Portugal will be "hodling friendly" | Bitcointalksearch.org

Cryptock

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Quote from: SirLancelot on October 13, 2022, 02:40:23 PM

Quote from: coolcoinz on October 10, 2022, 05:53:04 PM

Great news!

Quote from: Cryptock on October 10, 2022, 04:54:17 PM

Oh Gosh - 28% tax

It's not much since you can hold for a year and get 0%, pretty much like in Germany. I find this to be a fair tax, as many countries have close to 20% income tax that you pay regardless of whether you're a holder or a trader.

What would you rather have? 28% if you sell in less than a year, or 20% flat tax without exceptions?

That is if you are patient enough to hold your cryptos for a year but there must be obstacles that can come in your way like if your personal funds have run out unexpectedly and you badly need more funds, or if the price have pumped up. I think you will still decide to sell your cryptos but if I were to choose I think I will go for this tax rule because I am sure that I will never sell my cryptos no matter what.

I am more into longer terms anyway and have some experience in the past in terms of hodling a coin. I agree with you that this is a good news more than a bad one because this will be forced others to hodl their crypto and we know what are the effects of it. Yes, it helps the price grow stably.

we dont buy coin to keep them forever - they are to replaced with the new one - money has to be be kept moving in order to get return out of it

SirLancelot

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Quote from: coolcoinz on October 10, 2022, 05:53:04 PM

Great news!

Quote from: Cryptock on October 10, 2022, 04:54:17 PM

Oh Gosh - 28% tax

It's not much since you can hold for a year and get 0%, pretty much like in Germany. I find this to be a fair tax, as many countries have close to 20% income tax that you pay regardless of whether you're a holder or a trader.

What would you rather have? 28% if you sell in less than a year, or 20% flat tax without exceptions?

That is if you are patient enough to hold your cryptos for a year but there must be obstacles that can come in your way like if your personal funds have run out unexpectedly and you badly need more funds, or if the price have pumped up. I think you will still decide to sell your cryptos but if I were to choose I think I will go for this tax rule because I am sure that I will never sell my cryptos no matter what.

I am more into longer terms anyway and have some experience in the past in terms of hodling a coin. I agree with you that this is a good news more than a bad one because this will be forced others to hodl their crypto and we know what are the effects of it. Yes, it helps the price grow stably.

joker_josue

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Quote from: kryptqnick on October 12, 2022, 11:53:05 AM

28% is a hefty tax, but the tax-free holding for a year or more is surprisingly great to balance it out. It's as if the policy is built to encourage long-term holding, actually. This is currently just a proposal, right? So it might not pass and might not become a part of the legislation. I also feel like perhaps this long-term zero-tax rule can come to getting abused (someone buys Bitcoin with money that wasn't taxed and just waits for a year to not have to ever pay taxes on it), I hope they thought it through.

The amount of 28% is equal to the tax on stock exchange gains. In other words, for the Portuguese government it is almost in the same category as investment assets. The advantage is that coins older than 1 year no longer pay this tax.

It really is still a proposal, but it will be approved for sure, since the government has an absolute majority. What could happen is that it still undergoes some changes, but I don't think it will happen.

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28% is a hefty tax, but the tax-free holding for a year or more is surprisingly great to balance it out. It's as if the policy is built to encourage long-term holding, actually. This is currently just a proposal, right? So it might not pass and might not become a part of the legislation. I also feel like perhaps this long-term zero-tax rule can come to getting abused (someone buys Bitcoin with money that wasn't taxed and just waits for a year to not have to ever pay taxes on it), I hope they thought it through.

Leviathan.007

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I'm still not sure about it but I guess Portugal is one of the first countries where they started to milk money from the bitcoin and cryptocurrency holders and traders, this huge amount of tax for the people who are aiming for the short term cannot be a good idea because they will have to change their plan to pay huge amount of tax to their governments, I guess the people in Portugal will start thinking about hold and aim for the long term instead of selling their assets less than one year after they buy, regardless of that I think the garments should be one involved in their desition to sell or hold.

Flexystar

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Dam man these are countries which are dreamy and they are letting their nationals to get visa so that they can earn happily out there. Definitely this is interestingly playful because this can motivate nationals to earn more and more money with crypto currencies.

This tax is nothing compared to what others are implementing. For example, many countries are not evening bothering to restrict the use of crypto currencies and thus people are left out of the options and can’t even use it. So it’s far better they are giving some options. <3

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Quote from: Rikafip on October 11, 2022, 10:44:22 AM

Overall, not a bad deal for Portuguese crypto hodlers, but I think my country is even more hodling friendly as at the moment we pay only 10% tax (+surtax) and we don't have to pay tax at all if we hodl for two years.

Regarding tax on crypto profits, our country is really one of the few that has very favorable laws, but on the other hand, there is also a law that says that other income from abroad is taxed at a rate of about 30% (I'm not sure) and what is even more stupid is that you have to report the tax after every payment, which in the case of a signature campaign means going to the tax office every week and filling out the paperwork.

On the other hand, I would have no problem paying profit tax even if it were twice as much, I just feel very bad when I know where the money goes - and it goes into the private pockets of politicians and their eligible staff in public companies.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on October 11, 2022, 10:42:58 AM

With Portugal and also Germany having the rule that crypto held for more than one year is not taxed, I can hope that this could become the main rule over EU.
Or am I hoping for too much?

I would say that the hopes are too high, because our bureaucrats cannot agree on almost anything, not even on whether or not summer/winter time should be abolished. Maybe it's best that taxes remain something in the jurisdiction of national states, because in the end we don't all have the same VAT, and I don't think it's realistic to even expect something like that.

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Quote from: Lucius on October 11, 2022, 09:30:36 AM

I wasn't thinking of politicians and their servants, but of ordinary people who certainly wouldn't have anything against paying 0% tax, even if they had to wait for it for several years. When you look only at the differences within the EU when it comes to taxation and regulation of cryptocurrencies, then you see how many differences there are according to something that should be harmonized across the entire union.

It was clear. Almost nobody likes to pay taxes, and if they are in favor of certain taxes being levied, what they really want is for them to be levied on "the rich" which happens to always be people who get paid more than they do, even if they get $100k a year or more.

If all those in favor of 0% tax vote for politicians who raise taxes on them I expect them not to complain.

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Quote from: joker_josue on October 10, 2022, 02:45:12 PM

Today the Study Budget for 2023 was delivered for Portugal.

And with the novelty of cryptoassets (coins, NFTs and the like) they are now taxed at 28%. Shocked

But, there is a "good" but! Wink

This fee will only be on the capital gains of crypto-assets “held for a period of less than one year”. Profits made by crypto assets obtained for more than 365 days are exempt from taxation.

The main points are:

Quote

The main novelty concerns the gains obtained with crypto-assets held for less than a year, as is the case with the profits generated by the sale of cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin. The regime, which is similar to that of shares, implies that taxpayers have to declare these operations and pay a 28% IRS tax, or opt for aggregation.

If the assets are held for more than one year, these earnings are exempt. On this point, the proposal's articles clarifies that, for this count, the holding period of crypto assets acquired before the date of entry into force of the new regime is also accounted for.

Still in terms of the IRS, the Government proposes “the taxation of income from operations with crypto-assets such as business and professional income”. Here, other activities are included, such as cryptocurrency mining and cryptocurrency issuance.

The budget will now be debated in parliament and then it will have to be approved.
Since the government has an absolute majority, it will certainly pass. Of course, there may still be some adjustment regarding these measures.

Source (in PT): https://eco.sapo.pt/2022/10/10/ganhos-com-criptomoedas-detidas-por-menos-de-um-ano-vao-pagar-28-em-irs/

India have done something similar when indian finance minister nimala sitaram announce 30% tax on all crypto gains. Community shows mixed reaction about it some says its good at least they recognizing crypto as something legal. Though they introduced crypto as a assets class not currency and these days indian central bank released a grand notice about digital INR.

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Quote from: Rikafip on October 11, 2022, 10:44:22 AM

Stablecoins are cryptocurrencies, so it shouldn't matter whether its BTC, ETH, USDT or DOGE.

Yes, that's right. I only said that because the EU is planning to create a different "category" for stablecoins. But for now in Portugal, everything is in the same category.

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Quote from: Cryptock on October 10, 2022, 04:54:17 PM

I think the gov should give waver to them for they help themselves and the country - I am impressed the way Nigeria and Philippines has worked on the crypto - they have helped the locals and locals have helped bringing the revenus to the country

Nigeria government helped locals when it comes to bitcoin adoption? If anything, they made it harder for people to use bitcoin,but adoption there happened despite their efforts, not because of them. Regarding Philippines, situation there ain't perfect either as they have no tax up to $4500, and after that its 35%.

Quote from: joker_josue on October 11, 2022, 09:17:12 AM

The information is still not clear enough, if this is valid in the exchange between currencies or even if it is for a stablecoin. As of this writing, it is valid for all cryptoassets, which includes everything.

Stablecoins are cryptocurrencies, so it shouldn't matter whether its BTC, ETH, USDT or DOGE.

Overall, not a bad deal for Portuguese crypto hodlers, but I think my country is even more hodling friendly as at the moment we pay only 10% tax (+surtax) and we don't have to pay tax at all if we hodl for two years.

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Quote from: joker_josue on October 11, 2022, 09:57:17 AM

Probably at the beginning of next year we will have news regarding the regulation by the EU. Perhaps this issue of war has delayed legislation by the European Union a little. The last news I saw about it, therefore, point out that in 2024 there is already a regulation for the entire EU.

With Portugal and also Germany having the rule that crypto held for more than one year is not taxed, I can hope that this could become the main rule over EU.
Or am I hoping for too much?

However, these regulations just happen very slow, with or without the war. This is how politics go, I expect a lot of negotiations happen also behind closed doors. Some want evolution, some want more taxes, ....

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Quote from: Lucius on October 11, 2022, 08:26:26 AM

Quote from: tabas on October 11, 2022, 05:57:53 AM

~snip~
So, basically if someone has sold bitcoin or other crypto and holds it for more than a year in a stable coin and later on converts into fiat. That can exempt him in that 28%, right?

In principle, it should be like that, unless the legislator specifies otherwise. In essence, it doesn't matter to them if you sold Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency a year after you bought it. It is crucial to prove when you bought something and when you convert to fiat.

I guess that their basis is if or when any sort of crypto to them will only be sold if it's converted into fiat. I hope they make clarity with that.

Quote from: joker_josue on October 11, 2022, 09:17:12 AM

Quote from: tabas on October 11, 2022, 05:57:53 AM

So, basically if someone has sold bitcoin or other crypto and holds it for more than a year in a stable coin and later on converts into fiat. That can exempt him in that 28%, right?

Despite these rules not yet completely closed. What can be understood is that if the user keeps the crypto asset (currency or NFT), for more than one year after the purchase, it is not taxed.

The information is still not clear enough, if this is valid in the exchange between currencies or even if it is for a stablecoin. As of this writing, it is valid for all cryptoassets, which includes everything.

In theory, that assumption is right so even if bitcoin or any other crypto has been exchanged into a stable coin. That's still crypto and that makes it exempted into taxation in Portugal if somebody holds that for a year and a couple of days. There's still a need for them to clarify and specific such as things like this. But all in all, this is a very good news for the residents there.

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Quote from: Lucius on October 11, 2022, 09:30:36 AM

I wasn't thinking of politicians and their servants, but of ordinary people who certainly wouldn't have anything against paying 0% tax, even if they had to wait for it for several years. When you look only at the differences within the EU when it comes to taxation and regulation of cryptocurrencies, then you see how many differences there are according to something that should be harmonized across the entire union.

Probably at the beginning of next year we will have news regarding the regulation by the EU. Perhaps this issue of war has delayed legislation by the European Union a little. The last news I saw about it, therefore, point out that in 2024 there is already a regulation for the entire EU.

Lucius

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 11, 2022, 08:42:14 AM

What's the other one?

The one that no one considers too important to be mentioned in almost any context when it comes to Bitcoin, but no one could have imagined that such an insignificant country could play the final of the 2018 World Cup in Russia Wink

Unlike Germany, I don't have to pay tax until after 2 years - but I also don't have to pay any tax on all crypto investments before January 1, 2016 if I can prove it.

Quote from: Poker Player on October 11, 2022, 08:42:14 AM

Not everyone. Many politicians are so narrow-minded that such a measure will be a matter of a few isolated countries. With the global trend towards more and more public spending and taxes, exempting a tax is not something that is going to be generalized.

I wasn't thinking of politicians and their servants, but of ordinary people who certainly wouldn't have anything against paying 0% tax, even if they had to wait for it for several years. When you look only at the differences within the EU when it comes to taxation and regulation of cryptocurrencies, then you see how many differences there are according to something that should be harmonized across the entire union.

Slovenia is also a very friendly country towards cryptocurrencies, I think there is a topic about it in the Legal board, and from this year all crypto profits (for individuals) up to EUR 15 000 should be tax-free.

joker_josue

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Quote from: tabas on October 11, 2022, 05:57:53 AM

So, basically if someone has sold bitcoin or other crypto and holds it for more than a year in a stable coin and later on converts into fiat. That can exempt him in that 28%, right?

Despite these rules not yet completely closed. What can be understood is that if the user keeps the crypto asset (currency or NFT), for more than one year after the purchase, it is not taxed.

The information is still not clear enough, if this is valid in the exchange between currencies or even if it is for a stablecoin. As of this writing, it is valid for all cryptoassets, which includes everything.

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Quote from: Lucius on October 11, 2022, 05:30:07 AM

There are at least two other countries that have a tax rate of 0% after a certain period of investment, but also those that have tax-exempt up to a certain amount in one calendar year.

I knew about Germany:

Germany Affirms Crypto Sold After One Year Is Tax-free

What's the other one?

Quote from: Lucius on October 11, 2022, 05:30:07 AM

I think that everyone anywhere in the world would agree with such tax rules, especially those who invest for a long term of 1 or 2 years.

Not everyone. Many politicians are so narrow-minded that such a measure will be a matter of a few isolated countries. With the global trend towards more and more public spending and taxes, exempting a tax is not something that is going to be generalized.

Lucius

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Quote from: tabas on October 11, 2022, 05:57:53 AM

~snip~
So, basically if someone has sold bitcoin or other crypto and holds it for more than a year in a stable coin and later on converts into fiat. That can exempt him in that 28%, right?

In principle, it should be like that, unless the legislator specifies otherwise. In essence, it doesn't matter to them if you sold Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency a year after you bought it. It is crucial to prove when you bought something and when you convert to fiat.

tabas

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Quote from: Cryptock on October 10, 2022, 04:54:17 PM

Oh Gosh - 28% tax
I think the gov should give waver to them for they help themselves and the country - I am impressed the way Nigeria and Philippines has worked on the crypto - they have helped the locals and locals have helped bringing the revenus to the country

As per as the other details, you'll be exempted if you've been holding for more than a year. India has got this tax way higher than Portugal @ 30% tax.
This is applicable for the long term holders and you just have to let it sit for a year and one just to pass on that incentive.
So, basically if someone has sold bitcoin or other crypto and holds it for more than a year in a stable coin and later on converts into fiat. That can exempt him in that 28%, right?

Lucius

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It is not surprising that Portugal is adjusting its laws on the taxation of crypto assets, which is just following what some other countries within the EU have adopted when it comes to taxation of this type. There are at least two other countries that have a tax rate of 0% after a certain period of investment, but also those that have tax-exempt up to a certain amount in one calendar year.

I think that everyone anywhere in the world would agree with such tax rules, especially those who invest for a long term of 1 or 2 years.

Topic: Portugal will be "hodling friendly" (Read 244 times)