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Topic: Poll: What will the USD/BTC exchange rate do as the dollar collapses? (Read 1339 times)

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: KenJackson on December 27, 2014, 05:29:05 PM

...
My arrogant friend, had you noticed I joined this forum almost three years before you (if that matters)?
...

This is not my first, or only, account.
If you've actually been around here for three years & didn't just buy that account, your naivete borders on painful--this is Bitcoin, where nothing is as it seems.

But hey, probably lucky you hung with Bitcoin for three years without buying in. Judging by your posts, odds are youd'a "invested" your coin into some "Bitcoin security" or left it on an exchange.
Congrats on preserving your wealth in fiat.

KenJackson

full member

Activity: 127

Merit: 100

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 04:51:17 PM

My arrogant friend, had you noticed I joined this forum almost three years before you (if that matters)?

But if you made money with bitcoin, congratulations. That's something I can't say. I'm still kind of on the sidelines eying this fascinating device and wondering what the future holds for it.

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: KenJackson on December 27, 2014, 04:44:06 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 04:29:11 PM

Finally, what is the difference between printing money and printing (mining) Bitcoin?

If you're honestly equating mining bitcoin to printing fiat currency then you haven't been paying attention to what bitcoin is.

My new friend, I'd like to take this moment to welcome you to the forum. I know exactly what Bitcoin is, and made some money with it while you were watching Youtube vids made by an assortment lunatics & scammers.

If printing money doesn't create wealth, then burning fuckloads of electricity to print ~~money~~ BTC sure doesn't either.

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 04:29:11 PM

How can printing* Bitcoin "create wealth"?

It doesn't. But it's modeled after mining gold, not printing fiat currency...

My new friend, everything that's based on artificial scarcity is "modeled after gold." Like BTCeanie BTCabies.

Seriously, spend some time studying--or at least play some vidya--instead of typing in the interwebs.

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: brg444 on December 27, 2014, 04:38:08 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 04:29:11 PM

*14% of all bitcoins in existence were "mined" this year.

How else do you propose we distribute a new form of monetary commodity you genius

The statement you quoted was a reply to "has any country become prosperous by printing money." I pointed out that Bitcoin has been doing nothing but printing money.
While countries back their printed money with their economies and missile-totin' jackbooted thugs, Bitcoin doesn't even have that.
In other words:

1. print money
2. hope some fools will use it
3. ? ? ?
4. PROFIT!

Hope this helps

KenJackson

full member

Activity: 127

Merit: 100

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 04:29:11 PM

Finally, what is the difference between printing money and printing (mining) Bitcoin?

If you're honestly equating mining bitcoin to printing fiat currency then you haven't been paying attention to what bitcoin is.

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 04:29:11 PM

How can printing* Bitcoin "create wealth"?

It doesn't. But it's modeled after mining gold, not printing fiat currency.

Producing gold from a mine doesn't create wealth any more than printing money does. But the difference is huge. You can't mine gold by fiat. A country can arbitrarily decide to print any amount of currency, but it's impossible to produce more gold than mines can produce. Mines require investment and years of effort and there's no guarantee they'll break even.

Mining bitcoin bears a much greater similarity to mining gold than to printing fiat currency.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 04:29:11 PM

*14% of all bitcoins in existence were "mined" this year.

How else do you propose we distribute a new form of monetary commodity you genius

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: KenJackson on December 27, 2014, 03:17:03 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 02:17:17 PM

Those aren't economists, bro. They're colloquially referred to as "Batshit Crazies."

They're crazy tho. The ones not trying to sell you shit, that is: their books, their politics, their coin, their YouTube vids, nothing--doing time for fraud, books/vids to pay fines for fraud--in that order.

Quote

There's a question that is sometimes asked that seems appropriate: "Has any country ever printed its way to prosperity?" The answer is no. Printing money doesn't create wealth; it just steals it from the poor.

It's a question that makes as much sense as "what color is 2." It's nonsensical, it's ill-formed.
If the question is "has any fiat-based country ever become more prosperous," the answer is fuck yeah!

Finally, what is the difference between printing money and printing (mining) Bitcoin? How can printing* Bitcoin "create wealth"? Stop listening to loons & learn basic economics, brah.

*14% of all bitcoins in existence were "mined" this year.

finnile

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 104

Quote from: rogerwilco on December 27, 2014, 03:10:11 PM

A devaluation of the dollar would mean the dollar price of BTC would go up, even if BTC simply maintained its original purchasing power.

But then, if the purchasing power of BTC remained constant through a dollar crisis, then people would see its value and begin buying it...

Its not necessary that people will buy bitcoin. I think the price of BTC would be also affected.
I am guessing, more money would flow into buying precious metals

KenJackson

full member

Activity: 127

Merit: 100

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 27, 2014, 02:17:17 PM

Those aren't economists, bro. They're colloquially referred to as "Batshit Crazies."

I know, I know. You're more intelligent and better informed than James Rickards, Ellen Brown, Bill Holter, Bix Weir, Martin Armstrong, Porter Stansberry and all the rest. But all the same, it's kind of arrogant to call them crazy.

There's a question that is sometimes asked that seems appropriate: "Has any country ever printed its way to prosperity?" The answer is no. Printing money doesn't create wealth; it just steals it from the poor.

rogerwilco

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: KenJackson on December 22, 2014, 11:12:59 PM

...
I've heard or read several economists explain why the collapse of the dollar is mathematically unavoidable. ...

>economists
>mathematically unavoidable

Those aren't economists, bro. They're colloquially referred to as "Batshit Crazies."

Argwai96

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Thug for life!

Quote from: KenJackson on December 22, 2014, 11:12:59 PM

Quote from: fenican on December 22, 2014, 07:03:08 PM

Betting on a dollar collapse, at this point, is exceptionally stupid.

I've heard or read several economists explain why the collapse of the dollar is mathematically unavoidable. The US is 18 trillion dollars in debt, and growing. If interest rates are raised, the interest payments will quickly swamp all tax proceeds. But low interest rates are having their own adverse affects.

I know people have been predicting that it will be "this year" for years. But the fact that it hasn't happened yet speaks to the skill of the manipulators. Still, it can't go on indefinitely. That is, the status quo is unsustainable.

Who is to say that the US government is not able to realize large budget surpluses prior to interest rates rising to more normalized levels? There is massive amounts of excess liquidity in the banking system and a lot of slack in the economy so it would not be unrealistic to expect that interest rates to remain low for a long time (in terms of years)

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Currently i don't see there is any direct tie between usd and btc. Unlike gold which tends to move in the opposite direction with the demise of dollar, btc has not reach that level yet. Btc acceptance rate is still considered low which should be the main reason.

TrailingComet

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

BTC will rise but perhaps not by as much as we originally believed

KenJackson

full member

Activity: 127

Merit: 100

Quote from: fenican on December 22, 2014, 07:03:08 PM

Betting on a dollar collapse, at this point, is exceptionally stupid.

malaimult

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

The answer is in your question. Since the USD/BTC exchange rate is based on both the value of dollars and of bitcoin, when one value declines then all else being the same, the other will appear to be stronger. In your scenario where the dollar looses it's value then one dollar will be able to buy less amounts of bitcoin.

Now how realistic your scenario to actually happen is an entirely different story

bornil267645

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

AltoCenter.com

I don't know what will happen to BTC, but I do hope it brings good for the Bitcoin economy.

findftp

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1008

Delusional crypto obsessionist

Quote from: fenican on December 22, 2014, 07:03:08 PM

Last time I checked FED balance sheet it expanded without pace.
Now they say they have stopped, but Japan is jumping in the same role.

I don't think it is stupid to bet on a collapse because sooner or later it will happen.
If it happens in 20 years, I'm very happy to have taken precautions already.
Later, I will watch this post and smile.

Heck, I might even edit the post and add another smiley! Wink

fenican

hero member

Activity: 1395

Merit: 505

Betting on a dollar collapse, at this point, is exceptionally stupid. It remained stable during the crises years from 2008-2013 and is now surging with the US economy. Low fuel prices only add fuel to that fire and obviously the Fed has stopped QE and may soon be selling bonds to push up interest rates. All bullish for USD.

Future rise in the value of BTC will have nothing to do with the demise of the dollar. It has EVERYTHING to do with the success and increasing popularity of Bitcoin as a complementary currency.

findftp

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1008

Delusional crypto obsessionist

All people want to get rid of their dollars once it collapses.
Anything you can buy with it is good enough, also bitcoin.
I think paper gold will collapse as well.
Nobody is stupid enough to trade gold for paper at a collapse.
Well, maybe one or two morons.