Topic: please delete - page 2. (Read 2135 times)

Full nodes are the ones who maintain the UTXOS set and to delete a subset there must be a consensus among them all to do it and consider a TX containing one of those invalid, a soft fork I think.

Miners too must/should maintain a UTXOS set in order to add only valid transactions to their blocks and don't lose their effort & money (in MIT lectures Neha Naurela said in early days of Bitcoin a lot of miners lost a lot of money because they didn't bother to validate TXs before adding to their blocks)

So if u mean miners, not acting as full nodes at the same time, could save space by omitting UTXOS with almost Probability zero of being spent from their copy of the UTXOS set ; yes I think that could be a good idea, as they won't formally change the validation rules they just won't choose them.

No but you hinted that if someone did this then it might cause changes to have to be made to bitcoin. Which presumably would be those proposed by the OP which are indeed somewhat radical in nature. Some guy uploads a 2.4 GB video to bitcoin and everyone else has to start signaling to the network that they still want their bitcoins or else they get returned to the miners. Sounds about right...



CryptoCurrency : Craig Wright Proves He Can Code By Copy-Pasting “Hello World” Program

But he does have more degrees than Vitalik. And he did invent bitcoin so who you gonna trust?


Apparently with that particular method you linked to, you don't know the private keys so you will never spend that bitcoin that's the kind of utxos a miner would want to delete if they knew what was going on.

I don't know what your definition of "orders of magnitude" is but I doubt it. Obviously someone wanting to store some video on the blockchain needs to use an optimal compression and frame rate for their video to save money. I mean that goes without saying. Craig Wright figured it out though in that you don't have to worry about any of that on BSV, just upload the full HD video and you're good to go. But I think I could store a small video on the bitcoin blockchain using that method linked to I'm sure of it. By the way not to pimp SV too hard but I'm sure, let me capitalize that. SURE that they make it easy to download the video too which for bitcoin it would be a huge pain in the ass to do. Craight Wright being a doctor you understand he thought of everything...

It sounds like you really want me to try uploading a video to bitcoin though.

Try it! It will be very expensive if it will even work at all! Even short videos are orders of magnitude larger than a few pages of PDF.

Well why would I want to upload a video onto a platform that wasn't intended for video. I was just responding to how they uploaded the whitepaper onto the blockchain. But it cetainly seems reasonable that if they could upload satoshi's whitepaper onto the blockchain then you could also upload a short video. for longer videos, there's always bsv. (on bsv, the videos could literally be gigabytes and oneday maybe even terabytes.) and no i'm not a shill. but craig wright is a doctor and doctors know what they're talking about. usually.

"If it seems too good to be true... it probably is."

(Not sure why anyone would consider it good to bring BTC to its knees, but it seems an altcoin shill like you might like BTC to go down. However, Bitcoin is one of the most attacked software projects after the Linux kernel, probably, and it's still up and well, so any trivial attack idea has been tried thousands of times already, you can bet on that )

Edit:
I'd still love to see you try uploading a video to the blockchain.. (spoiler, it won't work, but feel free trying and wasting your time^{don't take it personal, it's just the way it is} )

No, it wouldn't. Go ahead and try it. 12 years, 700,000 blocks, you think you're the first to think of spamming the network? Go ahead, try it, let's see how far you get.

Miners and pools as a whole and collectively don't usually care. They will include any transactions that have the appropriate minimum fee, starting with those that pay higher fees.

The last few things you've been saying tho, don't seem relevant anymore. We can continue discussing the topic or what OP said, but it's likely nothing will be done about it this decade.

So just a single person trying to upload a 2 hour video off their phone could bring bitcoin to it's knees? That seems kind of bizarre/hard to believe. it's just a single video. i mean one episode of the bachelor even. (chris harrison isn't hosting anymore)


What if miners just ignored utxos that they didn't think were that important? No one is going to spend a single satoshi so they could just banish utxos like that! But then people's homemade videos might be in jeopardy.


Thank goodness. Satoshi invented bitcoin and wrote the whitepaper. The last thing we'd want is his whitepaper to be causing a bottleneck on the network. 

Well you dont have to wonder. I'm sure it's already been done. You don't think so? I'm sure there's all kinds of data being stored. Maybe some of it is not belonging to the original uploader. I bet someone will upload an entire linux distribution oneday if they haven't already!

Hopefully you won't even have to sync up at all before uploading. That would be really cool.


Back in 2009, they probably thought cpus would be running at 20Ghz in 2021. Enough said.

Yeah that is kind of pricey but obviously people are doing it. Otherwise they wouuldn't have 1+GB blocks so often. And to imagine, one day it's going to be terabyte sized blocks that's going to be generating some very serious revenue!


Actually it's not quite as bad as your slightly off calculation. The ratio there is 1.597408636411031 so it would only bloat the utxo set by a mere 59 percent.


Someone stored Satoshi's white paper that way apparently. the amazing thing is they only spent about 50 cents less than one us dollar to do that in terms of sending money to all 948 addresses. However, where it really got them is on the transaction fee. if they wouldn't have done that, they would be about $30,000 richer today.

This is getting off topic already, but all my home videos are stored in some password protected torrent called "insurance files-bitcoin leaks".

That is a theoretical limit, which has never come close to ever been reached. Average block size is around 1MB.

Let's try calculate the cost of storing single 1080p movie with 2 hours duration.

1. Calculate size of the movie

According to https://www.circlehd.com/blog/how-to-calculate-video-file-size, 1 minute of 1080p video have size 20MB.


2. Calculate the cost in BSV

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-sv recommend 1 sat/byte, which means you'll need to pay at least 2.516.582.400 satoshi (25.165824 BSV). This calculation exclude overhead (input, other output, signature, etc.).

3. Convert to USD

According to https://coinmarketcap.com/, current BSV price is $144.12.


IMO it's very expensive.

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To keep this discussion slightly on-topic, here's estimation of UTXO growth for storing same movie on Bitcoin since OP_RETURN limit is only 80 bytes (and IIRC each transaction only can have one OP_RETURN) and pool most likely won't help you store a movie. I use method which described here http://www.righto.com/2014/02/ascii-bernanke-wikileaks-photographs.html.

1. Getting amount of data can be stored on single address.

According to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Technical_background_of_version_1_Bitcoin_addresses, bitcoin address size is 25 bytes, but 4 bytes used as checksum and 1 byte used to indicate the address is for mainnet network. So we only can store 20 bytes data on each address.

2. Calculate amount of address required to store the movie.


3. Get current size of UTXO set. I use result from running command gettxoutsetinfo on Bitcoin Core (which took few minute to get the result).


4. Calculate UTXO growth



If you or someone else actually do this, you'll heavily bloat chainstate and OP's proposal is more likely to be accepted Bitcoin community

P.S. please double check the calculation and source used.

I really wonder what would happen if a copyrighted video was timestamped in a censorship-resistant block chain. Theoretically, you could upload anything in the BSV chain. The problem is that it'd take you lot of time to sync. Let alone a full node, which would require TBs of storage.

You should read the Moore's Law and the prediction about CPUs. That's where Satoshi relied back in 2009.

If we assume that every year we consume the maximal size of blocks (4MB), then it should be 10*210240 = 2,102,400 MBs, which are 2.1 TBs. Not 1.

A 1 TB drive (good to store another 10 years of bitcoin blocks) costs $30. Storage is not a problem.

All you have to do is go download the blocks and find out. let me know if you discover any good netflix originals.


So there you go! More evidence that hard drive prices and the price of storage is not going to just "keep going down". Not that it has been.


No, it's people that are desperate to send bsv because they been strangleholded by bitcoin's 1MB blocksize limit. Once they were able to convert their BTC into BSV, they started sending money like crazy I'm telling you. I'm afraid if I keep talking about bsv though that Gregory Maxwell is going to delete my account though. Plus he could penalize me for going off topic in this thread which I do apologize for and if he were to ban me I would take full responsibility.

Greg is a smart guy though. Surely he sees the problem with 1mb size blocks and why they encourage high transaction fees.


I think you meant 210240 MB per year and yes, that's a nice little blueprint for how bitcoin is able to limit its scalability right? If you can only do 210240 MB of transactions per year then you're not going to be competing with visa.

I'm really worried though they might freeze this thread or ban me because it did get a bit OT. But it has been interesting.

I'm not sure about Craig Wright, I mean Satoshi. But he's not a dummy. He has to have some type of brain on him.

That may very well be. It certainly doesn't seem to be a sustainable model having as a goal to push terabyte sized blocks. But you do have to give credit to BSV. They're not just your father's cryptocurrency.

What do these weirdos save in their block chain anyways? Whole movies? Why would they publish 10 blocks with 1GB of data each?

The prices aren't obviously always going down. Take for instance Chia (the cryptocurrency that uses Proof of Storage); the prices of HDDs skyrocketed.

Who made 64,000 transactions in BSV? LOL! Are they spamming their own Bitcoin?

Probably days, even if it's a shit-fork.

Check this: https://bitcoinsv.io/documentation/miners/system-requirements/

I would not store my home videos on BSV. That blockchain may not be running in a hundred years. It's possible the miners will keep making money, but I think youtube makes enough money to stick around for at least a hundred years.

I'd spend a couple hundred bucks and just get large spinning hard drives and make backups that way. Or even tape storage. Sorry, this is all OT already.

You are still hung up on blockchain size and you are either just living in your own bubble and don't want to hear it or have some other agenda.
But for the sake of it lets run with BSV. As of today their blockchain is a little under 1TB as can be seen here: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-sv or here:https://explorer.viawallet.com/bsv/statistics/volume/volume

Even with them pushing out their bogus stupid large blocks they are still not over 1 TB

Now lets do BTC with some really inflated numbers. Although it's below it lets say the blockchain today is 400GB

Now lets say every block from today on out is 4MB and it's 100% filled.

4meg * 6 blocks an hour = 24 meg per hour
24mb * 24 hours = 576 MB a day
576MB * 365 days = 210240 GB per year
So a bit under 4 years go get to 1 TB

Since we have 400GB today and we have now filled 4+ years of blocks that are larger then possible we are still going to fit on a 2TB with your OS and room to spare.
Since you had them running to best buy, here you go https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-blue-2tb-internal-sata-hard-drive-for-desktops/9312076.p?skuId=9312076
$45 for 2TB

On a side note, I just put together a setup to test a node in a box going a bit high end. However:

RPi4 8GB $75
16GB sd card $10
RPi power supply $8
Geekworm NASPi 2.5 inch case $55
2TB 2.5" drive $70

So a little tiny box that can store the blockchain for YEARS and YEARS to come and run a lightning node and an electrum server and some other stuff for under $225
Could easily have shaved $50+ off the price by getting a different case a 4GB Pi and a 1TB Drive.

Stop worrying about the blockchain size.
-Dave