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Topic: Ponzi.wtf, a self admitted ponzi scheme. (Read 452 times)

legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1737
"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."
January 03, 2020, 05:49:32 AM
#26
If the following is true, I don't think this is really a ponzi scheme "scam" as the owner can't just run off with the balance.  From the website:
Quote
snip


I guess this is off topic a bit, but what if they had a provably fair system that determined when the ponzi would collapse, each investment was x% less likely to trigger the collapse and the owner always profited x% of total investments.
Would it still be a ponzi scheme?  It sounds kind of fun.

You use the "if" word twice there in important contexts.
The idea of "Ponzi Games" is not new, it's always been a half hearted (false) defense by the HYIP industry that everybody knew what these schemes were about and that there were no deceived victims, only winners and losers.
It was a lie of course, admin could pack the pyramid and rig the payouts in their own favor. They were not 'provably fair'.
The advent of smart contracts may have changed that and, if the player is competent enough to "audit the code" and make an informed decision, it could be argued that there is no deception and that it is just a form of provably fair gambling.
With no deception involved, i.e. no imaginary forex, arbitrage, mining, etc. context, then they can be called "Ponzi Games" as opposed to "Ponzi Schemes."
Sounds pretty dull to me, but whatever floats your boat.

legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 2015
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January 02, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
#25
If the following is true, I don't think this is really a ponzi scheme "scam" as the owner can't just run off with the balance.  From the website:
Quote
Am I going to make money?

If you are early enough you can profit. But most people will be late and lose. Nobody knows how many people will eventually buy in. This contract will live as long as the Ethereum blockchain is running.

What is my position in the Ponzi?

Your position is determined by what percentage of the total Ponzi tokens you hold. These positions can change over time as people purchase or sell tokens.

How do I know this is real?

The smart contract is fixed and immutable on the Ethereum blockchain. Anybody can audit the code and confirm the behavior. See the links in the helpful links section for source code and contract details


I guess this is off topic a bit, but what if they had a provably fair system that determined when the ponzi would collapse, each investment was x% less likely to trigger the collapse and the owner always profited x% of total investments.

Would it still be a ponzi scheme?  It sounds kind of fun.





legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1713
Top Crypto Casino
January 02, 2020, 10:09:24 PM
#24
I just checked the website, it is still up and running.

A self-proclaimed ponzi scheme openly claiming itself to be nothing more/less than a ponzi scheme... now I have seen it all  Shocked
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
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December 25, 2019, 10:14:15 PM
#23
It is a contract on the ETH blockchain.. If the code is legit then an exit scam should be impossible..

Contracts are written by humans, and not by aliens.

And how exactly do you know that this  ponzi code is 'legit' when it is not audited??
Or maybe you audited it with some special mind-tech and  I would like to learn this also

Twisted stuff  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1713
Top Crypto Casino
December 24, 2019, 07:10:32 PM
#22
Website: https://www.ponzi.wtf
Archived: http://archive.is/j3hou
Thread link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ponziwtf-the-safest-ponzi-scheme-on-the-internet-5209903
Archived: http://archive.is/O4vFT
What happened: Self admitted ponzi scammer
.

Nothing special to say about that website since website itself describe as a ponzi scheme. Just saty away....

 


User who promoting this scam, he is likely scammer. See his post history and below quote,
I  have 52 BTC and 103K USDT

my telegram : @yellBTCnow


Here is red flag: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=1070


When I read that post I was caught between feeling surprised at the honesty of the scheme operator and laughing.

At least on the website he is stating "Pump it! Others must buy in after you for you to profit"
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 2174
Need PR/CMC & CG? TG @The_Cryptovator
December 24, 2019, 11:47:43 AM
#21
Lets see you go flag Yobit then..
There is already flag, not necessary to create new, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=59
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2262
BTC or BUST
December 24, 2019, 09:41:06 AM
#20
I am quite confused exactly what @eddie13 want to mean. Everyone know what is ponzi scheme, I will present full quote,

A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒnzi/, Italian: [ˈpontsi]; also a Ponzi game)[1] is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.[2] The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from product sales or other means, and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds.  
From first part they are ponzi scheme as they already mentioned on their website. They will diverts fund from late buyers to earlier buyers, so no doubts about that they are ponzi scheme.

If you wondering about second part that they didn't lead investors that profits will come from some other source. But does it change the fact? Fact is pretty clear, still they are ponzi scheme and self admitted. So why you think that is not ponzi scheme even they mentioned it? It will run until new investors come, we have seen that all ponzi scheme eventually turn into scam. So I don't think it will different from it.

Anyway since I believe there is risk for investors and that's why I have tagged them and create red flag. If anyone disagree with me then feel free to oppose flag and counter red tag. I don't think we should make arguments between us.


Lets see you go flag Yobit then..

I think some just see the word "ponzi" and freak out, while not understanding the nuance..

It is a contract on the ETH blockchain.. If the code is legit then an exit scam should be impossible..

I don't care enough about this to go on discussing it much further and repeat myself, not much more to say other than I must not be completely crazy because if you look up I'm not the only one that saw the nuance of this situation I mention, and that's good enough for me..
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1737
"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."
December 24, 2019, 04:46:30 AM
#19

I don't think we should make arguments between us.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy discussion.

My personal approach is that "fraud" or "material misrepresentation" is an essential part of any "scam".
Using the word "ponzi" to attract players/investors, call them what you will, into an unsustainable scheme that pays out early members at the expense of later ones, is not a "scam" in itself. IMO.
Regarding the similarities with MLM and pyramid schemes, there's a lifetime's work in exposing much clearer and more dangerous frauds in those areas, if one has a mind to do so.
 
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 2174
Need PR/CMC & CG? TG @The_Cryptovator
December 24, 2019, 01:31:45 AM
#18
I am quite confused exactly what @eddie13 want to mean. Everyone know what is ponzi scheme, I will present full quote,

A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒnzi/, Italian: [ˈpontsi]; also a Ponzi game)[1] is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.[2] The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from product sales or other means, and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds.  
From first part they are ponzi scheme as they already mentioned on their website. They will diverts fund from late buyers to earlier buyers, so no doubts about that they are ponzi scheme.

If you wondering about second part that they didn't lead investors that profits will come from some other source. But does it change the fact? Fact is pretty clear, still they are ponzi scheme and self admitted. So why you think that is not ponzi scheme even they mentioned it? It will run until new investors come, we have seen that all ponzi scheme eventually turn into scam. So I don't think it will different from it.

Anyway since I believe there is risk for investors and that's why I have tagged them and create red flag. If anyone disagree with me then feel free to oppose flag and counter red tag. I don't think we should make arguments between us.
hero member
Activity: 1806
Merit: 671
December 23, 2019, 03:07:33 PM
#17

The sad thing about this is even if the scam is self-admitted they still manage to have almost a thousand members in their Telegram channel which only means that they are also openly aware on participating on the fraud and is also trying to scam one another. That's the sad thing about ponzi schemes and HYIP sites some members who are in there are also trying to scam other people and they are trying to recruit more just for the commission they will have from them and of course for the longevity of the scam. This is just a pure evidence that some people even if they aren't part of developing the scam are also scamming other people just for the money they will earn from them.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 3098
December 23, 2019, 09:17:29 AM
#16
''Multi-level Marketing (MLM) is a marketing strategy designed to promote their product by through distributors, offering multiple levels of compensation.''

''Pyramid schemes are, however, fraudulent schemes, disguising as an MLM strategy. The difference between a pyramid scheme and a lawful MLM program is that there is no real product that is sold in a pyramid scheme, and commissions are based only on the number of new individuals one introduces into the scheme.''


''With Ponzi schemes, investors give money to a portfolio manager. Then, when they want their money back, they are paid out with the incoming funds contributed by later investors.''

''With a pyramid scheme, the initial schemer recruits other investors who in turn recruit other investors and so on. Late-joining investors pay the person who recruited them for the right to participate or perhaps sell a certain product.''

sources:
https://www.diffen.com/difference/MLM_vs_Pyramid_Scheme
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/ponzi-vs-pyramid.asp

Same things for all these schemes are, they asking from user to invest money with promising of a big return. it is possible that in the beginning and some people get profit from there, but most people remain without money. it is always a promised longer waiting for a period means a higher percentage of profit.
everything else is just performance, referral program, real or no real product... in the end, it boils down to the same. Scam.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
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December 18, 2019, 05:10:58 AM
#15
''Multi-level Marketing (MLM) is a marketing strategy designed to promote their product by through distributors, offering multiple levels of compensation.''

''Pyramid schemes are, however, fraudulent schemes, disguising as an MLM strategy. The difference between a pyramid scheme and a lawful MLM program is that there is no real product that is sold in a pyramid scheme, and commissions are based only on the number of new individuals one introduces into the scheme.''


''With Ponzi schemes, investors give money to a portfolio manager. Then, when they want their money back, they are paid out with the incoming funds contributed by later investors.''

''With a pyramid scheme, the initial schemer recruits other investors who in turn recruit other investors and so on. Late-joining investors pay the person who recruited them for the right to participate or perhaps sell a certain product.''

sources:
https://www.diffen.com/difference/MLM_vs_Pyramid_Scheme
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/ponzi-vs-pyramid.asp
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
December 17, 2019, 11:17:46 PM
#14

It says on the front page Convince others to buy in so you can profit

All ponzis are MLM, unless they don't have a referral system.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
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December 17, 2019, 09:14:16 PM
#13
This is not a product sale, so you can not apply that logic here.
Definition Sentence I quoted does apply, but then you added some other random sentence you like and prefer more.
If you want to promote or justify that Ponzi you can do it in their ANN topic, I don't mind at all.

A fraud even if the truth is honestly told eh? Including reviewable code run on a decently trusted blockchain
So you reviewed and audited their shady smart contract and found no bugs and issues, and you guarantee for them??  Roll Eyes

But their is no peter to be robbed, only voluntary players..
All voluntary 'players' are Peter.

No products here so not MLM, no pyramid of recruiters so no pyramid scheme, no deception or fraud so not really even a "ponzi"..
If there is no Ponzi here (like you say) than they are a FRAUD because they lie that they are a Ponzi.... and you say they are not.
So they are a FRAUD (with your logic).
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2262
BTC or BUST
December 17, 2019, 09:01:17 PM
#12
a ponzi is a MLM schem
False..

"Ponzi schemes are based on fraudulent investment management services—basically, investors contribute money to the "portfolio manager" who promises them a high return, and then when those investors want their money back, they are paid out with the incoming funds contributed by later investors. The person organizing this type of fraud is in charge of controlling the entire operation"

"A pyramid scheme, on the other hand, is structured so that the initial schemer must recruit other investors who will continue to recruit other investors"

"a pyramid scheme differs from a multi-level marketing campaign, which offers legitimate products."
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/ponzi-vs-pyramid.asp

No products here so not MLM, no pyramid of recruiters so no pyramid scheme, no deception or fraud so not really even a "ponzi"..

I'm not sure if this can even be called a "ponzi" in the absence of any fraud..
Ponzi-like game?

All you need to find is one referral link that does not state it is a ponzi, and your argument is void.  :/
What is he going to do? Create a ref link to a fake website that doesn't say it's a ponzi?
Then the deceiver is the scammer..
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
December 17, 2019, 08:40:20 PM
#11
How exactly is a ponzi a scam if they state right upfront that they are a ponzi?

Because a ponzi is a MLM scheme, and even if level 0 (the ponzi owners) claim it is a ponzi, you cannot guarantee or expect all downlevels to pass on that information.

All you need to find is one referral link that does not state it is a ponzi, and your argument is void.  :/
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2262
BTC or BUST
December 17, 2019, 08:39:15 PM
#10
This is not a product sale, so you can not apply that logic here.
Exactly, so your wiki article does not apply..
Can you apply any logic here other than just asserting your statements are true?

Ponzi Scheme is a Ponzi Scheme and a FRAUD even if you tell the truth about it.
A fraud even if the truth is honestly told eh? Including reviewable code run on a decently trusted blockchain?

"The basic premise of a Ponzi scheme is "to rob Peter to pay Paul".
But their is no peter to be robbed, only voluntary players..

I'm looking for a good logical reason that this is a scam or fraud..
Logic is the fun of it..
legendary
Activity: 2212
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December 17, 2019, 08:15:05 PM
#9
Further quote from same link..
"The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from product sales or other means (it does not), and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds. (not in this case)"
Which does not apply here..

So what is a non-fraudulent ponzi?
Can it technically still even be a "ponzi" if it isn't fraudulent?
Do you see any fraud here?

This is not a product sale, so you can not apply that logic here.

Ponzi Scheme is a Ponzi Scheme and a FRAUD even if you tell the truth about it.

Yes, I still see a Fraud here, and everyone else who looks at their ANN topic (except you)

"The basic premise of a Ponzi scheme is "to rob Peter to pay Paul".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
December 17, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
#8
Without considering anything else other than his website, when he advertised it and makes it clear that it is a ponzi (deposit and get paid from other deposits) it is really a scam? Depending on how you see it, this could be basically a “gambling website”. You are gambling your money by expecting other people to do the same. Someone will lose (the last users), but so do people on most casinos.

A website claiming to do some generic stuff (mining, investing, etc) and using that to deceive their users to invest, only to get paid by future deposits - that I would call a scam. But a “ponzi based” gambling website? I’m not sure. It’s a gray area IMO.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1308
Get your game girl
December 17, 2019, 07:51:00 PM
#7
This is actually good that they're being honest about the operations unlike tokens claiming to be all legit by showing shitty whitepapers and are covered with underlying ponzis.

scammers are now getting bold! shoving their scheme right in front of your face. at least you know what youre getting into if in case you still think of joining the pack!
Imagine how stupid one has to be to still fall for it? Scams are by no means one-way traffic. There has to be an uninformed victim associated with it.
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