Placing coins in storage or setting stop losses?

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on February 23, 2020, 08:53:28 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on February 22, 2020, 01:30:32 AM

as for market cap, that is the problem nowadays with people, they think just because a website called coinmarketcap.com ranks a coin on top then it must be good or safe to use!

In terms of investment looking into top 10 in a website called coinmarketcap wouldnt hurt a bit. There are people trusted the ranking of cryptocurrency coins listed there. Yeah youre definitely right. Good or safety of coins must not be dependant on that? Can I ask? for people who dont have much experience and knowledge which reference should they seek advise or any legit website to depend on? I appreciate if you could recommend some.

Most investors and traders response, when newbies asking which coin to invest with, I am sure more of them will response just choose top 10, 20 or even 50 in the market to be safe (pretty sure they are referring to CMC). There is no such thing as safe, cause even bitcoin its still risky. Dont see much difference aside from the centralization of tether and btc when it comes to OP's topic IMO.

Yes no decision ormove is safe at all for everything we do here inside the crypto involves risks but having to invest into a coin that belongs to the top 10, 20 or 50 of exchanges specially cmc will have huge less in the risk you are taking, for people who don't have much knowledge to dependently decide which coin to chose it is really better to lean on popular sites likes cmc.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on February 23, 2020, 08:53:28 AM

In terms of investment looking into top 10 in a website called coinmarketcap wouldnt hurt a bit. There are people trusted the ranking of cryptocurrency coins listed there. Yeah youre definitely right. Good or safety of coins must not be dependant on that? Can I ask? for people who dont have much experience and knowledge which reference should they seek advise or any legit website to depend on? I appreciate if you could recommend some.

People who don't have enough knowledge and experience shouldn't be investing in the first place, they should learn until they are able to make their own judgement and not rely on some public websites to tell them where to put their money, because its a sure way to lose them.

Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on February 23, 2020, 08:53:28 AM

Most investors and traders response, when newbies asking which coin to invest with, I am sure more of them will response just choose top 10, 20 or even 50 in the market to be safe (pretty sure they are referring to CMC). There is no such thing as safe, cause even bitcoin its still risky. Dont see much difference aside from the centralization of tether and btc when it comes to OP's topic IMO.

There's a huge difference between Bitcoin and every other coin - Bitcoin is the king of this market, and alts always mirror its performance. Altcoins are much more riskier than Bitcoin, thousands of them have already died, but Bitcoin is still alive and well.

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Quote from: pooya87 on February 22, 2020, 01:30:32 AM

as for market cap, that is the problem nowadays with people, they think just because a website called coinmarketcap.com ranks a coin on top then it must be good or safe to use!

In terms of investment looking into top 10 in a website called coinmarketcap wouldnt hurt a bit. There are people trusted the ranking of cryptocurrency coins listed there. Yeah youre definitely right. Good or safety of coins must not be dependant on that? Can I ask? for people who dont have much experience and knowledge which reference should they seek advise or any legit website to depend on? I appreciate if you could recommend some.

Most investors and traders response, when newbies asking which coin to invest with, I am sure more of them will response just choose top 10, 20 or even 50 in the market to be safe (pretty sure they are referring to CMC). There is no such thing as safe, cause even bitcoin its still risky. Dont see much difference aside from the centralization of tether and btc when it comes to OP's topic IMO.

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Quote from: pooya87 on February 22, 2020, 01:30:32 AM

the difference with bitcoin is obvious! it is the centralization of Tether. it is owned by Bitfinex parent company and is 100% controlled by them. and that means it is highly risky to use it let alone to store it for long term.
on top of all that, this company has always been shady about Tether. they assure you that it is backed by dollar with 1:1 ration but they have never been able to provide any proof or guarantee nor were they ever properly audited. they always evade it!

They have rights to issues as many Tether USD as they want (if we assume that they don't really have dollars back for Tether USD at the ratio 1:1 as they claimed to do). There are many FUDs on this (but I thing they are rights) and manipulated the market with bad news relate to Tether USD and Bitfinex times to times. No one knows the severity of this issue, but I believe there are issues with Tether USD.

Quote

as for market cap, that is the problem nowadays with people, they think just because a website called coinmarketcap.com ranks a coin on top then it must be good or safe to use! they should really stop doing that and start looking into altcoins from perspectives that matter like the things i mentioned above. market cap is meaningless.

In fast changing market like crypto, market cap does not make any sense. Price can skyrocket and lift total market cap up and in contrast, when price flash dumps we will see marketcap drops quickly.

There is another thing, premined, instamined coins/ tokens and hold by their teams. Those amount of coins/ tokens should be excludd from marketcap.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on February 21, 2020, 04:40:34 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on February 21, 2020, 12:58:48 AM

but as someone who wants to "store" for longer periods of time you must never touch a centralized and crappy altcoin such as Tether (aka USDT). it is highly risky to use that. it can disappear in any moment and it doesn't matter how safe it looks so far.

Why because its an "altcoin"? Tether is also supported by some hardware wallets so I dont get why its different than bitcoin? For trading isnt advisable cause as what you mentioned its great use is inside the exchange to defeat volatility. Storing purposes what's the difference? Nothing isnt it. I dont think a top 6 market cap coin would suddenly vanished in any moment.

the difference with bitcoin is obvious! it is the centralization of Tether. it is owned by Bitfinex parent company and is 100% controlled by them. and that means it is highly risky to use it let alone to store it for long term.
on top of all that, this company has always been shady about Tether. they assure you that it is backed by dollar with 1:1 ration but they have never been able to provide any proof or guarantee nor were they ever properly audited. they always evade it!

as for market cap, that is the problem nowadays with people, they think just because a website called coinmarketcap.com ranks a coin on top then it must be good or safe to use! they should really stop doing that and start looking into altcoins from perspectives that matter like the things i mentioned above. market cap is meaningless.

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Quote from: minairia3 on February 20, 2020, 11:16:57 PM

Quote from: jossiel on February 20, 2020, 06:48:34 PM

To manage this is to convert your altcoins into bitcoin or USDT and keep it on a hardware wallet.

This is what Ive always do. But I am storing most of my btc asset on Binance cause Im using it for trading, so it will really depends on how you need it. For holders, put it on a hardware wallet. For traders, good to secure one too but keeping it on a spot balance still okay as long you trust the exchange or platform.

Yes, traders usually want to liquidate it when there's time or if they want to. While the holders, nothing to think about it but to put it to a safe place like hardware wallets and as much as possible we're avoiding it to store on any exchange.

Quote from: pooya87 on February 21, 2020, 12:58:48 AM

Quote from: jossiel on February 20, 2020, 06:48:34 PM

To manage this is to convert your altcoins into ~ USDT and keep it on a hardware wallet.

that is a terrible advice if the plan is "storage" not short term trading.
as someone who actively trades, it makes sense to use Tether to escape the high volatility of altcoin market specially during the mass dump seasons. but as someone who wants to "store" for longer periods of time you must never touch a centralized and crappy altcoin such as Tether (aka USDT). it is highly risky to use that. it can disappear in any moment and it doesn't matter how safe it looks so far.

You are right. I didn't mention the span of how long you should store it. So there's an exception for traders and holders. For holders, bitcoin is the safer choice and for traders, to save the current market value of your asset then USDT for short term use or if not confident with Tether, some other choice for stable coin.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on February 21, 2020, 04:40:34 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on February 21, 2020, 12:58:48 AM

but as someone who wants to "store" for longer periods of time you must never touch a centralized and crappy altcoin such as Tether (aka USDT). it is highly risky to use that. it can disappear in any moment and it doesn't matter how safe it looks so far.

Why because its an "altcoin"? Tether is also supported by some hardware wallets so I dont get why its different than bitcoin? For trading isnt advisable cause as what you mentioned its great use is inside the exchange to defeat volatility. Storing purposes what's the difference? Nothing isnt it. I dont think a top 6 market cap coin would suddenly vanished in any moment.

Except if your national currency is a shitcoin against the $ you won't make any gains by holding USDT Undecided

It's certainly more profitable to place your funds in fiat in a saving account at your bank IMO.
If you trust Tether why not holding their gold stablecoin XAUT instead? At least you would hold gold, not USD...
BTW you can't store Omni USDT on Ledgers AFAIK

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Quote from: pooya87 on February 21, 2020, 12:58:48 AM

but as someone who wants to "store" for longer periods of time you must never touch a centralized and crappy altcoin such as Tether (aka USDT). it is highly risky to use that. it can disappear in any moment and it doesn't matter how safe it looks so far.

Why because its an "altcoin"? Tether is also supported by some hardware wallets so I dont get why its different than bitcoin? For trading isnt advisable cause as what you mentioned its great use is inside the exchange to defeat volatility. Storing purposes what's the difference? Nothing isnt it. I dont think a top 6 market cap coin would suddenly vanished in any moment.

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Quote from: emd023 on February 20, 2020, 02:12:04 PM

I mean, if you do a good job of securing your accounts (2FA, etc) should you really be that worried that an exchange could get hacked? I use Binance, by the way.

2FA is just to secure your account of exchange which only saves from anyone to login to your account even if they got your password.But it doesn't save exchange's wallet so if exchanges get hacked ou will lose your money.

Binance also got hacked in the past but users lost amount were refunded by Binance itself so remember any exchange can be hacked.

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Quote from: emd023 on February 20, 2020, 03:06:14 PM

Quote from: Coyster on February 20, 2020, 02:45:38 PM

Quote from: emd023 on February 20, 2020, 02:12:04 PM

I mean, if you do a good job of securing your accounts (2FA, etc) should you really be that worried that an exchange could get hacked? I use Binance, by the way.

You use Binance and I know you have the feeling that it's one of the best exchanges, which is correct by the way, but news flash is that even Binance is not unsusceptible to cryptocurrency hacks on exchanges. And another tiny piece of information is that when your funds are on an exchange, securing your accounts isn't the issue, as you're not in total control of your funds, so once the exchange has been breached by hackers, there is a high chance you will lose your funds to them.

Has this every happened to Binance?

I don't think this has happened with Binance News like this has not been heard so far Binance is a very popular and reliable site I have invested here and loses a few dollars stops If my capital goes down it will sell itself. There is no fear of being scammed and hacked.

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Quote from: jossiel on February 20, 2020, 06:48:34 PM

To manage this is to convert your altcoins into ~ USDT and keep it on a hardware wallet.

that is a terrible advice if the plan is "storage" not short term trading.
as someone who actively trades, it makes sense to use Tether to escape the high volatility of altcoin market specially during the mass dump seasons. but as someone who wants to "store" for longer periods of time you must never touch a centralized and crappy altcoin such as Tether (aka USDT). it is highly risky to use that. it can disappear in any moment and it doesn't matter how safe it looks so far.

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Quote from: pooya87 on February 20, 2020, 01:47:05 AM

it mainly depends on what you are holding and why!

This is true. If you have an asset that are altcoins I dont think its bad to store it on exchange especially if your goal is to trade it for some major coins such as btc.

Most of users here of course are using hard wallets for storing bitcoins. We all know that its the most safest. I did plan already on buying my hardware wallet this year but in my case. Im storing it on a third wallet trusted app though still risky.

Quote from: jossiel on February 20, 2020, 06:48:34 PM

To manage this is to convert your altcoins into bitcoin or USDT and keep it on a hardware wallet.

This is what Ive always do. But I am storing most of my btc asset on Binance cause Im using it for trading, so it will really depends on how you need it. For holders, put it on a hardware wallet. For traders, good to secure one too but keeping it on a spot balance still okay as long you trust the exchange or platform.

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To manage this is to convert your altcoins into bitcoin or USDT and keep it on a hardware wallet.

Whichever you prefer will do if the market isn't doing good. Exchanges might halt the transactions of withdrawals if something good or bad happens. Usually, the most conservative are the ones that are losing more because of their consciousness of not losing more. And the most relax ones and the people who are keeping their assets safe and just holding the ones to recover quick.

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Quote from: emd023 on February 20, 2020, 03:06:14 PM

Has this ever happened to Binance?

Prevention is better than cure.

Remember with bitfinex lost 33% of its cryptocurrency reserves? It's only done that once, are they still secure?

I see both of those ideologies as being equal, a company shouldn't have the opportunity to lose your funds especially in this space and if they do that's your problem most of the time as per their terms and conditions.

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Quote from: Coyster on February 20, 2020, 02:45:38 PM

Quote from: emd023 on February 20, 2020, 02:12:04 PM

I mean, if you do a good job of securing your accounts (2FA, etc) should you really be that worried that an exchange could get hacked? I use Binance, by the way.

You use Binance and I know you have the feeling that it's one of the best exchanges, which is correct by the way, but news flash is that even Binance is not unsusceptible to cryptocurrency hacks on exchanges. And another tiny piece of information is that when your funds are on an exchange, securing your accounts isn't the issue, as you're not in total control of your funds, so once the exchange has been breached by hackers, there is a high chance you will lose your funds to them.

Has this every happened to Binance?

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Quote from: emd023 on February 20, 2020, 02:12:04 PM

I mean, if you do a good job of securing your accounts (2FA, etc) should you really be that worried that an exchange could get hacked? I use Binance, by the way.

You use Binance and I know you have the feeling that it's one of the best exchanges, which is correct by the way, but news flash is that even Binance is not unsusceptible to cryptocurrency hacks on exchanges. And another tiny piece of information is that when your funds are on an exchange, securing your accounts isn't the issue, as you're not in total control of your funds, so once the exchange has been breached by hackers, there is a high chance you will lose your funds to them.

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Quote from: emd023 on February 19, 2020, 04:49:55 PM

Common advice is to keep your currencies safe by placing them into storage. I feel this is risky considering coins have dumped to all time lows within short periods of time. The alternative would be to keep them on an exchange and set stop losses, however, this is also risky as exchanges or your account can be compromised. How do you manage these risks?

It depends if you want to make money or not.
If you want to make money you have no other option than to place a part of your funds on a exchange and to trade them, at least from time to time. Unfortunately Bitcoin adoption is not growing anymore since several years.

emd023

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Most of you are correct, I am talking about altcoins. I am really not that interested in holding any of them but I use them to accumulate more bitcoin as their returns are greater.

Lets use MATIC as an example. MATIC went up 300% in just a week (in december). It then dumped back to where it started in just a few hours! This is an extreme example of course, but it happens. If I kept MATIC on the exchange and set a stop loss I would have made out with some pretty awesome profits. Had I moved it to storage I would likely be in a deficit. So I guess the question is, is it worth it to keep your coins on an exchange so you can avoid price drops (like the ones weve had in the last few days). Or does the risk of the exchange somehow losing your coins outweigh this?

I mean, if you do a good job of securing your accounts (2FA, etc) should you really be that worried that an exchange could get hacked? I use Binance, by the way.

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Quote from: emd023 on February 19, 2020, 04:49:55 PM

How do you manage these risks?

To answer your question, let me tell a short story.

During the ICO bubble where every project including shitcoins were massively pumped, most investors (– not really traders) joined a community initiative – The Hodl gang. Here's what happened when majority of them held those tokens till 2018; they experienced 50-80% loss in value of the coins they held.

The moral of the short story is that, Don't be greedy and then You shouldn't leave money on the table while you're holding(/hodling). If they didn't get emotionally attached and greedy to those token, they wouldn't have lost so much.

So here's what I suggest is:

– Properly analyze and buy your favorite coin.
– set an OCO (One Cancels the Other) order on binance or if you use a different exchange, set a stop loss.
– If the market goes your way, sell and buy at a retracement.

That way, You'll still be holding your favorite coin but your stash will keep growing as well as the value.

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I also think OP is talking about altcoins, and not about BTC. Some may say that altcoins are not something we should worry too much about (regarding security), but if you have some altcoins worth $10 000 on exchange, you take same risk (in terms of hacking) as if you hold 1 BTC.

You should always find a way to reduce risks to a minimum, and the first thing is maximum account security on exchange, which include unique e-mail with strong password only used for that exchange (this way user can avoid phishing e-mails), strong&unique password on exchange and real 2FA protection (no SMS). Link to access exchange should be saved in bookmarks, never use search engine to log-in to your exchange. Also it is important to save your log data in a way that it can not be hacked, so do not use unencrypted documents or any online storage.

Unfortunately the risk of exchange hacking is something that the user cannot influence, but what can be made is the choice of an exchange that has the highest level of security and years of experience. It is a well-known fact that top exchange holds only about 2% in hot wallets, which is certainly a good security practice.

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