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Topic: People should get the full story of r/bitcoin, one of the strangest subs (Read 826 times)

administrator
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Merit: 13032
I have corrected this stuff many times, so those who keep posting it must be intentionally trying to deceive.

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Theymos not only controls r/bitcoin, but also bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.com. These are top three communication channels for the bitcoin community, all controlled by just one person.

Wrong. bitcoin.org is ultimately controlled by Cobra, who was given it by Sirius, who was given it by Satoshi. The bitcointalk.org domain name is similarly controlled by Cobra, while I administrate the site.

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It was in fact put in place afterwards as a measure to stop a bloating attack on the network.

It was put in place by Satoshi because the software clearly couldn't handle it. There were no tx spam attacks occurring at the time. In fact, we now know that Satoshi's original software couldn't handle even 1MB blocks. This caused the BIP50 incident, where nodes running the older database code written by Satoshi started randomly failing once miners started creating larger blocks. Satoshi's original software had soft limits which made it never produce blocks over 500kB, and very rarely over 250kB.

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When bitcoin was released, transactions were actually for free

Wrong. The very first versions set aside some portion of blocks for free transactions. If that was full, then they started requiring fees. The fee logic worked much the same as today's code; it's just that free transactions were sometimes possible/allowed because there was essentially no tx volume. The same situation exists today on most altcoins.

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There was significant support from the users and businesses behind a simple solution put forward by the developer Gavin Andreesen.

Gavin had already resigned as Bitcoin Core lead dev at that point, and had not contributed in any significant way to Bitcoin Core for about a year.

XT had very little support.

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Gavin was the lead developer after Satoshi Nakamoto left bitcoin and he left it in his hands.

If you want to use this ridiculous feudalism argument, I can "draw authority from Satoshi" in four separate ways: as bitcointalk.org head admin (originally Satoshi), as owner of bitcoins.org/bitcoin.net (originally owned by Satoshi), as one of the old alert key trustees (originally created by Satoshi), and as the backup domain administrator of bitcoin.org (originally owned by Satoshi). Gavin on the other hand voluntarily resigned as Bitcoin Core lead developer in favor of Wladimir.

(The above is not a good argument; I don't use it except in response to similar arguments.)

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Gavin initially proposed a very simple solution of increasing the limit which was to change the few lines of code to increase the maximum number of transactions that are allowed.

Gavin's original solution, which was to push through 20MB block sizes ASAP, was later shown in research by bigblockers to have been unsafe.

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A certain group of bitcoin developers decided that increasing the limit by this amount was too much and that it was dangerous

More like almost all experts.

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The theory was that a miner of the network with more resources could publish many more transactions than a competing small miner could handle and therefore the network would tend towards few large miners rather than many small miners.

This has never been a concern of mine -- I believe that mining is already hopelessly centralized and beyond saving --, and it's at most a tangential concern of other decentralists.

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The group of developers who supported this theory were all developers who worked for the company Blockstream.

Absolutely false. All developers who worked for Blockstream rejected 20MB blocks, just like all developers who worked for Blockstream would've rejected the idea that the sky is green. But Blockstream employees are only a small percentage of Bitcoin Core devs, and almost all Bitcoin Core devs as well as almost all experts opposed Gavin's ridiculous 20MB proposal and the later still-ridiculous 10MB and 8MB proposals.

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For example, at the time the total size of the blockchain was around 50GB. Even for the cost of a 500GB SSD is only $150 and would last a number of years.

With Gavin's original proposal of 20MB blocks, the block chain would grow by up to ~1TB per year.

But storage is generally a straw-man argument -- due to pruning, storage is mostly solved, and has been for years. Storage is way down on the list of concerns for large block sizes. See my post here for the actual concerns. (Back in 2014-2015, bandwidth was also a very major concern, but since then compact blocks -- roughly the same thing as IBLTs mentioned by Gavin -- have been added to Core, improving this a lot.)

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They promised that they would release code that would offer an on-chain scaling solution hardfork within about 4 months

This agreement was between some miners and a handful of notable devs: Peter Todd, Luke-Jr, BlueMatt, and Adam Back IIRC. Those people were only representing themselves, not anyone else, and this was made extremely clear in the agreement. Even if they had been representing Blockstream or Bitcoin Core as a whole, a little group of people like this can't make decisions on behalf of Bitcoin. If every Core dev met with the main miners and agreed on behalf of Bitcoin as a whole to some "compromise" (ie. something technically bad, but done for political reasons), I would oppose it.

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This has meant that all control of bitcoin development is in the hands of the developers working at Blockstream.
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It has hired most of the main and active bitcoin developers and is now synonymous with the "Core" bitcoin development team.

Funny how the Bitcoin Core lead developer works for MIT, then.

In reality, only a few Bitcoin Core devs are Blockstream employees. See for example this comment by the person who currently has the most commits to Bitcoin Core, and who does not work for Blockstream.

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Every single thing they do is supported by /u/theymos.

Blockstream is a for-profit company. I respect several of their employees, but I don't care about the company itself. I've actually always been critical of SPV-secured sidechains, which is one of Blockstream's flagship ideas, since it strikes me as being too insecure to be useful in most cases.

I recently warned against trusting any organization, as every organization will eventually be corrupted. I owe no allegiance to Core or Blockstream (which is separate from Core); I support good ideas.



Regarding /r/Bitcoin moderation: my position has always been that if you don't like how we do it, then you can leave. We try to make /r/Bitcoin as good as possible in spite of Reddit's many inherent flaws, but it's not going to please everyone. Reddit is a flawed platform, and in order to make a large subreddit useful, aggressive moderation is sometimes necessary. But we've never taken the position of banning all bigblockers or anything like that. When people get banned, it's usually for behaving in a way that would get you banned on a great many other subreddits.

/r/Bitcoin does not allow the dangerous and deceptive practice of trying to get people to run non-consensus software. This includes things like links to binaries of BIP148, since that was non-consensus software, even though I mostly agreed with what BIP148 was trying to do. If you don't agree with this policy, again, you're free to leave /r/Bitcoin.

Bitcointalk.org on the other hand has (and needs) much less moderation than /r/Bitcoin.
member
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🌐 www.btric.org 🌐
I have to say that the level of rancor that has gone on among those that favor S2X is childish and doesn't give me any confidence in the strength of the team behind it.  The fact that replay protection is purposely (from what I understand) being withheld from the impending S2X fork also does not convey to me a level of professionalism that a team devoted to advancing the best interests of a significant store of wealth should posses and keep in the forefront of decision making.

I am inclined to defer significant judgment to the Core team that has maintained the code base and have been a large part of how Bitcoin got to where it is today.

That being said, while I truly believe that Core is making the right choice, I'm reserving ultimate judgement and keeping an open mind, and I think that's the right choice.

Bitcoin began as an experiment.  It has shown it can be very successful -- maybe, even, to the point of changing paradigms that have existed for most of recorded history.  Forks in the road are part of any growth process.  Instead of throwing insults and sowing FUD, why not put that energy toward solving the problems inherent in scaling BTC?

I say... let the best code win.

I don't want Bitcoin to be centralized to a single company or a small group of them.

I don't want Bitcoin to be centralized to a single mining operation or a small group of them.

I support a vibrant ecosystem of people, businesses, and organizations that promote Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.  I support laws and regulations that protect people but do not stifle innovation.  And I support exploring multiple ideas to achieving the outcomes that better Bitcoin and its resilience. 

The OP mentions Visa... Visa handles on average a few thousand transactions per second but it has a network that is capable of peak capacity of somewhere around 50k transactions/sec.  Monthly billing on the first of the month are their regular peak days, along with black Friday and cyber Monday.  Bitcoin is currently light years from that level of capacity.  Potentially the entire backbone of the internet would need upgrading to handle that level of transaction volume, I'm no expert on that.

As far as Theymos goes, I do not know him at all.  I know he owns this website and that he moderates the /r/bitcoin sub on reddit.  He is free to do so any way he wants, for any reason he wants.  Just as I would kick a person out of my home or business for doing certain things, he is free to express his point of view -- including by moderating or banning anyone or anything he wants.  This is his website, and while I doubt he owns reddit, they have delegated certain authorities to him there in the /r/bitcoin sub.  Every post I have ever read from him on here, in my view, reflects a person that is an enthusiast about Bitcoin and that wants to keep visitors to this website informed with reliable information, such as he did during the Bitcoin cash fork.  He undoubtedly incurs significant expense and time in maintaining this site and we are all his guests when we visit it.  If you don't like that, it's pretty easy to set up your own website.
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 250
Presale is live!
Bitcointalk needs a bit more legit moderation and a bit less power abuse.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
Rules are rules. r/Bitcoin and Bitcointalk.org is platforms for talks and discussions about Bitcoin and not a platform to promote some Alt coin. If anyone has a problem with that, then they can move to Roger Ver's forum to discuss those Alt coins. On Bitcointalk.org, you are allowed to discuss Alt coins, but in the designated area for that, not in the main Bitcoin discussion areas.

When moderators remove or move threads that are Alt coin related, the supporters of these Alt coins throw out all their toys and calls it censorship.

Stay within the rules of the forum and your Alt coin discussions will be tolerated, even though this forum were meant to discuss Bitcoin.

segwit is an altcoin.. hense why people call it segwit and not bitcoin..
but because segwit (2014 blockstream elements coin) has been trojan horsed into bitcoin, the bs fanboys think its their right to think its ok to promote segwit in the main bitcoin forum for years before it even got trojan horsed in....(bs devs admitted they backdoored it in)
however other projects that actually use consensus and do not have altcoin creating code get pushed to altcoin category.. all because the bs devs themselves put code into their segwit2.0 to ban anything not segwit roadmapped

kakmakr, its worth you researching more and defending the bscartel less
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
^^^^^^

Shills gonna shill
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 278
Bitcoin :open immutable decentralized global fair
Hahahaha LOL. So uninformed.

Why is the other reddit thread and the other company-controlled bitcoin website (bitcoin.com) such babies and spreading FUD with these posts? Why do they push hard on altcoins (bitcoin cash, ethereum, FUD? this post is a prime example)?

Answer: DCG = DIGITAL CURRENCY GROUP (Barry Silbert, Jeff Garzik, coin base, bitpay, etc) who spread FUD and are trying to infiltrate & eventually shutdown bitcoin.

Forks creating scamchains are a courtesy brought to you by DCG group of companies led by Barry Silbert with his fellow minion Jeff Garzik and friend Roger Ver. Central banks love to fund their operations so they can get inside the community to circumvent Bitcoin's progress and try to destroy bitcoin.

Luckily their attempts have been marked by continuous failed altcoins...
"Bitcoin Classic" failure
"Bitcoin XT" failure
"Bitcoin Unlimited" failure
"Bitcoin Cash" failure
coming soon..."Bitcoin Segwit2x" (BTC1) failure

Recommend reading post: "Hacks Puppets and Forks - How to destroy Bitcoin"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1834310.20

hacks (these people may have been well-meaning previously...but people change...):
Mike Hearn : “the "Bitcoin experiment" has "failed." goes on to Ethereum an app coin.
Hearn - Big Bank Bitcoin Bully - https://medium.com/@tradertimm/hearn-big-bank-bitcoin-bully-c61531c082e#.okh9viyze
Craig Wright - desperately claimed to be Satoshi & then flees fraud trying to file a bunch of IP patents! LOL!
Mark Karpeles
Paul Vernon
Josh Garza
Roger Ver
Jeff Garzik (2017 recent; hard forking BTC1 / segwit2x)
"Jeff Garzik wants you to connect to his Bitcoin transaction analytics (spy) company Skry, by default, in the SegWit2x fork. Jeff is a sneaky snake!":https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6n9grc/jeff_garzik_wants_you_to_connect_to_his_bitcoin/
Barry Silbert (and his DCG portfolio of companies-ie Coinbase, Bitpay, sponsoring ilk of Jeff Garzik characters)


Bitcoin has the highest value because of the totality of what it is - if it lacked the features of what it is, then there would be no value.

If it wasn't secure, there would be no value.
If it wasn't immutable, there would be no value.
If it wasn't globally distributed, there would be no value.
If it wasn't so strong, open-source decentralized and unstoppable, there would be no value.
If it wasn't so scarce, there would be no value.
If it was easy to spam transactions, there would be no value
If it didn't have the history of 8+ years (and still no hacker can exploit bitcoin blockchain), there would be no value
If it was exactly like fiat and only did transactions, there would be no value.

Bitcoin has all these together to make the most value and increasing more than any other financial-asset option coming from the fiat central-banking debt-system.


Though it is still very early adoption (most people everywhere don't know what it is)...
Bitcoin has freed, continuing to free, and tomorrow will still free many people globally from the centrally controlled debt-based fiat system that confiscates your wealth with inflation and tax. Bitcoin is a TRUE savings vehicle. Buying Real Estate, Hospital healthcare, Global traveling, College Education gets cheaper as you hold Bitcoin.

And it has become clear that...
Bitcoin CANNOT be controlled.

Bitcoin cannot be made legal. Governments may still attempt to do so. They can never have such domination on Bitcoin.

Bitcoin cannot be made illegal. Governments may still attempt to do so.


Central banks already control and manipulate Stocks, Real Estate, Gold, Interest Rates. Central banks will never have such domination on Bitcoin.

Bitcoin reached escape velocity 4-years ago in 2013 which means it cannot be stopped - cannot make it illegal or legal - governments/banks do not matter.

On the opposite end of the spectrum the global fiat (US Dollars, Indian Rupees, Chinese Yuan, etc) bubble system broke a couple of decades ago.

Fiat around the world is forced to inflate issuance as its heavily infested, burdened and broken with:
-regulatory burden on fiat banks & system (incredibly costly)
-unemployment & other welfare costs
-inflating fiat to keep stock market rising and to keep house-prices from collapsing
-financing conflicts, bombs, and "aid"
-insurance fraud
-false claims and insurance loss-events
-stabilize regions after natural disasters
-keeping monopolies with internet access centralized and search engine crawlers centralized
-money laundering
-chargebacks
-frivolous legal costs (lawsuits bogging the system down)
-state-sponsored corruption and unofficial corruption (governments and gangs, banks and conartists)
-retirement obligations (debasement in value to keep up with payments from government or other retirement-obligations)
-fake credit (goods being transacted with credit-loss, replaced by inflation of monetary base rather than bringing perpetrators & source to justice)
-using enforcement labor to freeze accounts and assets and take away your money
-costs of auditors and budgetors and accountants to governments and businesses

Bitcoin, systemically, is free from these burdens.

Bitcoin is GLOBALLY held and sought after by people in almost every country - see global trade data by country or see this list:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/which-country-are-you-from-here-list-thirty-popular-bitcoin-countries-for-trade-1853019

BLOCKCHAIN without bitcoin = SCAMCHAINS
BLOCKCHAINS without bitcoin ARE SIMPLY PRIVATE DATABASES that every small business has even a coffee shop = NO VALUE, its like fiat currency, small minimal value!

BITCOIN BLOCKHAIN = SECURE IMMUTABLE VALUABLE OPEN-SOURCE DECENTRALIZED FAIR (scarce bitcoin supply). Globally people poured over $70Billion (USD) equivelent value into bitcoin and this will increase with time.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE STOP BLOWING BUBBLES OF EXTRA FIAT MONEY AROUND THE WORLD? (PLEASE NO MORE USD, EUROS, JAPANESE YENS, INDIAN RUPEES, CHINESE YUAN, MEXICAN PESOS - PLEASE STOP INFLATING AND MAKING BITCOIN SO VALUABLE)...stop this pumping

https://macromon.wordpress.com/2017/04/26/the-chart-that-floats-overvaluation/
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Very interesting. I personally prefer to remain on the hub of bitcoin communication, Bitcointalk, so I haven't ventured over that way yet.

I think you're looking for http://www.reddit.com/r/btc the largest place for uncensored Bitcoin discussion.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1029
Very interesting. I personally prefer to remain on the hub of bitcoin communication, Bitcointalk, so I haven't ventured over that way yet.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Someone posted asking if we can recommend wallets. I recommended blockchain.info and Bitcoin.com . That comment was deleted and tagged,"off topic".

I am still confused why that answer is offtopic



Because it doesnt fit their agenda. Dont forget this forum and /r/bitcoin are controlled by the exact same people.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Someone posted asking if we can recommend wallets. I recommended blockchain.info and Bitcoin.com . That comment was deleted and tagged,"off topic".

I am still confused why that answer is offtopic

hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
More relevant than ever during these strange times of high level deception. Find another way to get your information other than this censored cesspit of a forum ran by people who despise freedom.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1965
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Rules are rules. r/Bitcoin and Bitcointalk.org is platforms for talks and discussions about Bitcoin and not a platform to promote some Alt coin. If anyone has a problem with that, then they can move to Roger Ver's forum to discuss those Alt coins. On Bitcointalk.org, you are allowed to discuss Alt coins, but in the designated area for that, not in the main Bitcoin discussion areas.

When moderators remove or move threads that are Alt coin related, the supporters of these Alt coins throw out all their toys and calls it censorship.

Stay within the rules of the forum and your Alt coin discussions will be tolerated, even though this forum were meant to discuss Bitcoin.
hero member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 638
Well then, by your theory if it is true then your thread will get deleted, so let's see what happens now... Grin

What theory?  25hashcoin has appeared to just copy and paste some one else's thread from Reddit. Fuck, if we wanted to argue the pov on Reddit, let's go to Reddit and do it!
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 250
Presale is live!
Bitcointalk stopped getting overtly censored although it used to be when all "bitcoinxt" stuff got moved to altcoins.

I think the censorship would be too obvious now. instead they just brigade with trolls.

I still get the odd message here and there deleted. At first I always think it is bullcrap, but in reality I can see why they do it in order to promote a good image of Bitcoin... it is a debatable issue, but realistically this forum is definitely NOT overmoderated by any stretch of the imagination.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
Bitcointalk stopped getting overtly censored although it used to be when all "bitcoinxt" stuff got moved to altcoins.

I think the censorship would be too obvious now. instead they just brigade with trolls.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Well then, by your theory if it is true then your thread will get deleted, so let's see what happens now... Grin
Ehhh, moderation policies are in place that are designed to steer conversations in a certain way. Also, certain policies are only sometimes enforced, allowing favorable/unfavorable threads to remain in more prominent locations. Bitcointalk does not really have any policies that prevent users from expressing their opinions, however r/bitcoin allegedly is different.  


This forum also gets a tiny fraction of new user exposure compared to r/bitcoin
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
Well then, by your theory if it is true then your thread will get deleted, so let's see what happens now... Grin
Ehhh, moderation policies are in place that are designed to steer conversations in a certain way. Also, certain policies are only sometimes enforced, allowing favorable/unfavorable threads to remain in more prominent locations. Bitcointalk does not really have any policies that prevent users from expressing their opinions, however r/bitcoin allegedly is different. 
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Well then, by your theory if it is true then your thread will get deleted, so let's see what happens now... Grin
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