Topic: Philippines adoption - page 2. (Read 4622 times)

Quote from: cbeast on July 28, 2014, 12:00:39 AM

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost

With localbitcoins or mycelium, any money service or pawnshop can be a padala. I'm aiming at the low end 5/6 lenders and such. They can set any fees they wish, but they will probably be working with amounts too small for traditional money transmitters, i.e. much less than 5000 php. on a weekly repayment schedule. For the record, I will not be making the loans. I am only assisting in an advisory capacity to help with development of Bitcoin in third world nations. I don't know the legalities of these situations, but it's my understanding that it is a dangerous business. Bitcoin will eventually find a niche that doesn't compete with Western Union, but will coexist peacefully with traditional money transmitters until they are no longer necessary.

https://sendmoney.coins.ph/

the minimum available thru this is P26 but the3 sender would be wiped out due to cost of $ to bitcoin exchange most probably

Here are a couple of small remittance estimates and you can see if they work for ur intended use

P500 sent =...2% approx $ to bitcoin P10 + 3% exchange spread when selling bitcoin to peso P15 + P10 mobile money gcash = P35 cost or 7% cost

or lbc etc cash pick up P30 = P55 or 11%

P200 sent = 2% approx $ to bitcoin P4 ( assuming there is no fee or minimum in buying bitcoin with $ as if there is it will never be worth sending in this or any other method from outside Philippines ) + 3% spread bitcoin to pesos ( there is no minimum for this) = P6 + P15 cash pick up lbc total P25 or 12.5%..

so small amounts can be done at a higher % cost which however is far lower than western union who probably will eat up 90% + of the remittance on low amounts

The local bitcoin spread is already about 7 - 10 % each way...$ to bitcoin and then bitcoin to pesos and then you will still need to go thru a remittance service so that is more expensive.

That's great for me. Now I can just live off my bitcoins and retire. Where in Mindanao can I shop with bitcoins?

qwerty555

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Quote from: qwerty555 on July 27, 2014, 11:44:28 PM

Quote from: qwerty555 on July 27, 2014, 11:44:28 PM

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost

With localbitcoins or mycelium, any money service or pawnshop can be a padala. I'm aiming at the low end 5/6 lenders and such. They can set any fees they wish, but they will probably be working with amounts too small for traditional money transmitters, i.e. much less than 5000 php. on a weekly repayment schedule. For the record, I will not be making the loans. I am only assisting in an advisory capacity to help with development of Bitcoin in third world nations. I don't know the legalities of these situations, but it's my understanding that it is a dangerous business. Bitcoin will eventually find a niche that doesn't compete with Western Union, but will coexist peacefully with traditional money transmitters until they are no longer necessary.

https://sendmoney.coins.ph/

the minimum available thru this is P26 but the3 sender would be wiped out due to cost of $ to bitcoin exchange most probably

Here are a couple of small remittance estimates and you can see if they work for ur intended use

P500 sent =...2% approx $ to bitcoin P10 + 3% exchange spread when selling bitcoin to peso P15 + P10 mobile money gcash = P35 cost or 7% cost

or lbc etc cash pick up P30 = P55 or 11%

P200 sent = 2% approx $ to bitcoin P4 ( assuming there is no fee or minimum in buying bitcoin with $ as if there is it will never be worth sending in this or any other method from outside Philippines ) + 3% spread bitcoin to pesos ( there is no minimum for this) = P6 + P15 cash pick up lbc total P25 or 12.5%..

so small amounts can be done at a higher % cost which however is far lower than western union who probably will eat up 90% + of the remittance on low amounts

The local bitcoin spread is already about 7 - 10 % each way...$ to bitcoin and then bitcoin to pesos and then you will still need to go thru a remittance service so that is more expensive.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: cbeast on July 27, 2014, 09:46:27 PM

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost

With localbitcoins or mycelium, any money service or pawnshop can be a padala. I'm aiming at the low end 5/6 lenders and such. They can set any fees they wish, but they will probably be working with amounts too small for traditional money transmitters, i.e. much less than 5000 php. on a weekly repayment schedule. For the record, I will not be making the loans. I am only assisting in an advisory capacity to help with development of Bitcoin in third world nations. I don't know the legalities of these situations, but it's my understanding that it is a dangerous business. Bitcoin will eventually find a niche that doesn't compete with Western Union, but will coexist peacefully with traditional money transmitters until they are no longer necessary.

Swordsoffreedom

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

I've only been away 4 months and so much has happened. I can't wait to get back. I will not be starting an exchange. I'm really not even planning a big business. My goals are to educate people about Bitcoin and facilitate getting businesses to accept it. I will work on a donation basis, but will likely get an SEC license to cover myself. I have ideas in how to expand into a business, but at this point I'll play it safe.

That sounds like great news I hope you have the best of luck in your business venture and don't forget to tell us how it goes I am curious how the Philippines will adopt Bitcoin and its related technologies.

qwerty555

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Quote from: dwi0021 on July 27, 2014, 10:40:20 PM

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost

There is also quickcoin via facebook

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7007350

That was exactly the calculation I was looking for. Approximate cost 11%.. If however they have the pesos deposited in a BPI bank account that would be free and and save them P125 with a total cost of P105 (4-5% ish.)

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

scipr

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Hi with the talk with remittances lately we just want to mention our Philippines rebittance company.

rebit.ph

compare our rates to other services here

https://rebit.ph/compare

qwerty555

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If bitcoin exchanges can compete with western union and other remittance center bitcoin will have bright future in the Philippines. More than 10 million OFW's are sending billions of usd to the Philippines every month.

needs promotion but eventually should be the norm..comparisons with western union and others have been made..currently with exchange rate costs its about 5% via bitcoin to bank account but 10-11% to door using traditional pdala service in Ph (after reconversion to pesos) v's 8-13% via western union and others. Most bitcoin remittance services are using approx 3% spread but with greater volume it could ..eventually...go to 1%. It will be even better if bitcoin is no longer needed to be converted to fiat to spend locally but we are (quite) a few years away from that I expect.

https://sendmoney.coins.ph/

https://rebit.ph/

dwi0021

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If bitcoin exchanges can compete with western union and other remittance center bitcoin will have bright future in the Philippines. More than 10 million OFW's are sending billions of usd to the Philippines every month.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

I'll be working with a small group I've been training called Sacred Mission Services.

qwerty555

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Merit: 250

Quote from: cbeast on July 27, 2014, 09:46:27 PM

I've only been away 4 months and so much has happened. I can't wait to get back. I will not be starting an exchange. I'm really not even planning a big business. My goals are to educate people about Bitcoin and facilitate getting businesses to accept it. I will work on a donation basis, but will likely get an SEC license to cover myself. I have ideas in how to expand into a business, but at this point I'll play it safe.

Re education and acceptance by business

this group
http://sci.ventures/

who own this
https://rebit.ph/

also have bitstars in its alpha which I like as a means to promote bitcoin as a way of remitting ( and eventually spending) to the 40 million +++ beneficiaries of remittance money

http://bitstars.ph/

http://bitstars.ph/rules

post and win..if the prize money can get to $1,000 a month or quarterly this is significantly high enough to get 100,000 + participants rising to 1 M +++ with adequate promotion. This will enable the snowballing effect of business adoption and remittance activity to gather pace.

I have been in touch and due to this being a start up with low current volume the prize money is limited. Might I suggest they open up investment in rebit.ph to the community I would have no problem investing 1 coin and so would others here I expect if they could demonstrate a realistic ROI of 2 yrs or less. ( eg 100 coins a day remittance target)

EDIT ADD

After about 2 weeks of operation this was the result as of July 3rd

http://www.techinasia.com/startup-driving-bitcoin-adoption-selfies-philippines/

As of this writing, the 700 users on the site have uploaded more than 5,000 selfies. These photos have earned 17.7 million satoshis (there are 100,000,000 satoshis in one bitcoin) in daily prizes and almost double that in tips at 32.3 million satoshis. These numbers suggest that while Bitcoin adoption cannot be completely sustained through tipping alone, users are beginning to embrace the cryptocurrency for what it ultimately is: a way to give and receive value – in other words, money.

Read more: How a startup is driving Bitcoin adoption with selfies in the Philippines http://www.techinasia.com/startup-driving-bitcoin-adoption-selfies-philippines/

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

I've only been away 4 months and so much has happened. I can't wait to get back. I will not be starting an exchange. I'm really not even planning a big business. My goals are to educate people about Bitcoin and facilitate getting businesses to accept it. I will work on a donation basis, but will likely get an SEC license to cover myself. I have ideas in how to expand into a business, but at this point I'll play it safe.

NLNico

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With worldremit.com I am pretty sure I get less than 10% even with "currency exchange rate EUR>PHP" (and they offer instant deposit through Dutch iDeal online banking system and instant pickup at several locations here in PH.)

Anyway, lately there are cheaper options with bitcoin. I made myself a simple script to calculate the amounts including all the fees (including buying bitcoin fee from Kraken) etc:

Note 1: Only Worldremit includes the fee of "pickup" option(!) The bitcoin options are free to a PH bank account, however they charge an extra fee for pickup.
Note 2: rebit.ph has a functionality to authorize through coinbase which means you don't have any risk of changing BTC price (you know how much USD you pay for specific PHP amount.) coins.ph is also working on this functionality I think.
Note 3: "Currency exchange" is the today's price of a random/average currency exchange company in Manila. It is impressive we get a higher price through bitcoin.
Note 4: I think all the calculations in my script are correct, but sorry if there is a mistake Tongue

make your own calculations too.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: beetcoin on July 27, 2014, 09:27:12 PM

Quote from: cbeast on July 27, 2014, 09:20:25 PM

Quote from: beetcoin on July 27, 2014, 08:56:18 PM

Quote from: cbeast on July 27, 2014, 09:20:25 PM

You would need to find people in the Philippines to buy your bitcoins with php also. I'm hoping that bitcoin microloans will replace the 5/6 system for poor people that have OFW friends and family. With an SEC license, you could work with money exchanges to set up online accounts for such loans and cover whole cities. Mobile apps would be safer than ATMs or brick and mortar businesses, but keep the amounts small so they don't need to handle a lot of money and require extra security. Really something like localbitcoins or mycelium would work great. It would just take someone to teach people how.

you addressing me? you wouldn't need people in the philippines to buy your bitcoins.. you'd need for philippino people to buy bitcoins from the US or wherever they are, and then send it to the philippines. then you have an exchanger to give the recipient fiat. the exchanger, if they want, can turn the bitcoins into currency.

Right. That's what I said. OFWs send bitcoins. But exchangers don't want bitcoins. They don't have anyone to sell them to. You would need to set up an exchange for them and find Filipinos that want to invest in bitcoins.

not necessarily though. you don't necessarily need to liquidify your bitcoins in the philippines. why not cash out in another country? i wonder if it's possible to set up a bitpay account to become an exchanger where you liquidify your bitcoins for USD.

btw, aren't remittance fees to the philippines ridiculously expensive.. something like 12%?

It depends on how much and how you are sending remittance. I pay close to 10%. I tried to get coinbase to work with PNB. They say they are considering it, but that was almost two years ago. If you try to do all the money clearing yourself, I think you will have troubles with banks. There are exchanges starting in PH. Things are moving fast there!

are you sending it to family? why can't they accept bitcoin if there are exchanges there? it's kind of a hassle, i'm assuming.

I've only been helping friends. It's not much, but with all the storm devastation in the last few years I would rather help people directly so they can help others in turn. I will be back permanently soon when I am done with the family business here in the states.

beetcoin

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Quote from: beetcoin on July 27, 2014, 08:56:18 PM

Quote from: beetcoin on July 27, 2014, 08:56:18 PM

You would need to find people in the Philippines to buy your bitcoins with php also. I'm hoping that bitcoin microloans will replace the 5/6 system for poor people that have OFW friends and family. With an SEC license, you could work with money exchanges to set up online accounts for such loans and cover whole cities. Mobile apps would be safer than ATMs or brick and mortar businesses, but keep the amounts small so they don't need to handle a lot of money and require extra security. Really something like localbitcoins or mycelium would work great. It would just take someone to teach people how.

you addressing me? you wouldn't need people in the philippines to buy your bitcoins.. you'd need for philippino people to buy bitcoins from the US or wherever they are, and then send it to the philippines. then you have an exchanger to give the recipient fiat. the exchanger, if they want, can turn the bitcoins into currency.

Right. That's what I said. OFWs send bitcoins. But exchangers don't want bitcoins. They don't have anyone to sell them to. You would need to set up an exchange for them and find Filipinos that want to invest in bitcoins.

not necessarily though. you don't necessarily need to liquidify your bitcoins in the philippines. why not cash out in another country? i wonder if it's possible to set up a bitpay account to become an exchanger where you liquidify your bitcoins for USD.

btw, aren't remittance fees to the philippines ridiculously expensive.. something like 12%?

It depends on how much and how you are sending remittance. I pay close to 10%. I tried to get coinbase to work with PNB. They say they are considering it, but that was almost two years ago. If you try to do all the money clearing yourself, I think you will have troubles with banks. There are exchanges starting in PH. Things are moving fast there!

are you sending it to family? why can't they accept bitcoin if there are exchanges there? it's kind of a hassle, i'm assuming.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

You would need to find people in the Philippines to buy your bitcoins with php also. I'm hoping that bitcoin microloans will replace the 5/6 system for poor people that have OFW friends and family. With an SEC license, you could work with money exchanges to set up online accounts for such loans and cover whole cities. Mobile apps would be safer than ATMs or brick and mortar businesses, but keep the amounts small so they don't need to handle a lot of money and require extra security. Really something like localbitcoins or mycelium would work great. It would just take someone to teach people how.

you addressing me? you wouldn't need people in the philippines to buy your bitcoins.. you'd need for philippino people to buy bitcoins from the US or wherever they are, and then send it to the philippines. then you have an exchanger to give the recipient fiat. the exchanger, if they want, can turn the bitcoins into currency.

Right. That's what I said. OFWs send bitcoins. But exchangers don't want bitcoins. They don't have anyone to sell them to. You would need to set up an exchange for them and find Filipinos that want to invest in bitcoins.

not necessarily though. you don't necessarily need to liquidify your bitcoins in the philippines. why not cash out in another country? i wonder if it's possible to set up a bitpay account to become an exchanger where you liquidify your bitcoins for USD.

btw, aren't remittance fees to the philippines ridiculously expensive.. something like 12%?

It depends on how much and how you are sending remittance. I pay close to 10%. I tried to get coinbase to work with PNB. They say they are considering it, but that was almost two years ago. If you try to do all the money clearing yourself, I think you will have troubles with banks. There are exchanges starting in PH. Things are moving fast there!

beetcoin

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

You would need to find people in the Philippines to buy your bitcoins with php also. I'm hoping that bitcoin microloans will replace the 5/6 system for poor people that have OFW friends and family. With an SEC license, you could work with money exchanges to set up online accounts for such loans and cover whole cities. Mobile apps would be safer than ATMs or brick and mortar businesses, but keep the amounts small so they don't need to handle a lot of money and require extra security. Really something like localbitcoins or mycelium would work great. It would just take someone to teach people how.

you addressing me? you wouldn't need people in the philippines to buy your bitcoins.. you'd need for philippino people to buy bitcoins from the US or wherever they are, and then send it to the philippines. then you have an exchanger to give the recipient fiat. the exchanger, if they want, can turn the bitcoins into currency.

Right. That's what I said. OFWs send bitcoins. But exchangers don't want bitcoins. They don't have anyone to sell them to. You would need to set up an exchange for them and find Filipinos that want to invest in bitcoins.

not necessarily though. you don't necessarily need to liquidify your bitcoins in the philippines. why not cash out in another country? i wonder if it's possible to set up a bitpay account to become an exchanger where you liquidify your bitcoins for USD.

btw, aren't remittance fees to the philippines ridiculously expensive.. something like 12%?

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

You would need to find people in the Philippines to buy your bitcoins with php also. I'm hoping that bitcoin microloans will replace the 5/6 system for poor people that have OFW friends and family. With an SEC license, you could work with money exchanges to set up online accounts for such loans and cover whole cities. Mobile apps would be safer than ATMs or brick and mortar businesses, but keep the amounts small so they don't need to handle a lot of money and require extra security. Really something like localbitcoins or mycelium would work great. It would just take someone to teach people how.

you addressing me? you wouldn't need people in the philippines to buy your bitcoins.. you'd need for philippino people to buy bitcoins from the US or wherever they are, and then send it to the philippines. then you have an exchanger to give the recipient fiat. the exchanger, if they want, can turn the bitcoins into currency.

Right. That's what I said. OFWs send bitcoins. But exchangers don't want bitcoins. They don't have anyone to sell them to. You would need to set up an exchange for them and find Filipinos that want to invest in bitcoins.

beetcoin

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250