Topic: Pope on Charlie Hebdo: There are limits to free expression - page 4. (Read 2773 times)

I must say that your tolerance of my "being a jerk" was pretty good (although you couldn't help yourself in calling me a *jerk* which is in itself a *tell* that I did actually upset you).

So your peace preaching is not really backed up by your post content which is actually attacking me.

I don't disagree with your assessment that being a jerk causes more problems than not being a jerk, but given the freedom to be a jerk, some people are going to be a jerk. I take the line that it'd be great if everyone acted with kindness and empathy towards everyone else, but some people are just awful people, and it's their right to be awful so as long as they don't physically harm another person or their property.

Of course it would make little sense to me that even hateful comments should be "illegal" - the simple point is that I can just say "you are a fucking cunt" and if seemingly I have some sort of "voice" (perhaps due to being a Legendary Member) then now we have a problem which if I didn't say such a thing wouldn't be the case would it.

Of course to make it a bit more hurtful I should do it like this:

You are a fucking cunt!

The freedom of speech thing is a black and white issue. Either you have it, or you don't. If you don't, then you have all the gray area over what is acceptable to say and what isn't. But the people on the freedom of speech side, from my perspective, are not trying to start wars. Perhaps, if you were to take the worst view of them, they are intentionally trying to insult, rather than just doubling down on their freedom of expression in the face of those who would silence them with violence. But even if this were true- that they were intentionally trying to insult- I've yet to see a compelling argument for making insulting speech illegal.

I'm with the Pope they built a tinder
They were given a warning then sparked a flame in their own ignorance
Would not say it serves them right but they did have it coming.

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Others, though, have noted that in virtually all societies, freedom of speech has its limits, from laws against Holocaust denial to racially motivated hate speech.

But he said there was a limit to free speech when it concerned offending someone's religious beliefs.

"There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others," he said. "They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit."

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You either support freedom of expression or don't, as far as I'm concerned there is no middle ground, I don't think they should have arrested that 'comedian' either ( note my sarcastic finger quotes ) because if they're going to do that then why don't they go and arrest the Christians that go around ranting about homosexuals all the time or attack scientists just for writing about scientific evidence?

I was wondering whether this new pope everybody liked was too good to be true, even Jon Stewart was making this point about france having a rally about freedom of expression and speech then suddenly deciding it was okay to arrest the guy for making a comment on facebook.

I'm not the kind of person who likes to arrest stupid people, I prefer to give them a megaphone so everyone knows just how stupid they are 

Personally I think it is odd that people think that it is "so important that we should (or should not) be allowed to insult each other" to the point that they think we should start wars over it.

Can't any of these people do something more productive with their lives?

(I am an atheist but I have no interest in either trying to force my view upon others nor ridicule their beliefs)

A "bumper sticker" I saw in some American movie I can't recall the name of right now comes to mind: "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out". This seems to unfortunately be the way things are becoming with the more radical extremes that we are seeing.

It seems that we need a huge "chill pill" to make people remember that humans are actually a "single species".

Some freedom of expression are freer for some, not much for Dieudo!!!!!!

Vive la France.

At least the church is being consistent?

Also, it seems the "freedom of expression" France has become such a big fan of recently has limitations as well: French comedian to be tried after Charlie Hebdo gag

Freedom of expression! (...as long as it's approved of expression.)

"If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."

Many people around the world have defended the right of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo to publish inflammatory cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed in the wake of the massacre by Islamic extremists at its Paris offices and subsequent attack on a kosher supermarket in which three gunmen killed 17 people.

But recently the Vatican and four prominent French imams issued a joint declaration that denounced the attacks but also urged the media to treat religions with respect.

Francis, who has urged Muslim leaders in particular to speak out against Islamic extremism, went a step further when asked by a French journalist about whether there were limits when freedom of expression meets freedom of religion.

Francis insisted that it was an "aberration" to kill in the name of God and said religion can never be used to justify violence.

But he said there was a limit to free speech when it concerned offending someone's religious beliefs.

"There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others," he said. "They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit."

In the wake of the Paris attacks, the Vatican has sought to downplay reports that it is a potential target for Islamic extremists, saying it is being vigilant but has received no specific threat.

Francis said he was concerned primarily for the faithful, and said he had spoken to Vatican security officials who are taking "prudent and secure measures."

"I am worried, but you know I have a defect: a good dose of carelessness. I'm careless about these things," he said. But he admitted that in his prayers, he had asked that if something were to happen to him that "it doesn't hurt, because I'm not very courageous when it comes to pain. I'm very timid."

He added, "I'm in God's hands."


http://news.yahoo.com/pope-charlie-hebdo-limits-free-expression-121639260.html


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