People are extremely biased towards bitcoin. - page 7.

Lancusters

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Quote from: iram1011 on December 21, 2017, 01:11:10 PM

Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

I see LN as the only viable option to fix tx fee and time. Scalability issue is indeed at heights and these shit forks are only increasing the problem.

But I want to talk about the utility here. If you need a coin with utility as currency for everyday transaction, then even if fees goes down significantly, no one is going to use BTC for that because of the inbuilt deflation. As supply is limited, adoption is increasing and hence, price will rise. BTC has become a ""store of value"" than a currency.

For currency purpose we need a currency with little or no deflation like XRP with large supply. Bitcoin can never become that with 21 million supply. A little inflation is required for building a currency that people will actually use.

Why do we need inflation? You know what national banks are in collusion with the government use this mechanism? It is attempt for your account to close holes in the economy. It seems to me that the government should manage the economy so that we did not pay for their mistakes. That is why bitcoin has become so popular.

JL421

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

Currently more than volatility, transactions are only an irritated hurdle. But overall with the benefits of bitcoin, transactions should not be that much of a bother when the trans are made with huge amounts as high fees can be avoided. Cryptocurrency is not controlled completely by some entity so there is bound to be some shortcomings.

EdenHazard

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Quote from: krishnapramod on December 21, 2017, 11:16:22 AM

The increasing fees and delayed confirmation time is definitely a legit concern. The Bitcoin Cash pump and Coinbase insider trading is at most an indirect attack, pump is part of the crypto market, expected, but it was an unethical behavior from a major exchange, but calling everything an attack is just irrational. Right now the Bitcoin network does have a major problem and it might get worse until LN is implemented. For the time being I think the only solution is to increase Segwit adoption by using Segwit supported services or requesting your wallet/exchange providers to upgrade to Segwit ASAP.

frustrating really , but i see this kind matter just as a game of market maker. people won't lost interest in bitcoin , just the matter of time that everything could get back to normal and even better than ever , LN should fix this.

bitcoin cash , bitcoin gold take this matter as their advantage indeed but won't affected for long term.

Samarkand

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Quote from: krishnapramod on December 21, 2017, 11:16:22 AM

...For the time being I think the only solution is to increase Segwit adoption by using Segwit supported services or requesting your wallet/exchange providers to upgrade to Segwit ASAP.

Coinbase and Bitpay are probably the two most relevant Bitcoin businesses in
terms of transactions per day. Both have refused to adopt Segwit in spite of
enormous user demand. They are clearly following their own agenda, because they have
been complaining about rising fees for years and when finally an improvement is
possible due to Segwit they refuse to integrate it.

Other exchanges and service providers have switched to Segwit addresses completely. Instead of doing this
overdue improvement they decide to prepone the BCH trading launch.

These businesses are a huge cancer on the Bitcoin industry.

iram1011

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

I see LN as the only viable option to fix tx fee and time. Scalability issue is indeed at heights and these shit forks are only increasing the problem.

But I want to talk about the utility here. If you need a coin with utility as currency for everyday transaction, then even if fees goes down significantly, no one is going to use BTC for that because of the inbuilt deflation. As supply is limited, adoption is increasing and hence, price will rise. BTC has become a ""store of value"" than a currency.

For currency purpose we need a currency with little or no deflation like XRP with large supply. Bitcoin can never become that with 21 million supply. A little inflation is required for building a currency that people will actually use.

Mometaskers

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No doubt bitcoin really have problems. Almost everyone complains about the congestion and the accompanying increase of the "acceptable" transaction fee. People should be able to discern legit criticisms. Sure, if you like you may think of the recent dip as an attack from BCH supporters but if the talk is about scaling then we have to accept that it is currently really having difficulties.

Am I optimistic about the price? Still yes. About bitcoin becoming an easy mode of exchange? Not so much anymore.

Bardman

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Quote from: Hamphser on December 21, 2017, 12:29:36 PM

Quote from: webtricks on December 21, 2017, 11:29:52 AM

Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

While arguing the fact that Bitcoin fees is rising, have people looked the other aspect? The second best cryptocurrency (can by argued) is Ethereum and transaction fees of ETH lies between $1-8.5 depending upon GAS limit just at this level of adoption. Think if it reaches at the level of BTC adoption, what would be the fees! Same is the case with other coins, their fees depend upon their spread.
The fees of Bitcoin is high because it is most spread cryptocurrency and huge number of transactions are made daily. I doubt if any other coin used at such spread can deliver transaction at relatively lower fees. More or less every coin is Scalability prone.

Same assumptions on here which we do argue about the fees without even thinking that if alts would go on the current position of bitcoin regarding on adoption level would completely experience such problems too but yet its not still sure if they would but chances would really be big. Adoption is one of the reasons why these fees rose up high together with the greediness of those miners which isn't really surprising at all. People would always be biased on the things on where they do benefited the most.

Sure but that's still a problem, regardless if alts would experience the same or not. You can't just say, yeah fees are high but hey if an alt had the same price the fees would be high as well. That's what I'm arguing about, the price is too high and the technology is not there to sustain it.

godzillarekt007

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You are right that most people on here defend bitcoin without taking into consideration the other side which is short-sighted. But we are on a bitcoin forum I mean did you really expect any different? Roll Eyes

I know I didn't but again it would be nice to have an earnest conversation about bitcoin especially those problems that plague it. I do think though because of how big bitcoin is it won't go under because of transactions fees or block size. Those are issues that can definitely be figured out, and one all will want to see a consensus on therefore don't worry too much.

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Quote from: webtricks on December 21, 2017, 11:29:52 AM

Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

While arguing the fact that Bitcoin fees is rising, have people looked the other aspect? The second best cryptocurrency (can by argued) is Ethereum and transaction fees of ETH lies between $1-8.5 depending upon GAS limit just at this level of adoption. Think if it reaches at the level of BTC adoption, what would be the fees! Same is the case with other coins, their fees depend upon their spread.
The fees of Bitcoin is high because it is most spread cryptocurrency and huge number of transactions are made daily. I doubt if any other coin used at such spread can deliver transaction at relatively lower fees. More or less every coin is Scalability prone.

Same assumptions on here which we do argue about the fees without even thinking that if alts would go on the current position of bitcoin regarding on adoption level would completely experience such problems too but yet its not still sure if they would but chances would really be big. Adoption is one of the reasons why these fees rose up high together with the greediness of those miners which isn't really surprising at all. People would always be biased on the things on where they do benefited the most.

sorrysteve1

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

You're right, in fact there's a bias either way, the problem is that bitcoin can be influenced by peoples opinions and so people will always rush to either defend or criticise bitcoin without much consideration as to what the actual concerns are. If we all put our brains together and discussed things constructively we could much better work towards building something that will be suitable for the future.

LightFork

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Quote from: sofi@ on December 21, 2017, 11:33:49 AM

I agree to this people really rely on bitcoin because of its very appreciative value without even looking ag the scenario that keeps distracting our transactions. Bitcoin is outdated and that's a fact but since it's value keep growing we ignore that fact but sooner when more and more transactions get stuck I think people will realize that there is really a need to enhance and develop bitcoin because time will come a bigger transactions might get stuck that will surely cause more problems

It's not a fact that the next leader will be the name "improved bitcoin". There are many altcoins and everyone has a lot of pluses.

sofi@

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I agree to this people really rely on bitcoin because of its very appreciative value without even looking ag the scenario that keeps distracting our transactions. Bitcoin is outdated and that's a fact but since it's value keep growing we ignore that fact but sooner when more and more transactions get stuck I think people will realize that there is really a need to enhance and develop bitcoin because time will come a bigger transactions might get stuck that will surely cause more problems

webtricks

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

While arguing the fact that Bitcoin fees is rising, have people looked the other aspect? The second best cryptocurrency (can by argued) is Ethereum and transaction fees of ETH lies between $1-8.5 depending upon GAS limit just at this level of adoption. Think if it reaches at the level of BTC adoption, what would be the fees! Same is the case with other coins, their fees depend upon their spread.
The fees of Bitcoin is high because it is most spread cryptocurrency and huge number of transactions are made daily. I doubt if any other coin used at such spread can deliver transaction at relatively lower fees. More or less every coin is Scalability prone.

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

I do understand your point and on your opinion which i do agree on some points where people do still protecting bitcoin instead on the flaws that we are seeing as of now but you cant really blame them since bitcoin is really the first cryptocurrency which most people did able to engage on and did see the potential when it comes to demand and price increase but now it turns out that flaws are already being felt.

krishnapramod

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The increasing fees and delayed confirmation time is definitely a legit concern. The Bitcoin Cash pump and Coinbase insider trading is at most an indirect attack, pump is part of the unregulated free crypto market, expected, but it was an unethical behavior from a major exchange, but calling everything an attack is just irrational. Right now the Bitcoin network does have a major problem and it might get worse until LN is implemented. For the time being I think the only solution is to increase Segwit adoption by using Segwit supported services or requesting your wallet/exchange providers to upgrade to Segwit ASAP.

TheCoinGrabber

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:37:09 AM

Quote from: Wipro on December 21, 2017, 10:31:40 AM

Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

Transaction fees bothers most of the people especially small fund earning cannot able to exchange their bitcoins in the needy time. But you will find bitcoin transaction fees recovered with the effect of upcoming fork.
Most of the trollers will be always goes on pulling down and give information like it is been used on buying and etc.

That's another issue to be honest, all these forks are getting out of hand. Also people still think that bitcoin is a currency but who uses bitcoin as a currency right now? Even the developers that maintain bitcoin's code right now think bitcoin should be treated as a store of value not as a payment option.

I'm no tech nerd so I don't know how to solve the tx backlogs but it's really the forks that bother me. Every time I see it on the news I'd go "God, is this the end?". Does slowly chip away at my confidence in BTC.

pitiflin

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

Why not think of this, the reason for the rise in the fee is because of the price rise, miners want profit, bitcoin cash seems better to mine, so the reasons for the fee rise. The fees are high but so are the prices, can people not compensate and deal with the fee issue for now? Bitcoin may have competition but at the end the support for bitcoin is more than the support of any other coin and bitcoin will win easily.

Bardman

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Quote from: Wipro on December 21, 2017, 10:31:40 AM

Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

Transaction fees bothers most of the people especially small fund earning cannot able to exchange their bitcoins in the needy time. But you will find bitcoin transaction fees recovered with the effect of upcoming fork.
Most of the trollers will be always goes on pulling down and give information like it is been used on buying and etc.

That's another issue to be honest, all these forks are getting out of hand. Also people still think that bitcoin is a currency but who uses bitcoin as a currency right now? Even the developers that maintain bitcoin's code right now think bitcoin should be treated as a store of value not as a payment option.

Wipro

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Quote from: Bardman on December 21, 2017, 10:12:47 AM

Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

Transaction fees bothers most of the people especially small fund earning cannot able to exchange their bitcoins in the needy time. But you will find bitcoin transaction fees recovered with the effect of upcoming fork.
Most of the trollers will be always goes on pulling down and give information like it is been used on buying and etc.

Bardman

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Most people here and reddit will defend bitcoin no matter what instead of looking at the problems. Every time someone comments something about the speed or transaction fees they will just yell ''FUD'' or ''Another attack on bitcoin'' but it's not always that. I have been a strong supporter of bitcoin myself but we have to face it, it's not in a good position right now, sure the price is great but what else? Insane fees that are not getting solved any time soon? I know the demand is high but the ones that are buying are just buying to sell eventually not to support bitcoin, not to use it. The demand will eventually fade away and what do we have left? An outdated bitcoin that won't be able to compete with better coins.

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