Please no more merchant adoption!! - page 2.

duckydonald

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Pre-sale - March 18

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 18, 2015, 08:12:59 AM

Quote from: ebliever on March 18, 2015, 08:04:56 AM

50% is excessive, but since bitcoin does offer some significant benefits to merchants (immediate payment with no chargebacks, counterfeit bills, bounced checks, risk of loss from damaged bills or robbers, armored car deliveries to the bank, etc.), it is reasonable that they could offer something like a 2-5% discount with bitcoin and still come out ahead. This is what is needed to make people want to start accumulating bitcoin for payment purposes.

As it stands I get a 2% rebate on everything I use my main credit card with, 3% for restaurants/gas/hotels with a 2nd card, and 5% for select purchases (changes each quarter) with a 3rd. So it makes no sense for me to use bitcoin, even though the merchants are indirectly paying for those rebates through the fees they pay the credit card companies.

Even with a 2-3% rebate, it makes no sense to use bitcoin. You have to go on an exchange, give out so much personal info AND a picture of yourself on many places, wait, probably pay another 1-2% at least for depositing, trading, then withdrawing. So much work, and you don't much, if at all.

I think we need a fundamentally different system, and have an ecosystem where everyone in the supply/distribution chain accepts bitcoin so that transactions can be made purely in bitcoin, thus avoiding exchanges/exchange fees.

Thats what I also said, the middle men is not good for bitcoin. Im trying to buy bitcoin but I have to pay this merchant 12 percent, then I have to pay the service, is clearly not viable that I have to pay fees just to get bitcoins. Right thats where comparison prices come into play, but the issue is getting bitcoin without the middleman

futureofbitcoin

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Quote from: ebliever on March 18, 2015, 08:04:56 AM

50% is excessive, but since bitcoin does offer some significant benefits to merchants (immediate payment with no chargebacks, counterfeit bills, bounced checks, risk of loss from damaged bills or robbers, armored car deliveries to the bank, etc.), it is reasonable that they could offer something like a 2-5% discount with bitcoin and still come out ahead. This is what is needed to make people want to start accumulating bitcoin for payment purposes.

As it stands I get a 2% rebate on everything I use my main credit card with, 3% for restaurants/gas/hotels with a 2nd card, and 5% for select purchases (changes each quarter) with a 3rd. So it makes no sense for me to use bitcoin, even though the merchants are indirectly paying for those rebates through the fees they pay the credit card companies.

Even with a 2-3% rebate, it makes no sense to use bitcoin. You have to go on an exchange, give out so much personal info AND a picture of yourself on many places, wait, probably pay another 1-2% at least for depositing, trading, then withdrawing. So much work, and you don't much, if at all.

I think we need a fundamentally different system, and have an ecosystem where everyone in the supply/distribution chain accepts bitcoin so that transactions can be made purely in bitcoin, thus avoiding exchanges/exchange fees.

EDIT: @ducky:

My point still stands. Even if you give a discount to bitcoin users, most people wouldn't know about it. You'd have to really advertise it, and even then most people would probably ignore it. It's just not worth the effort for the store, since they're not really invested in bitcoin succeeding.

duckydonald

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Pre-sale - March 18

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 18, 2015, 07:34:57 AM

Quote from: duckydonald on March 18, 2015, 07:26:45 AM

Quote from: cafucafucafu on March 17, 2015, 05:20:09 PM

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

The issue with merchant adoption is that fact they dont offer benefits to use bitcoin, so only the people who own bitcoin but,

Say if mcDonalds sells cheese burger for 99 cents each, but if you use bitcoin is 50 cents each. People that dont know what bitcoin will get curious not only to learn what it is but also to save money. Another factor is that most of you are greedy bitcoin people looking to make money off of bitcoin instead of making it exchange free without any fees, Why should people adopt to bitcoin if there is no added incentive. These are the two issues besideds the merchant adoption.

Why should McDonalds sell a cheeseburger at half price just because you're using bitcoin? I don't even think their profit margin is 50%, so they'll be selling at a loss. Why should they do that? They're there to earn money, not to be altruistic for bitcoin.

Besides, to a person who sees "0.004BTC/cheeseburger" vs "0.008BTC/cheeseburger", do you think there's a difference? When they see the first, they'll go like "hey, that's pretty cheap, let me look up what this bitcoin thing is!" and when they see the second, they'll be like "meh, it's the same price as a normal burger, why bother"?

That's obviously not going to happen, because to the average person, even to people who casually know about bitcoin, they'll have no idea how much 0.004BTC is worth.

Im giving a huge example!!! Im saying if they could. Im saying it as a point.
I been into selling and giving things out. Well another thing you can also do is give out free stuff when making a purchase with bitcon. incentives could help if its good enough. Im came with an idea for a project Ill be working on and its all about giving incentives if your using bitcoin then rather using fiat.

ebliever

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50% is excessive, but since bitcoin does offer some significant benefits to merchants (immediate payment with no chargebacks, counterfeit bills, bounced checks, risk of loss from damaged bills or robbers, armored car deliveries to the bank, etc.), it is reasonable that they could offer something like a 2-5% discount with bitcoin and still come out ahead. This is what is needed to make people want to start accumulating bitcoin for payment purposes.

As it stands I get a 2% rebate on everything I use my main credit card with, 3% for restaurants/gas/hotels with a 2nd card, and 5% for select purchases (changes each quarter) with a 3rd. So it makes no sense for me to use bitcoin, even though the merchants are indirectly paying for those rebates through the fees they pay the credit card companies.

futureofbitcoin

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Merit: 250

Quote from: duckydonald on March 18, 2015, 07:26:45 AM

Quote from: cafucafucafu on March 17, 2015, 05:20:09 PM

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

The issue with merchant adoption is that fact they dont offer benefits to use bitcoin, so only the people who own bitcoin but,

Say if mcDonalds sells cheese burger for 99 cents each, but if you use bitcoin is 50 cents each. People that dont know what bitcoin will get curious not only to learn what it is but also to save money. Another factor is that most of you are greedy bitcoin people looking to make money off of bitcoin instead of making it exchange free without any fees, Why should people adopt to bitcoin if there is no added incentive. These are the two issues besideds the merchant adoption.

Why should McDonalds sell a cheeseburger at half price just because you're using bitcoin? I don't even think their profit margin is 50%, so they'll be selling at a loss. Why should they do that? They're there to earn money, not to be altruistic for bitcoin.

Besides, to a person who sees "0.004BTC/cheeseburger" vs "0.008BTC/cheeseburger", do you think there's a difference? When they see the first, they'll go like "hey, that's pretty cheap, let me look up what this bitcoin thing is!" and when they see the second, they'll be like "meh, it's the same price as a normal burger, why bother"?

That's obviously not going to happen, because to the average person, even to people who casually know about bitcoin, they'll have no idea how much 0.004BTC is worth.

ChuckBuck

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better everyday ♥

I'm the opposite view...we need more merchant adoption!!! Grin

People on the street don't know what the F#ck Bitcoin is man...forget the wild price swings for a moment, and let's focus on getting Bitcoin's "brand" actually recognized.

Basically we need more marketing and advertising, and to do that with need to fill a niche audience first before the mainstream. And we can't even fill that niche, so let's keep adopting more merchants please!!!!

duckydonald

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Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Pre-sale - March 18

Quote from: cafucafucafu on March 17, 2015, 05:20:09 PM

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

The issue with merchant adoption is that fact they dont offer benefits to use bitcoin, so only the people who own bitcoin but,

Say if mcDonalds sells cheese burger for 99 cents each, but if you use bitcoin is 50 cents each. People that dont know what bitcoin will get curious not only to learn what it is but also to save money. Another factor is that most of you are greedy bitcoin people looking to make money off of bitcoin instead of making it exchange free without any fees, Why should people adopt to bitcoin if there is no added incentive. These are the two issues besideds the merchant adoption.

virtuose247

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for day traders, yes it is a bad thing. But Bitcoin was never formed for greedy short-term investments at first place. It is supposed to behave like a cheaper transactional medium so let it be..

Honeybooboo

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Quote from: TaunSew on March 17, 2015, 11:46:47 PM

http://www.coindesk.com/overstocks-2014-bitcoin-sales-miss-projections-3-million/

Overstock projected $12 million in sales but only had around $3 million in 2014. Overstock is also regarded as the largest merchant, both by size and volume of sales, accepting BTC. In comparison, industrial miners are said to be dumping $2 million a day to pay for their electrical and overhead expenses.

So think about it hard. Overstock only averaged like $9000 a day in BTC sales while miners are dumping $2 million a day. Yeah OP - I am sure it is those merchants killing BTC and not the high cash mining whores who are milking the blockchain dry.. Cheesy

I've always though this excuse of merchants being bad is absolute bullshit and based on flawed logic. Regardless, for bitcoin to be a success we need constant fiat money flowing in and out and more merchant adoption means more money coming in and out and also meaning more people will get involved once they can spend coins at more places. After all, what good is a currency that you can't spend?

neoneros

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I can draw your avatar!

Quote from: TaunSew on March 17, 2015, 11:46:47 PM

http://www.coindesk.com/overstocks-2014-bitcoin-sales-miss-projections-3-million/

Overstock projected $12 million in sales but only had around $3 million in 2014. Overstock is also regarded as the largest merchant, both by size and volume of sales, accepting BTC. In comparison, industrial miners are said to be dumping $2 million a day to pay for their electrical and overhead expenses.

So think about it hard. Overstock only averaged like $9000 a day in BTC sales while miners are dumping $2 million a day. Yeah OP - I am sure it is those merchants killing BTC and not the high cash mining whores who are milking the blockchain dry.. Cheesy

So we should be able to pay the electric bill with bitcoin and that will solve the problem. We should focus out attention to the energy market and enforce bitcoin. It would not only keep the $2 mill worth of bitcoin going round in the chain in stead of being dumped for fiat.

TaunSew

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http://www.coindesk.com/overstocks-2014-bitcoin-sales-miss-projections-3-million/

Overstock projected $12 million in sales but only had around $3 million in 2014. Overstock is also regarded as the largest merchant, both by size and volume of sales, accepting BTC. In comparison, industrial miners are said to be dumping $2 million a day to pay for their electrical and overhead expenses.

So think about it hard. Overstock only averaged like $9000 a day in BTC sales while miners are dumping $2 million a day. Yeah OP - I am sure it is those merchants killing BTC and not the high cash mining whores who are milking the blockchain dry.. Cheesy

gadman2

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Yeah, lets just stop right here with less than 0.1% of businesses around the world accepting bitcoin! That'll surely take the prices up!

futureofbitcoin

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such short sightedness. I really don't understand why so many people think this.

You're sacrificing just a little bit of the current price, but you're building a solid foundation for bitcoin to go mainstream, and to the moon, so to speak. How can bitcoin go mainstream if no one accepts it? Getting rid of merchants might temporarily increase bitcoin's price, but it'll harm bitcoin's price in the long run.

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

It doesn't really matter if every business in the world accepts Bitcoin if no one is buying things with Bitcoin. Merchant adoption beyond a point is meaningless without consumer acceptance. The whole Xapo Debit Card idea will eliminate any need for further merchant adoption. When these cards hit the market all businesses will have been assimilated. What we need is more people adoption.

R2D221

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Quote from: ebliever on March 17, 2015, 10:23:24 PM

Can you imagine a campaign of people calling for Amazon and Walmart and so forth to accept gold and fretting about the future of gold if they can't get it accepted?

No, I can't. Alas, Bitcoin is not gold, and is meant to be a payment system, which fits with Amazon and Walmart's interests.

ebliever

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Quote from: randy8777 on March 17, 2015, 10:01:24 PM

i believe merchant adoption is the most important part of the success of bitcoin.
if we can't spend our coins on stuff we can buy it basically is useless.

It's important, but that overstates the case because the utility of bitcoin is much larger than merchant-consumer transactions. Consumer transactions could actually be considered fairly low on the list of priorities for bitcoin to be a roaring success over the long run. You can't do very much financially with lumps of gold any more, but that doesn't mean it has lost utility as a store of value. (Can you imagine a campaign of people calling for Amazon and Walmart and so forth to accept gold and fretting about the future of gold if they can't get it accepted? ;-)

randy8777

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i believe merchant adoption is the most important part of the success of bitcoin.
if we can't spend our coins on stuff we can buy it basically is useless.

ebliever

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I've been including the attached fliers in my bill payments the last couple weeks; note that one of the line items urges merchants to use bitcoin with their own supply base so they extend the benefits of using bitcoin on both the customer and supplier/vendor sides. That would be a major step forward, if we start seeing companies transact in BTC between themselves.

http://imgur.com/a/PwgdJ

Chef Ramsay

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I know the more well known places that take bitcoin as a payment further legitimized it when joe q public asks what's the point of having it and where can one spend it. However, unless a retailer is offering a decent sized discount for using it they aren't passing on the advantages that bitcoin offers for utilizing it above and beyond paying in fiat or on traditional plastic. Basically, we're stooges for paying with it until they offer discounts or we're just letting them get over on us and in reality, the average person using old payment systems is getting better deals as the company isn't making extra profit. This ecosystem needs and wants greater adoption rather than companies just taking our coins and dropping them at bitpay but adoption will happen faster when the family shopper is getting discounts for paying in bitcoin or paying it in a form they may not totally realize they in fact are paying with it.

GenTarkin

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OP ... thats an extremely shortsighted statement!
What are you gonna say when ur talkin to someone and they ask "well where can I use it, spend it?"
... "oh theres a few places".....

Think long term dude, u want to be able to say "EVERYWHERE!"

Being able to state the latter encourages consumer adoption and thats what Bitcoin needs is consumer demand. Among other things... lol

Topic: Please no more merchant adoption!! - page 2. (Read 2789 times)