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Topic: PayPal Integrating Bitcoin soon. - page 6. (Read 11263 times)

sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 260
July 03, 2014, 12:27:05 AM
I HATE PAYPAL! - PAYPALSUCKS.COM[/b]

Paypal ripped me off for over $3,000 and stop a honest money flow that I built up from $10 a day to $1,000 a day within a week. They locked my account and asked for me to explain. I sent them the biggest email I ever sent and explained from the day I got my first computer up to how I was making that money.

They sent me an automated reply just saying my account is closed for good and they held $1,900 of mine for over 6 months (then they did pay me)

But In all the payments I got that week I never had a chargeback, refund request or any problems from the buyers and when my account got locked, I had hundreds of emails of people saying "I am trying to buy but your paypal is locked...are you a scammer?"

Oh that made me so damn mad (at paypal) that I sent them a very bad email and they sent the cops to my house...to make sure I was not on my way to HQ like I said I was. That was years ago and I have moved on from that but that was a million dollar Idea that only crashed because paypal did not want to work with me...while at the same time they let facebook sell poker chips (in the hold poker game) for paypal or any game credits for paypal and thats against the paypal rules too!


FUCK PAYPAL!
The sad thing is this isn't even an isolated incident. This kind of crap happens constantly.
Paypal does not like people using it to sell digital products. AFAIK it is against their TOS to sell digital products via paypal.
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
July 02, 2014, 12:02:11 PM
I would imagine that the purchase on ebay would be made in terms of USD.  At the moment of purchase, the BTC equivalent would be locked in and immediate payment would be required.
Makes sense
sr. member
Activity: 318
Merit: 250
June 30, 2014, 10:59:55 PM
I HATE PAYPAL! - PAYPALSUCKS.COM[/b]

Paypal ripped me off for over $3,000 and stop a honest money flow that I built up from $10 a day to $1,000 a day within a week. They locked my account and asked for me to explain. I sent them the biggest email I ever sent and explained from the day I got my first computer up to how I was making that money.

They sent me an automated reply just saying my account is closed for good and they held $1,900 of mine for over 6 months (then they did pay me)

But In all the payments I got that week I never had a chargeback, refund request or any problems from the buyers and when my account got locked, I had hundreds of emails of people saying "I am trying to buy but your paypal is locked...are you a scammer?"

Oh that made me so damn mad (at paypal) that I sent them a very bad email and they sent the cops to my house...to make sure I was not on my way to HQ like I said I was. That was years ago and I have moved on from that but that was a million dollar Idea that only crashed because paypal did not want to work with me...while at the same time they let facebook sell poker chips (in the hold poker game) for paypal or any game credits for paypal and thats against the paypal rules too!


FUCK PAYPAL!
The sad thing is this isn't even an isolated incident. This kind of crap happens constantly.

Wow , you are selling BTC for paypal and they lock you ?
newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 0
June 30, 2014, 10:44:48 PM
I HATE PAYPAL! - PAYPALSUCKS.COM[/b]

Paypal ripped me off for over $3,000 and stop a honest money flow that I built up from $10 a day to $1,000 a day within a week. They locked my account and asked for me to explain. I sent them the biggest email I ever sent and explained from the day I got my first computer up to how I was making that money.

They sent me an automated reply just saying my account is closed for good and they held $1,900 of mine for over 6 months (then they did pay me)

But In all the payments I got that week I never had a chargeback, refund request or any problems from the buyers and when my account got locked, I had hundreds of emails of people saying "I am trying to buy but your paypal is locked...are you a scammer?"

Oh that made me so damn mad (at paypal) that I sent them a very bad email and they sent the cops to my house...to make sure I was not on my way to HQ like I said I was. That was years ago and I have moved on from that but that was a million dollar Idea that only crashed because paypal did not want to work with me...while at the same time they let facebook sell poker chips (in the hold poker game) for paypal or any game credits for paypal and thats against the paypal rules too!


FUCK PAYPAL!
The sad thing is this isn't even an isolated incident. This kind of crap happens constantly.
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 260
June 30, 2014, 10:30:55 PM
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
June 30, 2014, 10:03:40 PM
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 260
June 30, 2014, 09:41:12 PM
I had talked about this before and every seller should be able to pay an additional fee of 1% to prevent all unauthorized transactions. This will solve 99% of all chargebacks. PayPal then calls up the buyer and verifies the buyer made the transaction. Seller has absolutely no responsibility for unauthorized transactions. Seller still has to deal with "not sending disputes" and "description not matches."

But the majority of scams are the unauthorized.
I would say that unauthorized scams are that way because it is simply the easiest. It requires the least amount of proof and the least amount of work. If this kind of feature were to be implemented then we would likely see other types of dispute scams.

I would also argue that paypal would likely charge more then 1% for this kind of feature. They would need to keep an audit-able log of each time they talk to someone. I would say that it would take, at minimum 5 mines for the agent to verify that they are in fact speaking to the customer and verify that the customer authorizes the transaction. I think that most paypal transactions are relatively small (<$100) so I don't think that paypal would want to be making this little on something that cannot be done with automation.

Another issue is that I believe that the FCRA (fair credit reporting act) allows people to dispute credit transactions after the fact. If a customer was to successfully dispute a transaction that could not be reversed to the seller then paypal would have to take the loss.  

You're right. It would definitely be more than 1%. I'd think of it more like Unauthorized Protection - But like you said other disputes require more work and don't have as high chance of winning. I'd say the system would be better overall.

Whole process can be automated pretty easily.
1. Email verification can be automated. Lots of scammers don't have access to PayPal email.
2. Phone verification. Text to phone. Done.
3. Security questions. The ones you need to pass when signing up for Coinbase. If they fail, seller can make decision whether to proceed.

Coinbase already does all these and I never spoke to Coinbase once on the phone.


TADA! All automated and much safer. After "authorization" is established it's actually pretty easy if they have eBay username. You can just go by feedback.

Regarding the whole unauthorized transaction situation, I think it's ridiculous the seller should ever be liable for unauthorized transactions because PayPal has all the information to do this verification not the seller. (Including IP addresses.)
1 and 2 - This would not stop people from saying that their account was hacked and an attacker was able to access the email and 2FA device.

1 - If someone were to hack into someone's paypal email then they could perform a password reset on the paypal account (AFAIK), making this option moot.

2 - This would work, but how would paypal verify your identity when you change phone numbers, or if your phone were to be shutoff because of non-payment? You could potentially be shut out from your money because of this. Another issue is that this would need to be opted in by the buyer, so if the buyer does not opt in then the seller would not benefit from the feature. AFAIK paypal does not offer a way to only do business with accounts with certain security features (they would likely not do this either due to, among other things, security concerns).

2 and 3 - Paypal would have the issue of fake paypal sites that could pretend to be paypal, get your login credentials, then ask for your 2fa and/or security questions then forward you to the actual paypal site. This is what the fake blockchain.info sites do when they try to trick users into putting their identifier and password into the fake site, they actually open their wallet but the coins are transferred out shortly thereafter.

3 - You have the same issue of the buyer needing to opt in but is protecting the seller as above. Having these questions would also not resolve the issue of the fact that paypal would likely not force users to answer these security questions prior to every transaction, it would likely be only once to verify one's identity.

1, 2, and 3 - The current system generally works for paypal as the majority of paypal transactions go through without any issue. It is only with bitcoin related transactions that paypal is not good for (not "only" but it is one of the larger struggles). With a shipped good, it is easy to document that the item was actually shipped to the customer's house, and if so then even if the transaction was unauthorized, paypal could have the customer ship the goods back to the merchant to be reimbursed. It is much more difficult to prove that the customer received any kind of digital goods, and the fact that bitcoin cannot be reversed makes it even more complicated (in theory a digital license could be revoked in the event of a chargeback). 
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
June 30, 2014, 02:35:47 PM
Overall, it is a positive, due to the increased visibility and acceptance.

The whole "PayPal escrow" concept mixed in with usage of Bitcoin payment should be interesting.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
nahtnam.com
June 30, 2014, 02:23:41 PM
I HATE PAYPAL! - PAYPALSUCKS.COM[/b]

Paypal ripped me off for over $3,000 and stop a honest money flow that I built up from $10 a day to $1,000 a day within a week. They locked my account and asked for me to explain. I sent them the biggest email I ever sent and explained from the day I got my first computer up to how I was making that money.

They sent me an automated reply just saying my account is closed for good and they held $1,900 of mine for over 6 months (then they did pay me)

But In all the payments I got that week I never had a chargeback, refund request or any problems from the buyers and when my account got locked, I had hundreds of emails of people saying "I am trying to buy but your paypal is locked...are you a scammer?"

Oh that made me so damn mad (at paypal) that I sent them a very bad email and they sent the cops to my house...to make sure I was not on my way to HQ like I said I was. That was years ago and I have moved on from that but that was a million dollar Idea that only crashed because paypal did not want to work with me...while at the same time they let facebook sell poker chips (in the hold poker game) for paypal or any game credits for paypal and thats against the paypal rules too!


FUCK PAYPAL!

I feel you.

Althought they didnt take as much as you away, they did take $180. I think I know how to get it back (A phone call to support should be good enough).
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Need To Contact Me? Go To My Site!
June 30, 2014, 02:10:27 PM
I HATE PAYPAL! - PAYPALSUCKS.COM[/b]

Paypal ripped me off for over $3,000 and stop a honest money flow that I built up from $10 a day to $1,000 a day within a week. They locked my account and asked for me to explain. I sent them the biggest email I ever sent and explained from the day I got my first computer up to how I was making that money.

They sent me an automated reply just saying my account is closed for good and they held $1,900 of mine for over 6 months (then they did pay me)

But In all the payments I got that week I never had a chargeback, refund request or any problems from the buyers and when my account got locked, I had hundreds of emails of people saying "I am trying to buy but your paypal is locked...are you a scammer?"

Oh that made me so damn mad (at paypal) that I sent them a very bad email and they sent the cops to my house...to make sure I was not on my way to HQ like I said I was. That was years ago and I have moved on from that but that was a million dollar Idea that only crashed because paypal did not want to work with me...while at the same time they let facebook sell poker chips (in the hold poker game) for paypal or any game credits for paypal and thats against the paypal rules too!


FUCK PAYPAL!
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
June 30, 2014, 01:41:56 PM
#99
I try to avoid Paypal like the black plague but regardless, it Should give the Btc price a boost.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
June 30, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
#98
BTC is a paypal killer.
Don't see how paypal could "integrate" bitcoin into their payment system without adulterating bitcoin.


What we are witnessing are desperate attempts at survival for dying payment legacies - credit cards will be next.

Soon to be: chargebacks with bitcoin credit cards ---___---

Isn't BTC credit card a contradiction? It's a BTC Debit card.

I had talked about this before and every seller should be able to pay an additional fee of 1% to prevent all unauthorized transactions. This will solve 99% of all chargebacks. PayPal then calls up the buyer and verifies the buyer made the transaction. Seller has absolutely no responsibility for unauthorized transactions. Seller still has to deal with "not sending disputes" and "description not matches."

But the majority of scams are the unauthorized.
I would say that unauthorized scams are that way because it is simply the easiest. It requires the least amount of proof and the least amount of work. If this kind of feature were to be implemented then we would likely see other types of dispute scams.

I would also argue that paypal would likely charge more then 1% for this kind of feature. They would need to keep an audit-able log of each time they talk to someone. I would say that it would take, at minimum 5 mines for the agent to verify that they are in fact speaking to the customer and verify that the customer authorizes the transaction. I think that most paypal transactions are relatively small (<$100) so I don't think that paypal would want to be making this little on something that cannot be done with automation.

Another issue is that I believe that the FCRA (fair credit reporting act) allows people to dispute credit transactions after the fact. If a customer was to successfully dispute a transaction that could not be reversed to the seller then paypal would have to take the loss.  

You're right. It would definitely be more than 1%. I'd think of it more like Unauthorized Protection - But like you said other disputes require more work and don't have as high chance of winning. I'd say the system would be better overall.

Whole process can be automated pretty easily.
1. Email verification can be automated. Lots of scammers don't have access to PayPal email.
2. Phone verification. Text to phone. Done.
3. Security questions. The ones you need to pass when signing up for Coinbase. If they fail, seller can make decision whether to proceed.

Coinbase already does all these and I never spoke to Coinbase once on the phone.


TADA! All automated and much safer. After "authorization" is established it's actually pretty easy if they have eBay username. You can just go by feedback.

Regarding the whole unauthorized transaction situation, I think it's ridiculous the seller should ever be liable for unauthorized transactions because PayPal has all the information to do this verification not the seller. (Including IP addresses.)
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 260
June 29, 2014, 10:07:14 PM
#97
I had talked about this before and every seller should be able to pay an additional fee of 1% to prevent all unauthorized transactions. This will solve 99% of all chargebacks. PayPal then calls up the buyer and verifies the buyer made the transaction. Seller has absolutely no responsibility for unauthorized transactions. Seller still has to deal with "not sending disputes" and "description not matches."

But the majority of scams are the unauthorized.
I would say that unauthorized scams are that way because it is simply the easiest. It requires the least amount of proof and the least amount of work. If this kind of feature were to be implemented then we would likely see other types of dispute scams.

I would also argue that paypal would likely charge more then 1% for this kind of feature. They would need to keep an audit-able log of each time they talk to someone. I would say that it would take, at minimum 5 mines for the agent to verify that they are in fact speaking to the customer and verify that the customer authorizes the transaction. I think that most paypal transactions are relatively small (<$100) so I don't think that paypal would want to be making this little on something that cannot be done with automation.

Another issue is that I believe that the FCRA (fair credit reporting act) allows people to dispute credit transactions after the fact. If a customer was to successfully dispute a transaction that could not be reversed to the seller then paypal would have to take the loss. 
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
nahtnam.com
June 29, 2014, 09:05:32 PM
#96
Are there any Bitcoin centered auction websites around? I tried Googling that ish, but to no avail.

http://cryptothrift.com
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
June 29, 2014, 12:14:07 PM
#95
Are there any Bitcoin centered auction websites around? I tried Googling that ish, but to no avail.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
June 29, 2014, 11:16:55 AM
#94
I would imagine that the purchase on ebay would be made in terms of USD.  At the moment of purchase, the BTC equivalent would be locked in and immediate payment would be required.
ebay's policy currently has some leeway in allowing buyers some time in paying for their winning bid as they would not necessarily be at their computer when the auction is over. If ebay were to allow bitcoin payments for auctions then I agree that the auction would likely be priced in dollars, but the btc/usd price would likely be effective when payment is received. It would also be likely that payment would be made to an ebay escrow address and the buyer will need to confirm receipt of the goods prior to the coins being released to the seller
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
June 29, 2014, 10:41:20 AM
#93
This can't be bad in my opinion. The more eyes on bitcoin, the better. Especially when large names recognize and accept it.
hero member
Activity: 601
Merit: 500
Vote 4fryn :)
June 29, 2014, 10:37:34 AM
#92
BTC is a paypal killer.
Don't see how paypal could "integrate" bitcoin into their payment system without adulterating bitcoin.


What we are witnessing are desperate attempts at survival for dying payment legacies - credit cards will be next.

Soon to be: chargebacks with bitcoin credit cards ---___---
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
June 29, 2014, 10:26:14 AM
#91
I would imagine that the purchase on ebay would be made in terms of USD.  At the moment of purchase, the BTC equivalent would be locked in and immediate payment would be required.
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
June 29, 2014, 04:43:59 AM
#90
How will it work with the significant ups and downs of the value of BTC?
If i ordered something on ebay and the price was 1 bitcoin and the value was, lets say 600$, but i decided to pay only a day after or i jast forgot to, and now the value has droped to 580$, will the seller absorb the difference?
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