Ponzi scheme and Bitcoin - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Hamphser

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Quote from: iamsange on December 31, 2019, 11:54:36 AM

Quote from: Bagaji on December 31, 2019, 07:16:39 AM

Quote from: Lee01 on December 26, 2019, 12:09:39 AM

Would the collapse of a Ponzi scheme effect the price of Bitcoin?
Though a hypothesis that the collapse of the Chinese Plustoken, a classic Ponzi scheme similar to bitconnect or countless others affected the price of Bitcoin, this seem to be accceptible although it's unlikely to be the major factor but distribution of stolen funds correlate very well with market downturns.

Definitely it will affect Bitcoin market price negatively most expecially if the Ponzi scheme are with the use of Bitcoin and crypto currency. You see for yourself when the numbers of ICO turned Scam people lost trust in them and stay away from investing in such business and that action by investors had negative effect on Bitcoin price and that crypto currency market in general.

Something bad that happenned in crypto not only have negative impact for market. Usually if there are a lot of bad things that happened, people will generalized what is bitcoin and think if bitcoin is only ponzi scheme. And make the others afraid even to know it or maybe make investment in it. And negative impact because of that is worse.

Someone must have shared some misinformation to the public if that's what they've been thinking about of bitcoin. At some point ponzi scheme and scams might have affected the bitcoin price. But i think it's not that too strong to make the bitcoin market suffer for the wrong information that's been shared by the others.

iamsange

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Quote from: Bagaji on December 31, 2019, 07:16:39 AM

Quote from: Lee01 on December 26, 2019, 12:09:39 AM

Would the collapse of a Ponzi scheme effect the price of Bitcoin?
Though a hypothesis that the collapse of the Chinese Plustoken, a classic Ponzi scheme similar to bitconnect or countless others affected the price of Bitcoin, this seem to be accceptible although it's unlikely to be the major factor but distribution of stolen funds correlate very well with market downturns.

Definitely it will affect Bitcoin market price negatively most expecially if the Ponzi scheme are with the use of Bitcoin and crypto currency. You see for yourself when the numbers of ICO turned Scam people lost trust in them and stay away from investing in such business and that action by investors had negative effect on Bitcoin price and that crypto currency market in general.

Something bad that happenned in crypto not only have negative impact for market. Usually if there are a lot of bad things that happened, people will generalized what is bitcoin and think if bitcoin is only ponzi scheme. And make the others afraid even to know it or maybe make investment in it. And negative impact because of that is worse.

Bagaji

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Quote from: Lee01 on December 26, 2019, 12:09:39 AM

Would the collapse of a Ponzi scheme effect the price of Bitcoin?
Though a hypothesis that the collapse of the Chinese Plustoken, a classic Ponzi scheme similar to bitconnect or countless others affected the price of Bitcoin, this seem to be accceptible although it's unlikely to be the major factor but distribution of stolen funds correlate very well with market downturns.

Definitely it will affect Bitcoin market price negatively most expecially if the Ponzi scheme are with the use of Bitcoin and crypto currency. You see for yourself when the numbers of ICO turned Scam people lost trust in them and stay away from investing in such business and that action by investors had negative effect on Bitcoin price and that crypto currency market in general.

error08

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Quote from: pooya87 on December 26, 2019, 12:44:33 AM

scams always collapse and so far we have had many scams some big and some small and they have all collapsed and none of them have ever had any effects on bitcoin price other than some small newbie panics and sells. because even though some of these scams may be big but they are not big enough in comparison to the bitcoin market size. not to mention that these scammers unload their stolen coins away from exchanges to avoid being tracked.

Read the news about it, Plus token creators estimated to hold over 200,000 btc and regularly dumped it to the market since August when the price of bitcoin above $10K.
They run away with over $3 Billion dollars in cryptocurrencies, specifically bitcoin, ethereum, and EOS.
Oh yes, to avoid being tracked, they use the mixer service before sent it to exchanges.

Analysts have now uncovered that these scammers are still dumping their cryptocurrency holdings on the market. According to Ergo (@ErgoBTC), the amount of Bitcoin the group holds may even be over 200,000 BTC. Assuming all the known mixed BTC has been sold off from early August, that brings the average at around 1,300 BTC sold per day.

Given that around 1,800 BTC is mined per day, that’s around 72 percent of daily mining rewards being sold off by PLUS daily.

source

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: adaseb on December 31, 2019, 02:39:56 AM

Its no different than the Bitconnect ponzi that popped back in Q1 2018. Its actually what started the bear market, people heard about the Ponzi and assumed the all crypto is a ponzi and people stopped investing or they pulled their money out.

isn't it the other way around?

the bitcoin/altcoin bubbles popped, which killed demand for BCC and caused bitconnect investors to pull their money out. that caused bitconnect to collapse under its own weight.

adaseb

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We already know that the Plustoken scam ponzi is what caused the price of BTC to decline. They did analysis of the large movement of coins from those ponzi wallet owners and they determined that BTC usually declined in a similar time span.

Its no different than the Bitconnect ponzi that popped back in Q1 2018. Its actually what started the bear market, people heard about the Ponzi and assumed the all crypto is a ponzi and people stopped investing or they pulled their money out.

The plustoken ponzi was generally only Chinese oriented and they basically had people on the street trying to get people to invest. These were retail people who never heard of bitcoin. And they actually had to make an account at an exchange, buy BTC with their money and then buy the Plustoken. So its one speculation that we went from $3100 to $14000 due to the Plustoken retail demand buying BTC.

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Quote from: exstasie on December 30, 2019, 04:59:30 PM

...

I expected that you would come up with something along these lines

Not you personally of course but you as anyone supporting your point collectively. That's why I said beforehand that it depends on your point of view. But there's even more to my point than you probably think (read, it is more substantiated than it appears at first glance). You say that under my definition, gold and fine art could be considered Ponzi schemes as well. But this is a wrong assumption, and here's the distinction which allows to clearly and reliably separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak

Both gold and fine arts have wide uses outside speculation. Put differently, it is far from the pristine "buy low, sell high" paradigm. More than 50% of gold is used as jewelry which has little to do with speculation. Jewelry is not bought with the goal of selling it later, so in this way it is a type of final goods. The same with fine arts. Collectors are looking into their art value, while their speculative value only coming from this worth. This is not the case with Bitcoin which is thoroughly speculative and mostly used with that paradigm in mind (read, speculation)

DevilSlayer

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Quote from: Blitzboy on December 31, 2019, 01:37:32 AM

Quote from: Johnyz on December 30, 2019, 05:13:24 AM

Ponzi scheme can’t be stop, there will be more like this but on a different system. Bitcoin should not be affected by this one, bitcoin should continue to grow despite on those scammers, and investors should focus on the best system which is bitcoin, ponzi scheme will never succeed if people are well educated, this is the main problem.

The problem is not like that, the original development of Ponzi was due to a lack of user understanding of some currencies, it became a form of fraud through profitability that would attract many investors without knowing this model. But recently, people have become more aware, but Ponzi still exists in many forms. The specific cause is the participants themselves, they take the risk and take part in it the way they gamble. Profits can come with first people or no one. A game of chance

The image of the bitcoin got tarnished because of the scammers who are using it for ponzi scheme. There are now many victims of this kind of shit investment. Government in my country always reminding the citizens in order to avoid this kind of scam investment. We can avoid fraud investment like ponzi scheme if we have knowledge about what we are doing. Newbies should not believe to the bitcoin investments that offering high returns in short period of time.

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Quote from: Johnyz on December 30, 2019, 05:13:24 AM

Ponzi scheme can’t be stop, there will be more like this but on a different system. Bitcoin should not be affected by this one, bitcoin should continue to grow despite on those scammers, and investors should focus on the best system which is bitcoin, ponzi scheme will never succeed if people are well educated, this is the main problem.

The problem is not like that, the original development of Ponzi was due to a lack of user understanding of some currencies, it became a form of fraud through profitability that would attract many investors without knowing this model. But recently, people have become more aware, but Ponzi still exists in many forms. The specific cause is the participants themselves, they take the risk and take part in it the way they gamble. Profits can come with first people or no one. A game of chance

exstasie

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Quote from: deisik on December 30, 2019, 04:36:13 AM

Quote from: exstasie on December 30, 2019, 03:58:50 AM

Quote from: realr0ach on December 29, 2019, 02:21:37 AM

Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme.

Its value may be determined according to the greater fool theory but it's definitely not a Ponzi scheme

Well, that actually depends on your point of view

If we assume that the defining criterion of a Ponzi scheme is paying profits to earlier investors with the funds obtained from more recent investors (as per Wikipedia, no plagiarism intended), Bitcoin fits this definition pretty well, at least as far as its speculative part is concerned (which is the best part of it anyway).

A Ponzi scheme is an actual investment scheme. It promises returns on investment (which Bitcoin does not) and requires that the operator collect investments and dispense profits.

You're basically just describing the activity of speculation. Under your definition, gold and fine art seem like they would be Ponzi schemes too.

Quote from: deisik on December 30, 2019, 04:36:13 AM

You can only earn dough by buying coins at a lower price and then dumping them on someone else at a higher price

That's literally what the greater fool theory means, and it applies to all assets, not just BTC. Ponzi schemes are much more specific.

seoincorporation

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I don't think a Ponzi scheme can grow that big, to the point of crash the market. I mean to take down bitcoin or send it up you need a really big amount of money. If the get that money for sure they can withdraw it all and send the price down, but as i say, is hard for a ponzy to get that amounts.

justdimin

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Ponzi and bitcoin has ALWAYS been hand in hand, there is no worry about ponzi somehow destroying bitcoin because we have seen ponzi schemes as early as 2013 if I am not wrong, definitely could be one beforehand as well but the earliest I remember was 2013.

The biggest back in the day I remember was a cloud mining company, I zenhash or something if I am not wrong because those guys sold hashes to people and people bought it and it was super profitable for everyone involved and in the end it turned out they were just paying from the money they were getting and eventually they had to stop since they couldn't sustain it (no ponzi can). So in 2020, we will see a lot of ponzi, we will see a lot of bad people stealing bitcoins and selling them, none of that will affect the prize at all.

Johnyz

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Quote from: Lee01 on December 26, 2019, 12:09:39 AM

Would the collapse of a Ponzi scheme effect the price of Bitcoin?
Though a hypothesis that the collapse of the Chinese Plustoken, a classic Ponzi scheme similar to bitconnect or countless others affected the price of Bitcoin, this seem to be accceptible although it's unlikely to be the major factor but distribution of stolen funds correlate very well with market downturns.

Ponzi scheme can’t be stop, there will be more like this but on a different system. Bitcoin should not be affected by this one, bitcoin should continue to grow despite on those scammers, and investors should focus on the best system which is bitcoin, ponzi scheme will never succeed if people are well educated, this is the main problem.

deisik

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Quote from: exstasie on December 30, 2019, 03:58:50 AM

Quote from: realr0ach on December 29, 2019, 02:21:37 AM

Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme.

Its value may be determined according to the greater fool theory but it's definitely not a Ponzi scheme

Well, that actually depends on your point of view

If we assume that the defining criterion of a Ponzi scheme is paying profits to earlier investors with the funds obtained from more recent investors (as per Wikipedia, no plagiarism intended), Bitcoin fits this definition pretty well, at least as far as its speculative part is concerned (which is the best part of it anyway). You can only earn dough by buying coins at a lower price and then dumping them on someone else at a higher price

Blitzboy

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Quote from: exstasie on December 30, 2019, 03:58:50 AM

Who cares what some ancient dead guy thought? In this day and age, we apparently value digital commodities too.

Humans have always evolved both in thought and in life. We should respect what is left behind, not indifferent, inherited and promoted. But in this case, clearly it is an outdated thought, in an era where all transactions are possible on the internet, it doesn't have to be a physical supply of goods, but, in my opinion, it has to show the same power as physical goods to survive.

exstasie

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Quote from: realr0ach on December 29, 2019, 02:21:37 AM

Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme.

Its value may be determined according to the greater fool theory but it's definitely not a Ponzi scheme. Roll Eyes

Quote from: realr0ach on December 29, 2019, 02:21:37 AM

As per the Aristotle definition, money is required to be a physical commodity rescource.

Who cares what some ancient dead guy thought? In this day and age, we apparently value digital commodities too.

hendra147

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In some ways ponzi scheme or scam have effect in crypto market but not that high because newbie only fall for that so that's few compare to many veterans here know to avoid that then actually we have really safe place here like use hardwallet to store your asset,Moreover always do invest after you study it very well like if you can really trust that with your money

everyone is newbie in first time learning anything. no body born in a pro state Grin

bitcoin rising price is the reason way more people fall in ponzi scheme, they see bitcoin rising price from $10 to $19.000, then they want profit lie it too.

jhonjhon

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Quote from: Lee01 on December 26, 2019, 12:09:39 AM

Would the collapse of a Ponzi scheme effect the price of Bitcoin?
Though a hypothesis that the collapse of the Chinese Plustoken, a classic Ponzi scheme similar to bitconnect or countless others affected the price of Bitcoin, this seem to be accceptible although it's unlikely to be the major factor but distribution of stolen funds correlate very well with market downturns.

Scams are everywhere, I see scams that collapsed multiple times already but I don’t see any effects on bitcoin. Well, I guess it will put bitcoin on the lighter note which may results to more investors but I don’t see much of an effect on it. Bitcoin price moves unpredictably with no specific clue what made it move like it was and scams collapsing it may give a positive impact on bitcoin.

ethereumhunter

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Ponzi will always be there, searching for people who don't want to search for knowledge or information. They will get trap in the Ponzi scheme without they realize if that is true or not. We will see a new type of Ponzi because the Ponzi scheme will always change following the trend, and the Ponzi scheme will try to get as many people as it can to get their money. So you need to be careful and always search for the news from the other source.

hendra147

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anyone remember the biggest scam in crypto?
zenhash cloudmining, ? XPY.

they are legal company, have "real miner hardware" and selling it in global market, but right now is scam.
i think anything in bitcoin ecosystem can turned into scam even bitcoin its self.

after all bitcoin get mined, i dont think bitcoin can survive, because the cost to running will be amazing, and the transaction will be slowly.

Topic: Ponzi scheme and Bitcoin - page 3. (Read 1467 times)