Topic: Poker Strategies/Hand Analysis Discussion. (No low quality generic posts) (Read 130 times)

You are right with most things, but there is one part that is important and could be misunderstood: you mentioned mindfulness

Since you called this a "strategy", it sounds as if this is a move you frequently use throughout the tournament. That is where I clearly say it is a losing move, you can do the statistics and don't get fooled by the excitement you feel when it works out a couple of times. It usually still doesn't win you the SitnGO or MTT.

I would rather call it a tactic or a single move that you can either make use of in the very first hands of a tournament or when you have identified a player/ some players at a table that are likely to fall for it and where you know that your AJ might already be good enough to suck someone in with KJ or A9.

But since you now also mentioned that many players are at best involved in a hand, then the move is severely limited in its effect. You have to take into account positioning (UTG1, UTG2 etc.), chip stacks, and how many good players there are. If it's 9-way and there are 3-4 really good guys playing, I would try to trap you and not the noob. I'd literally wait for the moment if I am lucky enough to get a monster hand and provoke you to try to push me out of the hand.

I stick to what I have said earlier. In a tournament that's mostly played by weak players and low stakes, this is indeed something I do too at times. Overbets, snap all ins, etc.

But by the way when I mention high stakes, it doesn't necessarily mean that there are no idiotic players. There still are because "high" is relative and some maybe don't care about a buy in that I would consider "high".

And one more question: what range of hands are you talking about when you consider that move? If the flop is 10/5/2, you played 10/9, overbet the river and your opponent goes snap all in. Is it a call? In a low stakes tournament it is because I don't give a damn about the buy in most of the time, but if there is something on the line, I would rather be careful because of my weak kicker.

If you are talking about monsters only where you literally have the nuts on the river so to say, then an overbet could destroy future value because you don't give your opponent the chance to improve their hand and put more value into the middle.

So overbetting sometimes wins you additional value in a single hand, but sometimes destroys potential future value because overbets push out your opponent. Looking at it from a value perspective both flop-related and with respect to the turn and river, this tactic may not be favorable if you apply long-term EV considerations.

In keeping my post short I somehow compromised preciseness. You are right and I should have mentioned that most of the time you have to do this move after river preferably having many players in it (so that everyone can make notes ). This can be 1x, 2x, or maybe 75% of the pot not necessarily 5x ( I thought it would be obvious) as long as you get to give an impression of an overly bluffy player.

Well, I think I will disagree here. I think most players will hero-call me and will surely try to trap me.
What makes a player rational, yes it the knowledge of ranges and opponent's patterns (notes) that is exactly why a rational player (who is more attentive) will call me more. As I said especially in the early stages of tournaments when tables are changing quickly and all you have is one or two hands notes on me (played with deception)  to make the decision.
I understand that any genius will beat me most of the time but a wide range of players will not.
Regarding concerned stakes, I am a low/mid-stake player (10-25 NL) so I do not have much idea about high stakes.
   
I mean there are some scenarios where you will go broke no matter what. It is not that just because I am doing a strategy I have to play every hand like that . I thought mindfulness was obvious.

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I know you are a strong player as I have played many times against you. I am thankful that you are providing your POV and experience in this thread. I think we both have similar playing styles (though you might not admit that) and I respect your opinions.

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Nice strategy specially playing offline with new players. I do not think doing this online is feasible but you can always ask what this 'staddle' means? ;

True, almost everyone can play nuts it is the art of bluffing that makes you a good player. 

You are doing it the right way. It shows that you are a attentive player which is very difficult to play with as you will be quick to realize the changes in opponents pattern and adjust you game accordingly. This is the essence of exploitative poker.

  (For online play).

I think we all are low-stakes players here (correct me if wrong). I occasionally play 50NL and 100NL but very rarely.

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I understand, was just pointing out an obvious psychological hurdle many have which is to keep emotions away as much as possible. Thanks for clarifying it anyway.

Well, you are right, the main idea is to keep your Dopamine/Adrenaline spikes down so that your base level does not rise too frequently with a particular action/incident at the table.
This will allow you to take more rational decisions otherwise your mind will force you to chase the previous dopamine spike which will lead you to play more silly hands and entering in less profitable pots. Do not underestimate the power of your mind if left untrained (or trained ).
 
I do not think this is a sustainable strategy for most of us, I got the point though

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Being calm means different things to different people. It's not like i am going for baits (or least i don't think i am).

I think that acknowledging feelings can be an edge for me, as long as recognize and deal with them correctly, and not just act on them. Feelings are natural part of my processing and helps me emphasize how others could think. Numbing them would make me potentially lose my interest and focus.

But that's just me, i recon this way is not for everyone. Boredom is/was definitely my biggest flaw, and something my meds help with now.

One of the ways for me to be played and get not bored is when i am tired. I think it must be because i am relaxed, or just too tired to be bored or anxious . I might also experience time differently.

Two of my best performances  in tournaments were when i was barely awake, and went to sleep right after.

I am less than a frequent player but know enough to realise poker is as much about
psychology as it is about the cards. So when I start off playing I play my first 5
or so hands as if I am "only learning" to give everyone else that impression.

My game play is mostly based on bluffing but isnt that the case most of the time
for most players?

My bluff is very similar to memehunter's play but instead after winning a few
small pots I completely change tactic and fold everything after winning. I then
start bluffing again when I have a run of nothing hands. This all changes whenever
I draw quality hands, and I mix what hands I show, some bluffs I show, some I dont
but I always show my top hands.

As regards psychology, its important to obviously have a poker face or maybe 3 poker
faces for different plays and to mix them up , its also important  to try and get a read
on the opponents.

I also want to add that I only play low stakes because I dont play enough to feel
comfortable with my strategies to go high stakes.

This may work in early stages of the tournament mostly where it is about low stakes. If you play in higher stakes tournaments against good players, this is a losing strategy of the time. The problem is if you raise say 5x the tiny pot and show your cards and then in another hand you raise 5x the tiny pot and got a good hand, you would still have to build the pot afterwards. If you snap fire all in on the flop, the opponent should only be calling if they hit the flop.

I know that there are dudes who call with King high then, but this is quite rare and really in low stakes poker. A rational player wouldn't do that. And don't forget that the range of your opponent is hard to assess, too. If you demonstrate that your range is unpredictable, then it is as likely that someone else will call you with an unknown range.

Let's say you play AK suddenly and you semi-miss the pot, but still got some value. You could always get stuck as over bluffing or semi over bluffing pots can get you stuck where your value position is subpar, but since you over bluffed it you may be inclined to play the hand till the end.

Set ups play a huge role as well. You could get stuck with a strong hand against an even stronger hand, like AQ vs. AK. That is why at least in higher stakes tournaments, you would sometimes prefer pot control over the lucky shot.

Of course in lower stakes tournaments where you don't really care about losing the buy in, you can take the risk and play it like this and get every strong hand all in despite the risk to be up against a stronger kicker or top pair.

Or may be you are pretending to be a fish (recreational player) . I think you are triple bluffing as @o48o just told us. Quite deep strategy mate

21 is a 2008 American heist drama film directed by Robert Luketic. The film is inspired by the story of the MIT Blackjack Team as told in Bringing Down the House, the best-selling 2003 book by Ben Mezrich.
This has nothing to do with poker .
I mean you do understand poker and blackjack are two different games, right? Or maybe you are triple bluffing again.

Honestly Im not a professional poker player but indeed I enjoy playing poker so merely a hobby and enjoyable fun activity for me. I didnt know that there were deeper strat on poker. I am looking forward to reading more on discussion here might as well learn something.

But theres a movie I watched and they employ a technique counting cards. The scene is on Vegas, does it really happened in real life? I mean that kind of strategy? Forgot the movie name was but it has something 21 on the title.

The risk/Reward ratio is good enough for me, especially in the early stages of the tournament. Where tables change quickly and nobody has time to put on some reads. Although you have to be careful in cash games, it is still a lot better than playing super tight.

You must be kidding me almost 99% of players are playing the same ranges (20-25% VPIP) when it comes to tournaments especially early on. People are overfolding a lot which can also add up quickly .

You are right but only a few serious players will pay attention to that. The majority will simply look at their notes on you which should be like this 'Bluffy fish overbetting any two' especially when everyone is mulitabling.

The word 'exploitative' is better in the poker field. And I agree when everybody is playing GTOish you should play exploitative. Although having sound knowledge of GTO will make you more lethal.

I know that he knows that I know that he knows...

Having any kick is not good for a poker player. It will act as a barrier to long-term development. No kicks no trigger points stay calm an compose every time.

No way! You have made a great post which requires energy and focus. I am very thankful to you that you shared your strategy with us to stay connected and I am sorry if I sounded too critical(rude).

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I understand the psychology behind showing your cards after they fold, and in some cases, that's definitely profitable (If people flag you like you want them to).

This also relies on others folding, because even if you are losing only small pots, those add up quickly. And depending how lucky you end up being, it can backfire and make your tactic transparent by you not calling if they rise the pot. There's a reason why everyone is trying to play aggressive at the start.

But as the game is not about winning every hand anyway, being inconstant how you play right after using this tactic would definitely be beneficial and confusing.

Personally i think that showing your cards afterwards is just too transparent bait, and since it's during the start, i wouldn't even think that it's some kind of triple bluff, because there are ton of fishes in the game.

Best "tricks" that i am using are psychological. Reading patterns in people is hard in online games, and almost impossible with frequently ganging tables, but it can be an edge. I mainly focus on my own mindset, where i combat my frustration and try to focus. Realizing the fact that i am not trying to win every hand, or good pocket pairs. What i am trying to figure out is how others are playing those hands and what i am up against.

Biggest kicks i get from getting rid of players who are trying to control the table, while making them think i am just ragebetting against their semi-good hand. That requires some luck and good timing.

Sorry if this too vague, but imho reading people in poker isn't equivalent to chess, where you can calculate moves, while on poker, you need the context (or feel) of the players.

Really "Falcon Punch" . Sorry to break it down to you but this strategy is terrible.
You are waiting for a good pair be it JJ+, so you are playing only 2% of the hands. . First of all, you will be blinded out in most of the scenarios as you will simply not get enough hands mathematically. Second, it is way easier for your opponent to put you on a very narrow range which will lead to a ludicrous amount of blind stealing from you. And they will simply fold against your open.
I suggest you open more hands, the ideal range for a recreational player like you would be 20-22%.

In the past I used to play poker online with friends, but not the way you are thinking, my friends used to come to my house, we mix our bankrolls and join to a table on a single account, the we used to do a move that we call "Falcon Punch". The strategy was simple, we wait to get a good pair like AA, KK, o QQ, and then go all in. Simple as that but efective, we walked away with profit most of the times we try It.

Let me give you one of my strategies related to, 'table image'. This is probably the most valuable one. I will try to keep it short and precise;
You overbluff in very small pots (2x-5x the pot) and if they fold, you win if they call, you lose a small pot but either way, make sure to let them see your cards. . Do it very carefully in very small pots a couple of times and you will establish an image of an overly bluffy player. Now just wait for the nuts and repeat the same action, you will be surprised to see that they will call you with anything.
This is especially useful in earlier stages of tournaments when blinds are quite low and pots are also small.

This thread is specifically for discussing poker strategies and hand analysis. Any low-quality and generic post will be deleted (zero tolerance).

What types of poker games can be discussed here?
NLHE and OMAHA (4 and 5 card variants) only. You can discuss both cash games as well as tournaments.

Can I post information about joining any free/paid tournament or cash games on any platform?
No. Any such information will be deleted if your sole purpose is to just post that information. However, if that information is part of your strategy/hand analysis, bankroll building, and table selection you can mention it but be very careful.

Anything else?
Not really, if you are a serious player and want to improve you will surely get along well here.

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