Topic: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th] - page 67. (Read 470088 times)

Because you have no idea when I bought, when I sold, or what success I had, I'm going to put as much faith in the rest of your comments as I do in the above statement.


I'm guessing that's why there's no trading going on.

BTW it does matter because if tytus decides what you can sell your shares for then he's essentially controlling your ability to get out if you need. He has written extensively about how 100th gives investors an opportunity to get out.

They still can, of course, as long as he approves. If you buy above what he thinks is reasonable, you're a sucker and he'll take away your money like he has three times now. Someone tried after the announcement about the latest delays, for example, to get out at above 0.3 a few days ago, but that wasn't allowed.

What rate do you think you'll be allowed to exit if there are even further delays? 0.25? 0.2? What if tytus needs more money to fund something? What if Dave's facilities need more power?

Investors who buy now risk being left with the bill; they pay a premium in advance (up to 30% if I recall the latest BIDs) so that tytus doesn't have to run any risk of exceeding the budget. If he does, he'll just get that money from those sucker investors who paid more than he approved.

I don't care about the prices; tytus can sell for a bitcent if that's his wish. In fact, it would be great because at those levels, I might actually consider the risk of further manipulation.

It is, however, vitally important how he acts in the market because this ultimately defines who takes the risk and who can just walk over to the virtual ATM and withdraw more money from investors.

Actions like these also ultimately affects the entire Bitcoin asset trade; when actions such as the ones tytus have done are just shrugged off, we'll never be able to attract serious investments because the people with serious investments will see actions like these as madness.


I do think someone asked explicitly about this. I guess they should have asked in the BFMines thread, but they did direct their comments directly at me, just like you are doing now.

I'd be happy to refrain from talking about BFMines in here, though, as long as there aren't any direct questions or comments about it. I strongly urge anyone to keep those comments and questions in the BFMines thread instead so the focus here can remain on 100th.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btctbfmines-mining-contracts-now-available-bonus-divs-first-months-236310

.b

Furuknap, stop trolling here. You wanted to speculate (buy lower and sell higher after good news about chips) on 100TH with no big success.
The shareholders (near all of them) bought the shares for dividends, not for speculation. What Tytus do with his shares is of no importance to shareholders, because it doesn't change the sum of the dividends.

Now you have no 100TH shares and we aren't interested in reading your opinions again and again. And keep for yourself the theory about BFMINES costs, risks etc.. We know how to count on and what to think about it.
Keep this thread clean.

I've responded to this multiple times; keep in mind that the cost to a manufacturer rarely is a measure of the price or value of the output.

My costs, though, are far above BTC40, and even direct costs to not include the risk I'm assuming on guaranteeing the output of the mine. In my calculations, I've afforded myself a risk premium of around 8% per year, and I've assumed that the mining will be running for three years. If it runs longer, great, I've earned more than 8% on the risk and investors gain more in return on their investments.

Here's a simple question if you believe this is so lucrative; seeing how abundant miners on pre-orders are these days, if it was so profitable to run a mining contract cheaper than I do, why aren't there a lot of other assets popping up at more competitive prices? In fact, if you think it's so profitable, why don't you sell your own miner as a mining contract for BTC300 or 200? You'd make a killing in the market, selling at half the price of both TAT.VM and me, and you'd be much more 'honorable' than us 'scammers'.

.b

Well, I guess it is a question of whether you believe in the PPG theory (perpetual proportional growth). If you do, no mining investment will ever make back it's initial investment and Bitcoin mining is doomed. We'll also quickly run into some limitations of physics in a couple of years, but let's leave splitting silicon atoms out of the picture for now.

If, though, you believe that mining may rise on averge around 10-15% for eight to ten months and then flatten out, then mining investments make sense again.

Even better, if you believe that some providers may fail still (at the level of what BFL has already done) or if people realize that mining isn't as lucrative as they thought (BTC50 for a 13GHs AM blade, c'mon) then mining investments become lucrative (and people will come flocking back).

Any mining investment, whether contracts, companies, or hardware, will always be a bet against difficulty rising too far and too quickly. Even AM suffers from this; the investments required to keep their share of the network haven't been paid for and must come from future dividends. Too much difficulty rise and costs go up. effectively you're just outsourcing your reinvestment strategy to friedcat. He may be in a much better bargaining position than other any individual, though, and I'm guessing that's why people pay a premium on those shares.

.b

I guess what I don't understand (in general and not aimed at BFMINES which is actually one of the lower priced mining bonds), is how a lot of the mining bonds that offer no re-investment plans are going to "survive" long enough for bond owners to even make back the initial price in dividends vs. inevitable decline of the share value.

In comparison to most mining bonds, even buying USB block erupters is a EV+ proposition even power and some maintenance included. Especially the higher priced ones.

Or is it so simple that people are simply betting on cashing in on some early dividends and pass the share on at purchase price or higher to someone even worse at math then themselves?

I did:

http://coin.furuknap.net/comparing-bfmines-to-alternatives/

In short, 100th is better priced, but I cannot trust the issuer so it's a moot point. I held 100th for a while because it was a worthwhile investment, but the risk of tytus doing something like he did now is too great for me.

If you're willing to take that risk, then 100th is a cheaper asset than BFMines, no question about that.

.b

Then I guess your argument holds somewhat more water. I would still like to see you plug BFMINES into the ROI calculation you made for ASICMINER and 100TH in the comparison post and explain (not explain away) how you plan of providing positive return to anyone investing in BFMINES at IPO price.

I am aware it's not an 'ownership' stock, but I still can't shake the feeling that you purchased a 120Gh miner for BTC40 (likely less, I purchased mine including US shipping for 30) and have resold it to share holders for BTC400 and change (since the bond represents only 100 of 120 GHs/ after bonus dividend).

Just comes off as a little "pricey" (insert huge smiley face). Then again, I pretty much consider all mining bonds "scams" at this point. The market is ripe for suckers I guess.

I honestly feel that the 100TH is the only possible exception, based on the amount of hash speed and possibly early time to market.

Mpoe is something ass violently odd as a risk-averse investor in BTC shares (except his own wild ventures of course, which always pan out and are 100% scam free). Everyone should listen to him and sell your shares super cheap (to me).

Wow... Apparently, you didn't get your basic reading skills from any Swedish schools, because they seem to know what they're doing.

What about those 'suckers' that bought at market price just a few days ago, who was now delivered a 30% blow to their investments, just because tytus needed more money after miscalculating the cost?

Well, I guess that's OK; after all, he did say he'd sell at market himself, and then selling 30% below that... What's 30% between friends, right?

If you had bothered reading any of my critique, though, it is not about price because 100th is very competitively priced. The issue is how tytus runs picostocks and his approach to the market. If you had bought at a price that resembles mine (around 0.75) you would now have lost more than half your investment. Seems like a great investment now, right?

Why do you think the market doesn't want to pay as much for 100th as they pay for BFMines or TAT.VM? What do you think my investors would say if I broke my promise to keep the price at the announced level just because I had some extra bills to pay? Do you think perhaps they may say that 'why did I have to pay X when someone else just paid X-Y?'

In any case, a few weeks ago, I wrote about why 100th is no longer a viable asset to me, and tytus just demonstrated I was right.

http://coin.furuknap.net/100th-went-from-great-investment-to-disaster-in-one-act/

He was doing very well with his previous announcement, but once again failed to keep his promise, so it's sort of moot.

.b

Ballsy of a "fund owner" selling 100gh/s for 400 BTC to criticize a mining OP that will offer (at current price) a possible 25% dividend in the first month or two of operation (based on 100th running in aug) while his fund is EV- from IPO price and just accelerated its demise with diff increases.

They just put the 5000 wall,oh no,only 1000.

This has to be the most poorly maintained thread of all mining operations. I understand you guys are working hard to be up and running in August, but seriously...

No updates? No pictures? No projections? No FAQ?

At all?

Even Friedcat posts more often than you guys

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You didn't mention anything about your previous business history/qualifications. In the end of the day we are investing in you to pull this off.

I can't fault you for talking too much, so that's a plus. If you read more you'd at least get the genders straight.

well someone has to keep the trolls well fed

Don't take him seriously, he spams all over the forums with this: "This user is currently ignored." ,)

...i wasn't asking for financial advice, i'm just interested in other people's opinions. the bullshit i'll weed out myself.

either way, fruitless discussion, moving on.

Your memory is either very bad or else the general assemblage is kind of broken. Don't be afraid of quoting.

As to the other point: I'm not here to do your homework, I'm here to laugh at you, your bad memory, your broken general assemblage and your missing homework.