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Topic: Poll: Is Satoshi a scammer, out to enrich himself? (Read 2795 times)

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Satoshi is a Legend

.... we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of
freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled
networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be
holding their own.  Satoshi   Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:30:36 -0800
 

http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg09971.html
sr. member
Activity: 307
Merit: 250
This conclusion (Satoshi=scammer) is inescapable, if you agree with certain assumptions:
1) Satoshi is highly intelligent
2) If Bitcoin wants to become currency, it must be widely distributed and in actual use (not hoarded)
3) Bitcoin goes against point 2)

Here is why Bitcoin goes against point 2) (as has been explained on this board before):
1) Bitcoin heavily favors early adopters. 50% of the currency supply is already mined, and Satoshi holds the biggest stack.
2) This fact entices people to hold onto their bitcoin and not spend them.  
3) This fact discourages people from adopting bitcoin, as they would enrich the early adopters, unless  they believe that they are early adopters as well that can still profit from a coming wealth transfer.

Pyramid, get rich quick nature:
It seems to me, that the distribution of bitcoin heavily favors its pyramid get rich quick nature. Satoshi never wanted to create currency, but instead was out to create a pyramid to enrich himself. He cleverly disguised this pyramid as a currency.

This might be the reason why he wants to stay anonymous.

The result:
A boom of people wanting to get rich. A bust once no one enters (believing that they are too late to the get rich quick party).

Destruction of confidence after the bust.

So have we presented sufficient evidence to convince you of your idiocy, or do you require more?

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)
Satoshi would only benefit if the promises of Bitcoin come true; he wouldn't have any reasons to trick anyone. If Bitcoin wasn't good for the people using it, it wouldn't be good for Satoshi either.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Satoshi wasn't a scammer but a highly skilled computer scientist.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
Crypto Somnium
Satoshi is a Legend
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin: The People's Bailout
Quote
Is Satoshi a scammer, out to enrich himself?

No, he's a genius who's trying to liberate us from the fiat scam.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
This conclusion (Satoshi=scammer) is inescapable, if you agree with certain assumptions:
1) Satoshi is highly intelligent
2) If Bitcoin wants to become currency, it must be widely distributed and in actual use (not hoarded)
3) Bitcoin goes against point 2)

If Bitcoin does go against point 2), then fiat money will surely go against point 2).

Take USD for example, FED printed 4x more base money after financial crisis, and commercial banks hold 80% of those money and only let a small fraction of them circulate. So even USD is widely distributed and in actual use, the majority of USD is in the hands of a few bankers
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/81-5-of-money-created-through-quantitative-easing-is-sitting-there-gathering-dust-instead-of-helping-the-economy.html

Comparing with bitcoin, even Satoshi holds 1 million coins, he has only 1/21 of the total money supply, much less than the USD holdings by those bankers
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
You have this doubt because you still have faith in government issued money, so you think dump the coins for some fiat is a nice move. I guess Satoshi does not have such faith, it is clearly written in the genesis block


Instead of arguing the actual points at hand, you attack me personally, by stating that I am dumb enough to trust fiat.



I have no intention for any personal attack, and I don't think it is a bad thing to have faith in government issued money. Many people include myself have certain degree of faith in fiat money, because you can use fiat money to purchase anything domestically. But bitcoin can give some more faith due to its transparency in money supply, so dump bitcoin for fiat is not necessary until you definitely need to spend some to support your life/business/project
hero member
Activity: 688
Merit: 500
ヽ( ㅇㅅㅇ)ノ ~!!
not a scammer, but could feasible be out to enrich himself.. and that's OK! Society benefits so much by it, guy deserves some reward.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
Quote
You have not addressed my argument.

I have, the only 'argument' you're making is the tired claim that Bitcoin or the creator of Bitcoin is a scam, while bringing absolutely no proof or evidence to back it up, you're lucky I bothered to respond at all.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
You have this doubt because you still have faith in government issued money, so you think dump the coins for some fiat is a nice move. I guess Satoshi does not have such faith, it is clearly written in the genesis block



what utter bullshit. im sure whoever satoshi are they are quite well off not to give a remote shit, and likely that was the whole point of this all.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Firing it up
Satoshi only provides one of solutions to reduce the negative effects of QE by questioning. What if the people can control the total supply, can audit themselves, Extremely lowest cost of maintaining,lowest commission fee with Maximum security?

Satoshi is just the head, I don't think he does all based on the construction. I think there are four people including him, doing the thing.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
°^°
oh not that kind of thread again...
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1037
฿ → ∞
Quote
* You have not provided proof, that the 50% of the mined coins are in the hands of but a few

This is just embarrassing. Do you think before you write?

I can ensure you, that I'm far better in personal attacks than you are.  Cool
And I am very tempted to say. "YES! Contrary to you I actually DO think before I write."

You know what? Consider it being said.

Your so-called arguments are nothing but claims backed up by nothing.

And if I observe your 1-sentence "answers" to elaborated counter-arguments of other people here, I must come to the inevitable conclusion that you are nothing but a troll and I regret any second spent considering your text.

*plonk*


Rico
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Where's your actual proof of this, time and time again I see all this whining from people about how Bitcoin is a scam and it only benefits the few who own a gigantic portion of it but there is very little in the way of proof to actually support this, if you want to prove people wrong then do it with mathematics, not stating an opinion as fact and then immediately getting defensive and indignant like all of you do when somebody points out you're wrong.

. Bitcoin is open source, why would a scammer post the code to his scam for everybody to read?

. I was actually corrected about pre-mining, apparently Satoshi didn't pre-mine Bitcoin at all but I wouldn't be surprised if he had some himself, personally it doesn't bother me in the slightest if a dev has coins of their own as for miners mining a currency, people mine gold and silver and early adopters always benefited from that, central banks just print what they want for themselves and give it to their buddies benefiting in the exact same way so this stupid 'early adopters benefit too much' argument is ridiculous when you don't even compare it to existing or historical economies

. The 'hoarding' argument has been debated to death, some people are going to hold them long term so they appreciate in value, some are going to spend and some are going to save up, the thing is though if the economy doesn't produce any products that people actually want or need then what's the point of spending them? You don't just piss away your money to 'help' the economy when they aren't even providing a service or product that benefits people in some way, I'm seeing more and more shops pop up now though because of reliable payment processors appearing so perhaps the speculative phase of Bitcoin is almost over

. None of what you say is actually a fact, it's actually too early to tell whether anything of what you and many others have said is true and I highly doubt it will come to fruition because a lot of it is bullshit or mathematically improbable anyway

Oh and the fact that you talk about 'confidence' in a market also reveals to me your high school/primary school level of economics knowledge.

You have not addressed my argument.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
Where's your actual proof of this, time and time again I see all this whining from people about how Bitcoin is a scam and it only benefits the few who own a gigantic portion of it but there is very little in the way of proof to actually support this, if you want to prove people wrong then do it with mathematics, not stating an opinion as fact and then immediately getting defensive and indignant like all of you do when somebody points out you're wrong.

. Bitcoin is open source, why would a scammer post the code to his scam for everybody to read?

. I was actually corrected about pre-mining, apparently Satoshi didn't pre-mine Bitcoin at all but I wouldn't be surprised if he had some himself, personally it doesn't bother me in the slightest if a dev has coins of their own as for miners mining a currency, people mine gold and silver and early adopters always benefited from that, central banks just print what they want for themselves and give it to their buddies benefiting in the exact same way so this stupid 'early adopters benefit too much' argument is ridiculous when you don't even compare it to existing or historical economies

. The 'hoarding' argument has been debated to death, some people are going to hold them long term so they appreciate in value, some are going to spend and some are going to save up, the thing is though if the economy doesn't produce any products that people actually want or need then what's the point of spending them? You don't just piss away your money to 'help' the economy when they aren't even providing a service or product that benefits people in some way, I'm seeing more and more shops pop up now though because of reliable payment processors appearing so perhaps the speculative phase of Bitcoin is almost over

. None of what you say is actually a fact, it's actually too early to tell whether anything of what you and many others have said is true and I highly doubt it will come to fruition because a lot of it is bullshit or mathematically improbable anyway

Oh and the fact that you talk about 'confidence' in a market also reveals to me your high school/primary school level of economics knowledge.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1000
Varanida : Fair & Transparent Digital Ecosystem
No one get you in but yourself.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
Satoshi deserves to be filthy rich for creating bitcoin.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Instead of arguing the actual points at hand, you attack me personally, by stating that I am dumb enough to trust fiat.


As for your arguments:

 * You have not provided proof, that the 50% of the mined coins are in the hands of but a few


This is just embarrassing. Do you think before you write?
sr. member
Activity: 307
Merit: 250
This conclusion (Satoshi=scammer) is inescapable, if you agree with certain assumptions:
1) Satoshi is highly intelligent
2) If Bitcoin wants to become currency, it must be widely distributed and in actual use (not hoarded)
3) Bitcoin goes against point 2) and Satoshi knew this.

Here is why Bitcoin goes against point 2) (as has been explained on this board before):
1) Bitcoin heavily favors early adopters. 50% of the currency supply is already mined, and Satoshi holds the biggest stack.
2) This fact entices people to hold onto their bitcoin and not spend them.  
3) This fact discourages people from adopting bitcoin, as they would enrich the early adopters, unless  they believe that they are early adopters as well that can still profit from a coming wealth transfer.

Pyramid, get rich quick nature:
It seems to me, that the distribution of bitcoin heavily favors its pyramid get rich quick nature. Satoshi never wanted to create currency, but instead was out to create a pyramid to enrich himself. He cleverly disguised this pyramid as a currency.

This might be the reason why he wants to stay anonymous.

The result:
A boom of people wanting to get rich. A bust once no one enters (believing that they are too late to the get rich quick party).

Destruction of confidence after the bust.

I think you have scam and "Skewed towards his favour" mixed up.

At this point, the market is it's own living breathing organism.

In America, a small portion of the population controls a large portion of the money supply, just as early adopters do bitcoin, but this doesn't stop the markets from functioning, all it means is that John Doe gets to buy Porsche's and Lobster tail every night.

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