People and opinions do change (me 3 years ago)

Rudd-O

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Quote from: Rassah on December 14, 2012, 12:41:05 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on December 14, 2012, 05:00:26 AM

Once you see the irrationality, the violence and the hostility in statists, it is impossible to unsee it. This is exactly why one does not return from an cap.

I imagine abolitionists also could not stop seeing the Negro as a human being, once they did.

Ditto for anyone who was a Christian/Muslim who turns atheist. You can't can't *force* yourself to believe in Santa Claus

Yup.

Rassah

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Quote from: Rudd-O on December 14, 2012, 05:00:26 AM

Once you see the irrationality, the violence and the hostility in statists, it is impossible to unsee it. This is exactly why one does not return from an cap.

I imagine abolitionists also could not stop seeing the Negro as a human being, once they did.

Ditto for anyone who was a Christian/Muslim who turns atheist. You just can't *force* yourself to believe in Santa Claus

Rudd-O

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Once you see the irrationality, the violence and the hostility in statists, it is impossible to unsee it. This is exactly why one does not return from an cap.

I imagine abolitionists also could not stop seeing the Negro as a human being, once they did.

myrkul

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Quote from: firefop on December 13, 2012, 11:54:02 PM

Quote from: myrkul on December 13, 2012, 12:28:17 PM

I believe there's one person I've met (on here, of course) who claims to have turned away from libertarianism before reaching free market anarchist (recoiled from personal responsibility, I think), but once you go AnCap, you don't go back. Wink

I'm not opposed to the idea of it... but nobody's been able to sell it to me yet. But I'm not really that far off of it.

You do realize that this will sound like a challenge to me, right? Wink

Well, Challenge accepted. What are your main complaints?

Quote from: Kluge on December 14, 2012, 04:02:12 AM

Maybe the person gives enough of a damn to vote...

This. The last time I voted was for Ron Paul, and I had to register Republican in order to do so.

Kluge

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Quote from: Lethn on December 14, 2012, 03:34:02 AM

Quote

Ron Paul Republican

Republican? You do realise he got booed at one of the Republican GOP right? That was when he said to not go to war with Iran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBKKh0C2eo

That doesn't mean he doesn't run as a Republican, though, and to be nominated (for most states), supporters need to register as Republican. Thus, registered Republican, Ron Paul supporter -- Ron Paul Republican. It generally was (is?) held by Ron Paul supporters that the Republican party is the most likely vessel to allow a Paul-like candidate to ascend to presidency (among other potential political victories). There are "Ron Paul Democrats," too, though. The failed candidacy of Bob Conley comes to mind. I'm not sure what "Ron Paul Republican" would imply over "Ron Paul supporter," though... Maybe the person gives enough of a damn to vote, or is more "Rand Paul" in thinking, or is just affirming they believe using the Republican party is most likely to result in tangible change...? Maybe they're just worried they might be associated with the Libertarian party. Cheesy

Lethn

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Quote

Ron Paul Republican

Republican? You do realise he got booed at one of the Republican GOP right? That was when he said to not go to war with Iran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBKKh0C2eo

firefop

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Quote from: myrkul on December 13, 2012, 12:28:17 PM

I believe there's one person I've met (on here, of course) who claims to have turned away from libertarianism before reaching free market anarchist (recoiled from personal responsibility, I think), but one you go AnCap, you don't go back. Wink

I'm not opposed to the idea of it... but nobody's been able to sell it to me yet. But I'm not really that far off of it.

myrkul

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Quote from: Anon136 on December 13, 2012, 06:30:51 AM

Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 09:16:15 PM

Quote from: Topazan on December 12, 2012, 08:41:11 PM

Quote

A ray - slim though it might be - of hope for some of this forum's participants, then...

Makes me curious what you used to believe.

A brief summary:
I've wandered all over the political spectrum, from "rebellious" anarchism (the teenaged, unfocused, fuck the system type) to card-carrying democrat (voted for Clinton both times), to Ron Paul Republican, to minarchist libertarian, and finally, to AnCap.

Have you ever heard of someone who used to consider themselves a free market anarchist but has since moved on? I find it interesting and perhaps telling that it is easy to find someone who used to consider themselves a communist or used to consider themselves a republican but i have never yet met someone who used to be a market anarchist.

I believe there's one person I've met (on here, of course) who claims to have turned away from libertarianism before reaching free market anarchist (recoiled from personal responsibility, I think), but one you go AnCap, you don't go back. Wink

Anon136

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Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 09:16:15 PM

Quote from: Topazan on December 12, 2012, 08:41:11 PM

Quote

A ray - slim though it might be - of hope for some of this forum's participants, then...

Makes me curious what you used to believe.

A brief summary:
I've wandered all over the political spectrum, from "rebellious" anarchism (the teenaged, unfocused, fuck the system type) to card-carrying democrat (voted for Clinton both times), to Ron Paul Republican, to minarchist libertarian, and finally, to AnCap.

Have you ever heard of someone who used to consider themselves a free market anarchist but has since moved on? I find it interesting and perhaps telling that it is easy to find someone who used to consider themselves a communist or used to consider themselves a republican but i have never yet met someone who used to be a market anarchist.

myrkul

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Quote from: Rassah on December 12, 2012, 09:36:02 PM

Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 09:16:15 PM

Quote from: Topazan on December 12, 2012, 08:41:11 PM

Quote

A ray - slim though it might be - of hope for some of this forum's participants, then...

Makes me curious what you used to believe.

A brief summary:
I've wandered all over the political spectrum, from "rebellious" anarchism (the teenaged, unfocused, fuck the system type) to card-carrying democrat (voted for Clinton both times), to Ron Paul Republican, to minarchist libertarian, and finally, to AnCap.

I was under the impression you were not from US

Born and raised. I throw in the occasional over-seas phrase or word to keep people on their toes.

Rassah

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Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 09:16:15 PM

Quote from: Topazan on December 12, 2012, 08:41:11 PM

Quote

A ray - slim though it might be - of hope for some of this forum's participants, then...

Makes me curious what you used to believe.

A brief summary:
I've wandered all over the political spectrum, from "rebellious" anarchism (the teenaged, unfocused, fuck the system type) to card-carrying democrat (voted for Clinton both times), to Ron Paul Republican, to minarchist libertarian, and finally, to AnCap.

I was under the impression you were not from US

myrkul

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Quote from: Topazan on December 12, 2012, 08:41:11 PM

Quote

A ray - slim though it might be - of hope for some of this forum's participants, then...

Makes me curious what you used to believe.

A brief summary:
I've wandered all over the political spectrum, from "rebellious" anarchism (the teenaged, unfocused, fuck the system type) to card-carrying democrat (voted for Clinton both times), to Ron Paul Republican, to minarchist libertarian, and finally, to AnCap.

Topazan

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Quote

A ray - slim though it might be - of hope for some of this forum's participants, then...

Makes me curious what you used to believe.

From what I understand, money is neutral in the long term. I personally suspect that short term effects would be limited if we allowed currency competition. Let people choose what kind of currency they use.

myrkul

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Quote from: Rassah on December 12, 2012, 06:52:13 PM

Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 06:37:22 PM

Quote from: Rassah on December 12, 2012, 06:32:47 PM

Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 05:59:10 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 12, 2012, 05:37:37 PM

i think you made some good points. Gold really isnt a great money from a technical standpoint. it would likely be deflationary and this would likely lead to hording which would hamper economic growth.

Gold has a historical record of increasing supply roughly equal to population growth. There have been some blips, but roughly speaking, gold has held it's value pretty steady since well before that long-haired hippy started preaching against the moneylenders on the temple steps.

Is THAT why long-term investment in gold yields something like 3% return?

Is that inflation adjusted? Wink

Apparently.. yes.
"Since 1900 to 2011 bullion made real returns of only 1.3% a year..."
Real returns - returns adjusted for changes in prices due to inflation or other external effects

yup... steady. Maybe a little up, maybe a little down, that's what you want in a currency. Just like bitcoin. It will inflate to a set number, hopefully at a rate close to adoption, and then slowly trickle away as people lose wallets. Eventually, we may need a Bitcoin 2.0, but I'll be long dead (or uploaded) by then.

Rassah

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Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 06:37:22 PM

Quote from: Rassah on December 12, 2012, 06:32:47 PM

Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 05:59:10 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 12, 2012, 05:37:37 PM

i think you made some good points. Gold really isnt a great money from a technical standpoint. it would likely be deflationary and this would likely lead to hording which would hamper economic growth.

Gold has a historical record of increasing supply roughly equal to population growth. There have been some blips, but roughly speaking, gold has held it's value pretty steady since well before that long-haired hippy started preaching against the moneylenders on the temple steps.

Is THAT why long-term investment in gold yields something like 3% return?

Is that inflation adjusted? Wink

Apparently.. yes.
"Since 1900 to 2011 bullion made real returns of only 1.3% a year..."
Real returns - returns adjusted for changes in prices due to inflation or other external effects

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

In some ways, only a fool never change their opinion. I may be one: since ~2000, I take the "political compass" test once every 3-4 years. My coordinates have not moved significantly: I'm right there, in the libertarian-left corner, with Nader, Walt Brown, Mandela, the Dalai Lama, Gandhi (even though I'd never endorse most of them).

myrkul

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Quote from: Rassah on December 12, 2012, 06:32:47 PM

Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 05:59:10 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 12, 2012, 05:37:37 PM

i think you made some good points. Gold really isnt a great money from a technical standpoint. it would likely be deflationary and this would likely lead to hording which would hamper economic growth.

Gold has a historical record of increasing supply roughly equal to population growth. There have been some blips, but roughly speaking, gold has held it's value pretty steady since well before that long-haired hippy started preaching against the moneylenders on the temple steps.

Is THAT why long-term investment in gold yields something like 3% return?

Is that inflation adjusted? Wink

Often ROI is measured in the currency units that you bought it in, and if you inflate the purchasing power of the dollar away, the same amount of gold is going to buy a lot more dollars.

Rassah

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Quote from: myrkul on December 12, 2012, 05:59:10 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 12, 2012, 05:37:37 PM

i think you made some good points. Gold really isnt a great money from a technical standpoint. it would likely be deflationary and this would likely lead to hording which would hamper economic growth.

Gold has a historical record of increasing supply roughly equal to population growth. There have been some blips, but roughly speaking, gold has held it's value pretty steady since well before that long-haired hippy started preaching against the moneylenders on the temple steps.

Is THAT why long-term investment in gold yields something like 3% return?

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 12, 2012, 05:37:37 PM

i think you made some good points. Gold really isnt a great money from a technical standpoint. it would likely be deflationary and this would likely lead to hording which would hamper economic growth.

Gold has a historical record of increasing supply roughly equal to population growth. There have been some blips, but roughly speaking, gold has held it's value pretty steady since well before that long-haired hippy started preaching against the moneylenders on the temple steps.

Anon136

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i think you made some good points. Gold really isnt a great money from a technical standpoint. it would likely be deflationary and this would likely lead to hording which would hamper economic growth. Similarly inflationary money also leads different but no less real forms of malinvestment. Ideally we would have a money that was responsibly managed in order to maintain a stable purchasing power. Probably a currency that was issued privately and redeemable for a basket of commodities would be most ideal.

Of course what is great about gold as money is the protection it provides against the damage that would be caused by government meddling (damage that is typically orders of magnitude greater than a little naturally occurring deflation)

Topic: People and opinions do change (me 3 years ago) (Read 2208 times)