in different places, but I think instead of writing it on paper it's better you get a metal plate and carve it on it, if you get a multiple metal plates then you carve it on them and secure then in different places atleast that will protect your private key from some natural disaster like water disaster and fire disaster and you will have multiple backup.
I notice a mistake some newbies always make, some of them always secure their private key online which is very wrong, your should make sure anywhere you are securing your wallet address, their should not be internet connection to be at a safer side.

Ah, I understand now, as the way you put it it looked like you are keeping seed on your mobile phone. Still, I do hope that your mobile wallet is not your main one as those are far from being secure for long term hodl. They are good enough (if you are using open-source non custodial one) for a sort of hot wallet store where you keep crypto for every day use, but if I am you I would consider getting one of the hardware wallets as you can find good ones for less than $100.

What I meant is that, since I have my crypto wallet address on my phone, I can still get the seed phrase from there. I haven't for once stored my recovery seed phrase on my phone. That's what am trying to explain

Since you are that interested in using paper wallet i will advise you get your keys inscribed on a metalic material that can be indestructible, safeguard the material and if possible have another copy of it making two and save them in two different locations, this method is the best and most recommended of other means of handling, if you make use of laminating it on paper it can only be waterproof but fire can burn it up, using a metalic material can withstand both fire and water disaster.

There is no way that you can lose your phone? LOL.  Saving seed on your phone is one of the worst places possible to store something as sensitive as seed is. Not only that you can lose the phone, someone can steal it as well, or your phone may suddenly stop working without you being able to switch it on ever again (something like that happened to me despite it being relatively new Samsung flagship model). So no, you are not well prepared at all.

My advice for you is to delete the seed from your phone asap and instead save a copy at your parent's house, or whoever you can trust with something like that.

I have for once, think about such a scenario. What gives me the courage not to worry or think about it much was that I will still have my phone to fall back on to recover my seed phrases, if a peradventure happens. There is no way I can lose my phone and the paper I wrote down my recovery seed phrases will get burnt in natural disasters at the same time. I will either have one with me. Which is my phone that has my crypto wallet address

Writing seed phrases on paper is the simplest and most secured way of keeping your keys safe, this practice is 100% offline so there is no chance of revealing those valuable words to sneaky eyes.

You are right that paper easily gets destroyed but there are ways to secure your paper, it's better to use a book instead and store that book in a safe with lock or key combination lock.

You can also carve the seed words on a iron like steel, and keep the steel in a safe with a security lock.

These are probably the things which we should avoid while safely keeping our seed phrase and you are going the wrong way.Do you think the human mind is capable of memorizing the 12-24 words in complete order for whole lifetime? You could easily mess that up and brute forcing will not be an option to you.

Storing it on notes on mobile is risky as what if your phone is lost? Your seed inside your phone will be used to take out your funds by importing it to any wallet that supports BIP-39 and then you will regret.Any security lock on it is breakable as it's easy to do such things so don't go this way and prefer offline modes only.

That's why it is good to have a different copy of this seed into your place and of course you want to become safe and not getting prone and vulnerable to the hackers paper is the best but because of it's too much fragile it is good to have a lot of copies of it to make sure you don't miss out incase you lose it but of course for sure no one will forgot those wallet if there's a large amount of assets.

You are right that it's not a good idea to memorize the seed phrase instead of writing it down. You should always keep your seed phrase in a safe place and never trust your memory. But take note that a seed phrase includes meaningful words and they are not case sensitive. Also, a seed phrase usually includes 12 words.

This is really the worst idea in my opinion, who can remember more than 20 words containing uppercase and lowercase characters, it's not an easy thing to do especially for a long time.

How sure are you that the recovery phrase will be safe there. I don't recommend saving the backup recovery phrase in the above way, it's too risky for me. You should consider choosing the media or place as you mentioned because it is very vulnerable to the risk of being lost or damaged.

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If you don't want to have the same fate as this user, then consider storing the recovery phrase in a safer place.

Doesnt really mean you need to write it down on a piece of paper. It could be somewhere durable or anything that could withstand any possible scenarios such as flood or fire.

Therr is a simple one or lamination. But to think a very high act of hazard could happened. It alsways better to have back up. Or to be more secure then write it on paper, cover it with something strong bury it on a place no one would find or dig it below and put it there. There are some ways to remedy this, you just need to be creative and wise to protect it.

It's better to engrave it to a metal steel or aluminum bar rather than relying on a piece of paper. In this way no matter if it's exposed to flame or water, you've got no problem as it won't get destroyed.

Seed phrases should be treated like our bank pin like doing whatever it takes to make sure we still have it even with the effect of natural disasters.

Bank pins can be memorized easily, but not seed phrases or private keys. Do whatever it takes for these seed phrases to be protected even if it means that we are greatly affected by these natural disasters in the future.

Two written locations is good for people who are very careful and always remember this locations. But I don't think it will be good for everyone,  some people are very careless to handle just one location.

No matter how good the memory is, it should not be completely trusted. Human memory is very fragile and the slightest injury or disease can destroy the information about seed phrase stored in memory. Even paper wallet can be better and more reliable in comparison. Even despite its vulnerability to fire, acids and other methods of destruction. But this can be fixed thanks to external storage, in the form of a metal capsule and a box. The disadvantages of one material can always be compensated by the properties of another.

Good question- I think the best possible way in order to secure your recovery seed while not compromising its safety is to store them in a sealed deposit box. Generally, you can get a deposit box and have it deposited in your local bank for safekeeping. Maybe another method would be to properly store it in your own safety box for maximum security.

Given that there is really nothing secured in the internet, I highly advise you to keep or store it digitally as it may be susceptible of hacking. At the end of the day, it all boils down to the least likely event that would happen as anything can definitely happen- just go with the lower chances of happening.

Putting them in two different locations would prevent this. Disaster proof is not so reliable as there are many variables to consider.

A safe way of being relatively secured is having more than one safe locations. A disaster would not likely hit both (or more) of the locations at the exact same time.

Natural disaster can affect seed phrase written in a book. But if you can still keep the seed phrase safe just the way you value your certificates,  I think it will be safe. Sometimes what makes us lose our seed phrase is carelessness by not keeping it in a proper place.

One day, a piece of some heavy substance that falls on the head, or an accidental but strong enough blow to the head, completely knocks out all the information about seed phrases and, in general, about one's own name. As a result, relying on one's own strength is such an occupation.
It has already been advised many times how to save your seed phrases. I think you should not invent a bicycle. Special paranoid agents can be advised to use all the methods at once in case of any catastrophe, including an alien attack.

What you thought you have memorized and knew for years can still be forgotten. Haven't that happened to you before? It has happened to me. I was surprised that I forgot my highschool anthem after many years that I finished from the school. That is just one example, there are many. If you check my posts on this thread, the memorization I am talking about should be the fourth backup while not depending on it. The best are offline backups.

Memorizing the seed phrase will be okay if the person is really good in memorization.
For the seed being placed on any devices/documents/websites, I think it will be good to encrypt it rather than just putting the exact same words. Still both of these will not work for everyone, so I think people should stick on how can they properly manage to store their seeds.

Writing your seed phrase on paper is the simplest method of safeguarding your crypto. It’s old school but it beats storing you keys on digital notes. Make different copies of your seed phrase and store in different locations. This might be interesting, Coinsutra.com in their article listed Stonebook Notebook as one of the most secure ways to  store Cryptocurrency Seed Words. There are other options one might try like storing your phrase in crossword puzzles, or like @Iroh memorizing your seeds. The problem with this two options is that it will be difficult upon for the family to figure out the phrase upon the death of the owner. Engraving your seed phrases on metal steel seems excessive to me though it may appeal to certain people. I would strongly recommend the stonebook approach as it is more secure and somewhat durable

But what about natural disasters? It can affect large areas in a way even if the seed phrase is backup in different locations, the whole house and many other houses can be distroyed and everything is lost. It is not good to depend on memory, but there can be sometimes that it can be helpful. Have offline backups on papers in different locations is advisable, that is true, but what can be done if natural disasters like earthquake or flooding occur in a way someone's home is affected, property destroyed and the three seed phrase in different locations all got lost?

Assuming someone is in Pakistan when that flooding began?

Mistake can happen in a way the one seed phrase backup would be lost? At least, have two backups or three. The second or third can even be inside the wall of your house to be the last thing to do if the first seed phrase is lost. Another one can be inside your mattress in a way you can loose the mattress cloth, cut the mattress foam with a blade and insert the seed phrase paper backup, gum the mattress foam back with glue in a way the seed phrase is not affected and sole back the cloth. Another is a paper at your backyard buried under the sand in a very small metallic box. There are many ways you can think to backup seed phrase differently that it would be difficult for anyone to see it. But which may not resist natural disaster.

Cloud backup sites tend to be secure, and therefore in some sense safer than storing them on your own local computer. That said, I would still recommend storing your important documents and sensitive information on a physical device instead of in the cloud. To be extra safe, you can keep multiple copies in different locations. That way, if something happens to your cloud storage provider or the server that holds your data, you won't lose everything. As with any online service, there is always a chance that the company could go out of business or be hacked. It is also worth noting that some online backup services are more secure than others. And, it is also important to note that sensitive data should never be stored in digital format unless it is encrypted.

In the modern age, where people are so connected via the internet, it can sometimes be difficult to control who has access to your information and what they are able to do with it. Unfortunately, as is all too obvious from recent events, this also means that security becomes a key concern. The truth is that hackers are always looking for new ways to get data, and we all have to be cautious about protecting our sensitive information.

You can purchase steel Bitcoin seed storage; or if you want to go for something cheaper, you can simply purchase steel sheets and just go stamp in the words/numbers.

Jameson Lopp has made stress tests on steel seed storages available for purchase: https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/

You can use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Mnemonic-Metal-Private-Keys-Disassembled/dp/B08CRCBGXY

Maybe you never hear about Stonebook, a paper which have water and tear resistant


the material is different with other paper (pulp), Stonebook is a mixture from stone pulp. so it's strong enough. But still, Nothing is perfect, not so fireproof.

And, human error is one of the biggest mistakes in the world. It's useless if you keep mnemonic seeds in the safest storage in the world if still careless.

And that is why storage like this one was developed:

https://cryptosteel.com/

Or better yet, I would suggest you read this thread by @OcTradism, Store your bitcoin seed / private key safely (Water, Fire, Shock-proof).

Or just used your imagination on how and where to put your seed and it is also not easily be readable by ordinary people.

And I would agree that paper is really not good to put your back up seed, recently I have this accident that I spill water on one of my books that has the seed in it. Fortunately I have a lot of places that I put my seed so I was able to recover those easy.

Scrub it or carve it on steel, could be stainless steel they are easier to carve something on.

If your house will get crushed by big flood, you might lose even a seed stamped on on steel sheets, because it would be carried by water. Worst case, someone else will find it take all your coins. Similarly, if your house burns down, you might be able unable to find a steel plate, because there will be too much debris. Again, worst case - you won't be the first person to discover your seed. So in some way the ease of destruction is a feature. Or if your house is about to be raided by armed people - you can eat or burn a piece of paper, but you can't do anything to a steel plate.

 
This might be a good idea and I have seen many people recommend it which means many people do it. But I have this feeling that something that is saved more than one place is no longer safe.
You could forget one of the places you saved it or saving it more than one place will increase the chances of it being exposed.

Besides, a secret shared to one or two persons is no longer a secret.
I'll recommend that you find one secure location or means and save it, your mind will always be there and you will not lose it.
People from the Christian background will know this statement "Where ever your wealth is, there will your mind be"

This your method looks very risky and if we store our private keys in this form then we might lost it if our gadgets like phones or computer get hacked. We know that hacking of wallets is one of the ways many investors had lost there funds because of carelessness or lack of adequate info on how to protect there wallets from hackers.

I have seen so many ways we can protect our private keys from getting destroyed either by water or fire in that eventually occurs. There are tools and gadgets that are water resistant we can store or write our keys on that could make it safer from natural disasters or hackers.

Dod you ever came across a video where this guy make a back up of his wallet on a metal if you want to know how would you keep your seed phrase safe from disaster such as fire, floods but if there's not much disaster then using paper to write it won't be a problem and it's much better if you laminate the paper to make it much durable compared to paper only to write your wallet information. I have done the same thing where I wrote it on a piece of paper then laminated the paper.

Yea, paper can destroy and happen anything. If you have just one copy then you would lose your funds. Your device and paper that you wrote seed destroyed for any reason mean everything is gone. I don't think we memorize seed phrases anyway. The best practice is to keep it in safe places and not only a single copy. All the important seeds should have multiple copies, so all shouldn't be destroyed at once.

I must admit, committing the seed phase to memory isn’t really ideal as one can always mix them up.
Personally, I prefer not to write and store  passwords and important notes on paper

There are different ways you can secure your seed phrase. this are some of the ways you can also keep your seed phrase in very secure and safe place. Click and see more https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/securing-your-seed-phrase-with-washers-5389446, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-best-to-secure-your-private-keys-andor-seed-phrase-5211880, and this for basically on paper wallet https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/paper-wallet-a-poor-practice-and-risky-5383839


Laminating paper wallet can not guarantee its safety. Laminating it might keep it longer than usual. Even the laminating paper washed out. I have laminated a National ID card because the original one has not came out, but after some months I discovered that the write on the ID card were fade and when I asked someone told me that the heat that is inside the paper did. That is when I came to understand that laminating is not the best option of a document safety. Since there is no best to secure paper wallet, you just have to duplicate it and keep it in different place like rooms and houses.

Many own land properties, school certificate, car ownership, and many other things in our names that the proof are on a piece of paper or pages of papers. They can still get demolished by lots of factor regardless we still try our own personal best to keep them safe. Why is writing down your seed phase on a sheet of paper sounds like it's never been done before.

Well what I personally do I not writing them on just a piece of paper alone, I have several places I have written it down in different locations I can assess and no one else can decipher. Multiple options can help reduce the risk your fear.

Neither of those ideas are any good really:

-   Committing to memory 12 or 24 words in a given order is not an easy feat, and just try letting some time go by to see how that plays out.

-   Having the seed on any online device can be subject to things like losing the phone, being hacked (i.e. malware), confiding in a random note app which may be doing God knows what and so forth.

You could always have it memorized.
You could also go on your mobile, to the notes app probably already installed on your device and have it written and stored there. Then safeguard it all with a password or whatever security lock your device uses.

To avoid natural disasters like earthquake, landslide, flooding or many others like that, it is good to have your seed phrase offhand. This is not advisable at all, it is good to backup your seed phrase in different places instead, but after that, you can have it offhand, but do not depend on your memory at all, but it may be helpful.

Write out your recovery phrase on a paper, laminate it and make many backups, then put them in more than one or two locations, there is no other alternative that can be better than simply writing your recovery phrase on a paper, and it is cost effective too. If you are unsure about that, you can engrave your seed phrase on a metal steel, either by buying the steel from companies that sell them, or if you can make one for yourself, then you can go ahead and do so. But from my research: Never give somebody else your recovery phrase to help you engrave it into a metal steel, you must learn how to do it yourself if you must use it.

Needless to add that in a natural disaster you may be worried about better things like your life, and that of your family than your bitcoin funds, and if you manage to save your life and lose your money, you should be happy .

There is no paper wallet or books that are water resistance or fire resistance, how are you protecting yourself from natural disasters that can affect your recovery seed when you wrote it down in a book, big note or paper...