Topic: [POLL/VOTE] What should Avalon do with our past due orders? - page 3. (Read 4598 times)

wow.. i hope all groupbuys does it. SebastianJu?

Our group put in a refund ticket 6 days ago. No reply.

Such refund ticket, is for B2B clients such as SebastianJu, SteamBoat & Zefir. So far only SebastianJu seems to speak up.
I know the others are not sitting happily in their boats, but they should be the ones asking for our refund..

This was my first thought as well,but there's several problems with that.

1) I doubt that Avalon has an additional 100% of chips just lying around. Besides, they already had problems with customs as is
2) Double the chips will cut more into your ROI than half the price. Double the chips means also more hashrate getting online. We'd just fuck ourselves by doing that.
3) You still have to assemble the chips. Twice the chips => Twice the assembling cost and twice the time.

Agreed, but then better add 100% of the chips you ordered to the delivery? that way you will make back your money, and Avalon will only "make less margin" and not have to refund anyone..
For the board mounting services, it would be the same, if Gen2 chips come out in October, the boards will be the same from what i read? I mean only the chips will be faster, but using the same connection specs.

Ship the chips within 2 weeks (real time, not BFL time).

Refund 50% to make up for lost ROI.


This way miners get their chips and might still make ROI, the assemblers didn't risk their livelihood for nothing AND Avalon can save their face and still make a shitload of money (because I honestly don't want to think about the margin on those chips).

Does it really matter? If Avalon wants to stay in the business, to save face, i think they have to refund the orders past due 4 weeks?
What does your groupbuy clients say? Send them to the poll? With that, we will know what the B2C people thinks at least?
It seems like not many other group buy arrangers really speak up.. Which is sad, they represent a big amount of orders and "say"..

https://sites.google.com/site/boycotavalon/ <--- Add this to your signature so that we can start getting a grassroots movement and FORCE action from Avalon. Don't wait for the polls to close. Push them to accept refunds asap. Do not wait for more promises they have already broken the contract.

No one should be saying if we get a refund we will buy Avalon again.

Fuck that. He is in breach of contract. He has to compensate everyone who has chips and wants a refund. Until that happens we need to BOYCOTT his company full stop. No one is going to be getting chips on time. Even those who ordered in June and July as they should have already received their developer chips. This guy is looking at GEN2 already he doesn't really want to look at GEN1 anymore but you know what we need to hold his feet to the fire now on these. Boycotting Gen2 and 3 and 4 is the right solution given the lack of information from Avalon. It is time they are held to account.


30 days? WTF are you smoking? Seriously. They are already 37 days behind on some of the orders give them another 30? Fuck me. How about you just let then ship whenever they want? The deal was 9 - 10 weeks. If they failed to do that they are in breach of contract. We need refunds. Full stop. If we don't get refunds we boycott them as hard and vigorously as we can so that we will seriously disrupt the GEN2 chip sales and hurt them on the bottom line and we do that until we are all adequately compensated. Anything less and you are being suicidal.


http://support.avalon-asic.com/ <--- START A REFUND TICKET here.

Yes, if we B2C clients does not speak up, we will allow him to do whatever he feels like. He should take part of these losses, return the group buys to save his reputation in the forums and start selling when he has stock. I'm sure new groupbuys will pop up immediately if he has stock.. I might even buy again..

Refund is the only way to go, sorry Yifu but probably we should start to name you Josh 2.0.

Anyway, I hope you all understand that we'll never ever see a refund? He'll just ship the chips in a few months when they will be worth nothing more than a bunch of plastic and silicon in a nice QFN package...

Might be true if bitinstant is collecting the payments from one customer, in this case bitsyncom, in one address. Then it wouldnt be yifus address and he got paid out from another address.

Refunds it seems is not really an option (at least according to Yifu a little while ago)...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2563031

The endaddress seems to be untouched:

Batch 1: 1DPoUrzTjcG3nLvpLnSYmy37jPfYjZteFN was moved here: 1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU
Batch 2: 1ECoeDfK79CNm1Mzx6NMMkZrHVocwNg6Sp isnt moved (Yifu forgot he has it? Or bitpay didnt need it till now?)
Batch 3: 13RtKmTPtxFd76rk9CEmaL8uguBxRCF97k same as batch 1
Batch 4: 1EoouiwvV3nPYtrKVkBRJutydc2XSvYEwy same as batch 1
Batch 5: 1LZ9ZDp3LK9A7Ep24arqAMyKcEhFFsC6z1 same as batch 1

Ok, a refund would then be the best option. I'm curious, the address you sent the payments too? have they still not touched those coins at all? That would make their lives very easy suddenly, just return the coins into our wallets, and they can go on with their lives just as this did not happened. Announce a product in stock ,and sell out the stock (like production and selling should be)..

Yes of course it would be better than nothing.

My vote would be to explain the chip boxes (i added the link in my post above now) and where those chips went to, ship the chips fast or refund in full since in some weeks its too late to get the investment back with mining. (And who the heck wants to invests 100€, puts much work into it only to get 100€ out of it at the end?) The difficulty is rising from 62% to 75% per month already. Its possible next time it is 100% a month. See: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

I think yifu had plenty of time and experience to know how long it takes to get the chips. When i see the boxes my guess is that the chips already were created but someone bought them away. Yifu thought he could order new ones fast and now they are overdue...

I see your point. However, 30% more chips delivered, within 30 days, is 30% more than 0%.. It is at least some kind of help, to see that they do take some responsibility and try and fix the problem, and not play the blame game. (i changed it to 100% more chips)

And i am curious SebastianJu, you as a groupbuyer (and an active forum member), what would be your vote?

The difficulty is rising 75% each month at the moment. 30% more chips wont help in more than one way. 30% more chips does not cover the less mining income next month and these 30% are only the price for the chips. Those are not complete miners. That means you have to pay the assembly too on top. Without rebate.

And next gen? How will the GH priced compared to those chips now? Lets pretend the old chips come mid august. When the 2. gen chips are the half price per GH, but come 2 months later you will have an even worse trade than with the old chips. Because when your miner is ready the difficulty probably is 300-400% higher. Your half price means nothing then anymore. Plus, the price of the chips might half, but the assembly cost not.

So i think its either ship the chips fast or refund in full. I doesnt care when the chips cant be sold anymore, there were plenty of time to order, which obviously happened, there were many chips created already... they only didnt found the way to us. So i dont care if the chips cant be sold anymore.

Edit: The pictures i mean: "Pictures were shot between 2013-07-09 18:09:55 - 19:09:25 with a Samsung GT-I9008 and Canon EOS 350D, and modified with ACD Systems Digital Imaging from 2013-07-09 22:07:04 - 22:58:16." from http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1hzzmo/impressive_pictures_of_a_huge_avalon_chips_order/

http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3

Update: Avalon has decided to give groupbuyers and direct purchases a refund. Most of us asked for this to happend. If this poll was a success or not , I will let you decide. I am happy with the outcome of receiving a refund of the GroupBuys I participated in. I have locked the voting and the topic. Thanks for participating and good luck in future BTC ventures.
Dear Avalon,

Most of the group buys arranged on this forum very early are now past due delivery with more than 5 weeks. You said yourself, many times that you really dislike and do not want to do B2C distribution ever again (Avalon Miners Batch 1-3) mainly because of disrespectful and screaming clients.
You then decided to work only with B2B, while taking this route, you made promises and agreements with clients. Many of them where groupbuyers, these groupbuyers in turn, has direct clients like us: B2C. While you are not living up to your agreement with your B2B clients of 9-10 weeks delivery, this in turn puts you in an extreme bad light over all your potential future clients, US the B2C clients, trusting board developers and suppliers such as burnin and BKKcoins to do a better board mounting service than you did (and do not want to ever do again).
I read your post on the main page of your site, telling heartbreaking stories of personal life being infriged upon and that chips are held in customs. This might all be true, but then all we need to look at is your agreements with your B2B clients. You made a promise to deliver prepaid orders, which you did not do. Where in the world does your personal life, or the employees of your company make us risk takers in the sense of you not abiding by your agreements? You as a company need to take some risk in this, your clients shall not bear all the cost in this..
I only see a few options for you to recoup your trust in the market, the vote above will show you which one will be most appreciated by the forum, your B2C clients, who you never want to do business with again..

To anyone else on the forum, shall i change any of the votes? or am i missing something cruicial in my writing that i should change?

Edit1: I changed from 30% to 100% more chips on delivery.

Edit2: This is presumably the address which received all the orders:
https://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU?offset=0&filter=0
Contains more than 70.000 coins. Should be simple to refund.