Topic: Please give another section to ponzis... - page 2. (Read 2712 times)
I just counted 21 ponzi topics in the first page of Gambling section. I won't visit that part anymore unless theymos edit forum.
This has come up before. The main issue is that ponzis are very similar to both other gambling sites and real investment sites, so it's difficult to create a category that includes exactly the right things. How about this:
Would this description cover any real investments or non-ponzi gambling sites? Would it fail to cover any ponzis that have existed in the Bitcoin ecosystem?
Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?
Most definitely there are people against the whole idea of a ponzi. SOME ponzi's have the ability to store 10's, 100's or 1000's of BTC like cryptodouble did and rob users in the end. The community needs to figure out trust system if you want to make this section work or else no one will know what is legitimate or what is not.Quote
Investor-based games
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.
Would this description cover any real investments or non-ponzi gambling sites? Would it fail to cover any ponzis that have existed in the Bitcoin ecosystem?
Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?
See my thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10135856
I hope that you do make this section, but at the same time organise how you will flag the scams and how you will flag legitimate sites. Just like this forum, if everyone has a negative trust rating here no one will know who is a scammer and who is not. That is EXACTLY the situation this section will go through if all of these biased and default ratings continue.
What does bear thinking about is if you create a "Ponzi" section then you run the risk of passively implying that if it's not in there then it's not a ponzi.
Yeah, that's part of why I want to create a section with very clearly defined and objective criteria.
Sure, but what do you do when Mr. X turns up with a "cloud mining" scheme offering crazy ROI, offering no proof of anything and wants it in Service Discussion?
Are you proposing some sort of vetting process or self verification for these people or will the proposed section just be for those who openly admit it's just a gambling game?
What does bear thinking about is if you create a "Ponzi" section then you run the risk of passively implying that if it's not in there then it's not a ponzi.
Yeah, that's part of why I want to create a section with very clearly defined and objective criteria.
I hope it's not wrong to quote myself and cross post it, but there is a similar thread to this going.
As a non gambler, the state of its thread doesn't bother me, and I'm sure some of the more traditional gambling sites are pissed at money going into ponzi games and not on their dice.
What does bear thinking about is if you create a "Ponzi" section then you run the risk of passively implying that if it's not in there then it's not a ponzi.
Yeah, but there's two different things going on under the 'Ponzi' label atm.
There's the ones which are clearly stating they are a game based on the ponzi concept, i.e. the punter will be paid from new money coming in, there is no underlying business, and when new "investment" stops, that's it for you, winning or losing and the site owner makes a % fee.
That's a form of gambling, but with unknown, time related risk, and these schemes already (should) go in the Gambling section.
Then there's the ones which will swear black is white that they are cloud mining, arbitraging or whatever and they have discovered a way of doing it that enables them to return impossible ROI. These people will obviously not voluntarily put their schemes in a "Ponzi" category or the Gambling Section, because they deny that they are operating one.
It would be unrealistic to want or expect BCT to somehow vet, for example, a new cloud mining service and force it to go into a new Ponzi category or the Gambling section unless it met certain critireria.
In both cases people can lose their money, but only in the latter type are they being scammed, so really the separate Category would be a bit irrelevant.
There's the ones which are clearly stating they are a game based on the ponzi concept, i.e. the punter will be paid from new money coming in, there is no underlying business, and when new "investment" stops, that's it for you, winning or losing and the site owner makes a % fee.
That's a form of gambling, but with unknown, time related risk, and these schemes already (should) go in the Gambling section.
Then there's the ones which will swear black is white that they are cloud mining, arbitraging or whatever and they have discovered a way of doing it that enables them to return impossible ROI. These people will obviously not voluntarily put their schemes in a "Ponzi" category or the Gambling Section, because they deny that they are operating one.
It would be unrealistic to want or expect BCT to somehow vet, for example, a new cloud mining service and force it to go into a new Ponzi category or the Gambling section unless it met certain critireria.
In both cases people can lose their money, but only in the latter type are they being scammed, so really the separate Category would be a bit irrelevant.
TL:DR
There's a world of difference between doublemyponzigame.lol and bitcointrader.biz.
Quote
Investor-based games
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.
Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.
I guess you can just create an alt forum in Marketplace named "Other". Also I'm not against that.
This is really irritating :
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I think many people seem to be both irritated by it and also want them gone or moved to their own section. I'm not that fussed personally but I'd probably vote for their own section if it came to it. Maybe you could add HYIP / High Yield Investment Programs to the title or description.
This has come up before. The main issue is that ponzis are very similar to both other gambling sites and real investment sites, so it's difficult to create a category that includes exactly the right things. How about this:
Would this description cover any real investments or non-ponzi gambling sites? Would it fail to cover any ponzis that have existed in the Bitcoin ecosystem?
Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?
Quote
Investor-based games
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.
Would this description cover any real investments or non-ponzi gambling sites? Would it fail to cover any ponzis that have existed in the Bitcoin ecosystem?
Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?
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Activity: 4018
Merit: 2728
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not much we can do about it...the fad will die down soon hopefully
Doubt it. That's what people said about alt coins but they're still going strong. Scams and ponzis will be around as long as bitcoin is and as long as there's a fresh new stream of idiots to throw their money at them. The only way they'll disappear from this site is if they're banned and/or the forum recieved some kind of legal trouble because of them. Maybe they could do with their own section though and theymos has at least considered it in the past.
If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.
What about this one. The OP is not asking for anyone to post anything, but is telling It does not appear to have a website
Games and Rounds.
If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.
So the posts with BTC addresses directly in the forum without a website can be reported?
Yes, though one of the ones you reported did have a website.
i absolute agree with you more section about ponzi before they rain all the gambling section
If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.
So the posts with BTC addresses directly in the forum without a website can be reported?
If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.
What about this one. The OP is not asking for anyone to post anything, but is telling It does not appear to have a website
Well they could give ponzis their own secion. They could also just name it less entertaining ways of losing your money. But then gambling is only as entertaining for as long as you have money to lose. Well then again they both have their own unique dramas. Separation would still be good.
If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.
Games and rounds are designed for giveaways. The ponzis are asking users to report their experiences with their scam ponzi sites.
Games and rounds is for when you need to post an insubstantial post in order to get some kind of prize
Games and rounds is for when you need to post an insubstantial post in order to get some kind of prize
Ponzis should definitely have its own board, but there is also a problem with that. If it has its own board it encourages more of these and people with their fake sites will be scamming people there with ease. On the other hand it will separate real gambling threads from the ponzi schemes, and while ponzis are gambling sites they work in a different way.
It won't encourage people after they lose their BTC savings. These aren't even a gamble as the operators are the only sure winners. I guarantee if there was a board with only ponzis. It would be dead after two days.
I disagree. Ponzi's are the same as Casino's. If you make a ponzi section then you're going to have to make a Dice section or a Poker section as well as it is a type of gamble. Games run differently and just because Ponzi's are just starting to become an honest gamble, you can't exclude them from the Gambling section.
Sure some sites will have bad intentions JUST LIKE MOST DICE SITES who run with investor money like Dicebitco.in...but this happens everywhere.
I have no idea why everyone is so against a ponzi game that is honest about being one, and then HYIP's that claim to invest money don't receive a scratch on their profile.
Beats me.
Do casinos shut down because they are unsustainable? No. There is a reason the model is profitable. They have a HOUSE EDGE.
You take a cut AND create an unsustainable model. As soon as the ponzi doesn't get new investments, YOU RUN and close up shop. Don't compare ponzis to any other type of gamble. There is a reason they are illegal.
Lol, are you retarded or just plain stupid? I'm starting to feel sorry for you, I feel like I'm spoon feeding you this information like a toddler.
You will close up shop as soon as no one invests in your scam. Time will show I am right. Let's see where you stand at this time next week.
Usually when someone results to insults (poor ones btw), they are on the defensive about their actions.
And no, I result to the truth. Because I am literally spoon feeding you what can already be read on our thread, on our site or anywhere that has our name in it.
Great. You write some stuff in your thread that I don't agree with. Is that understandable to you? Eventually, you won't even get those one or two deposits and you will be finished. That is the real truth. Given by your trust rating, I see that many people agree with me as well.
Eventually a dice site will never have activity and they'll have to close doors, same deal.
Your arguments are complete and utter garbage.
People label our site a scam because many ponzi sites do in away with people money, not because they agree with your quite illogical arguments
The Games And Rounds section isn't meant for that kind of stuff.
Ponzis don't really fall into "Spreadsheet games, forum-based games, and discussion of individual rounds/games on other sites.".
Besides, using a ponzi is considered gambling.
Ponzis don't really fall into "Spreadsheet games, forum-based games, and discussion of individual rounds/games on other sites.".
Besides, using a ponzi is considered gambling.
Some ponzis were already moved into there.
They are forum-based in that the transaction IDs and promotion activity are through this forum. They are also round based and have time limits.
All the threads in games and rounds fall under this description. They are all considered gambling. They are in a gambling subsection
Ponzis should definitely have its own board, but there is also a problem with that. If it has its own board it encourages more of these and people with their fake sites will be scamming people there with ease. On the other hand it will separate real gambling threads from the ponzi schemes, and while ponzis are gambling sites they work in a different way.
It won't encourage people after they lose their BTC savings. These aren't even a gamble as the operators are the only sure winners. I guarantee if there was a board with only ponzis. It would be dead after two days.
I disagree. Ponzi's are the same as Casino's. If you make a ponzi section then you're going to have to make a Dice section or a Poker section as well as it is a type of gamble. Games run differently and just because Ponzi's are just starting to become an honest gamble, you can't exclude them from the Gambling section.
Sure some sites will have bad intentions JUST LIKE MOST DICE SITES who run with investor money like Dicebitco.in...but this happens everywhere.
I have no idea why everyone is so against a ponzi game that is honest about being one, and then HYIP's that claim to invest money don't receive a scratch on their profile.
Beats me.
Do casinos shut down because they are unsustainable? No. There is a reason the model is profitable. They have a HOUSE EDGE.
You take a cut AND create an unsustainable model. As soon as the ponzi doesn't get new investments, YOU RUN and close up shop. Don't compare ponzis to any other type of gamble. There is a reason they are illegal.
Lol, are you retarded or just plain stupid? I'm starting to feel sorry for you, I feel like I'm spoon feeding you this information like a toddler.
You will close up shop as soon as no one invests in your scam. Time will show I am right. Let's see where you stand at this time next week.
Usually when someone results to insults (poor ones btw), they are on the defensive about their actions.
And no, I result to the truth. Because I am literally spoon feeding you what can already be read on our thread, on our site or anywhere that has our name in it.
Great. You write some stuff in your thread that I don't agree with. Is that understandable to you? Eventually, you won't even get those one or two deposits and you will be finished. That is the real truth. Given by your trust rating, I see that many people agree with me as well.
Just check the lounge. 
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