Possible claims process for GLBSE assets.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: RHA on November 23, 2012, 04:39:05 PM

Quote from: stochastic on November 23, 2012, 12:50:24 PM

Why don't you start your own thread and close it yourself?

Hm, you may be right. I've just thought there was no point in keeping "Possible claims process..." open while Nefario had started to send asset data to issuers.
Yes, I should have asked you, the OP, to close the thread. So, do as you wish.
[/quote

I would hold off on your wide-eyed support for Nefario and his ability to do claims process. There has been reports or problems with the assets. On the GLBSE blog it claims:

Quote from: blog.glbse.com

GIGAMINING
BITBOND
YABMC
FPGAMINING
PUREMINING
YARR
COGNITIVE
BTC-MINING
ZETA-MINING
IBB

These lists are not 100% complete, users who have not claimed their GLBSE account, and users who have not returned the double payment of bitcoin have not been included.

These lists are not 100% complete, but not for the reason Nefario states. There are people that did not receive a double payment and have claimed their GLBSE accounts. In fact my name is not on any issuer's list although I received my bitcoins still in th eaccount and I did not receive double payments.

RHA

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: stochastic on November 23, 2012, 12:50:24 PM

Why don't you start your own thread and close it yourself?

Hm, you may be right. I've just thought there was no point in keeping "Possible claims process..." open while Nefario had started to send asset data to issuers.
Yes, I should have asked you, the OP, to close the thread. So, do as you wish.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: RHA on November 23, 2012, 09:20:31 AM

(To moderators: I'm sorry for crossposting this, but it is of great interest for many people. I think this thread should be closed with an indication of "GLBSE Payment Claims (Announce your payment here)" thread.)

Why don't you start your own thread and close it yourself?

RHA

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: blog.glbse.com

Nov 22 / 5:28am Issers who have been given lists so far
by James McCarthy

GIGAMINING
BITBOND
YABMC
FPGAMINING
PUREMINING
YARR
COGNITIVE
BTC-MINING
ZETA-MINING
IBB

These lists are not 100% complete, users who have not claimed their GLBSE account, and users who have not returned the double payment of bitcoin have not been included.

I'm still currently working with users who have lost their login details and issuer lists.

Quote from: blog.glbse.com

Nov 22 / 11:15am Refunding double payments and getting your assets.
by James McCarthy

I've gotten a LOT of emails in the last 24 hours from users who got a double payment and they have not returned it yet.

I will contact you all tomorrow with an individual payment address, and we can get you onto your issuers shareholders lists.

For anyone who has not already contacted me, please email the address you were overpaid to at [email protected]

Please be patient, thank you.

(To moderators: I'm sorry for crossposting this, but it is of great interest for many people. I think this thread should be closed with an indication of "GLBSE Payment Claims (Announce your payment here)" thread.)

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: matthewh3 on November 22, 2012, 02:52:46 PM

Quote from: HorseRider on November 20, 2012, 02:06:48 AM

Quote from: burnside on November 19, 2012, 05:31:03 PM

I wonder why Nef pulled that feature.

He wouldn't even have needed to code up anything new if he'd just left that in. =/

It is very likely that Nefario is trying to modify the share number balance and steal some shares and funds from the users. Or he had already decided not to return the asset info and money at the very beginning.

I've met Nefario and he came across as being very honest and trustworthy. Not at any time did I think this guy was dodgy or even grey-area. I have nothing to gain and everything to loose for commenting on his character as such.

I am glad you trust Nefario but he has lost a lot of trust with other people. I don't think oversight is uncalled for in this situation.

matthewh3

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1003

Quote from: HorseRider on November 20, 2012, 02:06:48 AM

Quote from: burnside on November 19, 2012, 05:31:03 PM

I wonder why Nef pulled that feature.

He wouldn't even have needed to code up anything new if he'd just left that in. =/

It is very likely that Nefario is trying to modify the share number balance and steal some shares and funds from the users. Or he had already decided not to return the asset info and money at the very beginning.

I've met Nefario and he came across as being very honest and trustworthy. Not at any time did I think this guy was dodgy or even grey-area. I have nothing to gain and everything to loose for commenting on his character as such.

RHA

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: stochastic on November 20, 2012, 02:10:45 AM

For the time being lets assume James McCarthy will never send the asset information.

The sending started yesterday.
http://blog.glbse.com/issuers-being-given-shareholder-lists

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: stochastic on November 20, 2012, 02:10:45 AM

For the time being lets assume James McCarthy will never send the asset information.

Does anyone else have any ideas for a claims process?

None that could work.

Yet another one of those instances where people will have to mark a loss as a loss and move on.

Quote from: memvola on November 20, 2012, 04:57:18 AM

heuristic to vet claims by partially reconstructing the actual trade history

None of this is actual verification however. In practice it will simply function as follows: the asset issuers find themselves with an immoral windfall (the value of their shares which were annulled by GLBSE, thus stealing from all the shareholders) and somehow try to ease their conscience by splitting this windfall with their friends. While this is quite human behavior, any claim that it increases the overall fairness is pure bollocks. It may reduce the overall complaining, but I think that's unlikely.

memvola

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 1002

Quote from: stochastic on November 20, 2012, 02:10:45 AM

For the time being lets assume James McCarthy will never send the asset information.

Does anyone else have any ideas for a claims process?

If we had enough of these CSV files, we could devise some heuristic to vet claims by partially reconstructing the actual trade history, which would be a deterrent for false claims. With enough addresses, the money flow within GLBSE could also be clarified and potential deposit/withdrawals verified that way. There is also this possibility that the database will be leaked, at least an early snapshot. All these combined with a threat to publicize false claimants would help a lot with a claim process.

friedcat did the best by collecting the information while there was still a chance that Nefario would release the db, and the claims process went really well. However, since the deterrents do lose effect, shareholders need to pressure issuers to start collecting claims as soon as possible, and in the meantime we need to figure out new ways to invalidate false claims.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

For the time being lets assume James McCarthy will never send the asset information.

Does anyone else have any ideas for a claims process?

HorseRider

donator

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1001

Quote from: burnside on November 19, 2012, 05:31:03 PM

I wonder why Nef pulled that feature.

He wouldn't even have needed to code up anything new if he'd just left that in. =/

It is very likely that Nefario is trying to modify the share number balance and steal some shares and funds from the users. Or he had already decided not to return the asset info and money at the very beginning.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: 2GOOD on November 19, 2012, 06:58:07 PM

Something has to be done.. Personally I have several csv exports for my orders and a screenshot of my portfolio page just after the site was shut down. The problem is that we must convince the share issuers to accept such claims, since now gigavps does not. Another point will be maybe a warning for future scams that if/when Nefario release that information any account with scam attempt will be closed or something like this. Only the open buy/sell orders will be a issue.

I am sure the large asset issuers are only concerned with the process as this process for claims may take a very long time to process in their case.

I image the initial check could be automated.

1. import the account history csv
2. check that the funds are in balance (i.e. there is no negative btc balance in the account history).
3. confirm the bitcoin address in the account history files

I don't think it is unnecessary to wait 3 months from the time GLBSE shut down to expect to have the asset information, but there is not a reason that asset issuers might start collecting the claim information. Then after that 3 months give up on Nefario and do this process.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: Deprived on November 19, 2012, 06:18:01 PM

If he was trying to do things in a sensible fashion he'd just have cleared order book and prevented adding new orders/making cash transfers/paying dividends. Then everyone could have withdrawn their funds at leisure and sorted things with asset-issuers with no risk of idiocy like returning funds twice. That would have taken all of 5-10 minutes of his time and not had any problems (I didn't do any transfers of shares on GLBSE but assume it showed who sent them - so asset issuers could just have requested shares to be returned then reissued them on a different platform).

But where would the fun, drama and chance to excel in demonstrating incompetence have been had he done that? This way he gets to drag his 15 minutes of fame on for a few months and gets to make sure he has absolutely zero chance of ever having any credibility in the BTC community again. Can only assume he wanted to make sure he burned his bridges - as, had he so chosen, he could most definitely have left them intact with far less effort.

Alternatively people could smarten up and not use any securities exchange that doth not sign receipts.

2GOOD

hero member

Activity: 547

Merit: 531

First bits: 12good

Something has to be done.. Personally I have several csv exports for my orders and a screenshot of my portfolio page just after the site was shut down. The problem is that we must convince the share issuers to accept such claims, since now gigavps does not. Another point will be maybe a warning for future scams that if/when Nefario release that information any account with scam attempt will be closed or something like this. Only the open buy/sell orders will be a issue.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: burnside on November 19, 2012, 05:31:03 PM

I wonder why Nef pulled that feature.

He wouldn't even have needed to code up anything new if he'd just left that in. =/

If he was trying to do things in a sensible fashion he'd just have cleared order book and prevented adding new orders/making cash transfers/paying dividends. Then everyone could have withdrawn their funds at leisure and sorted things with asset-issuers with no risk of idiocy like returning funds twice. That would have taken all of 5-10 minutes of his time and not had any problems (I didn't do any transfers of shares on GLBSE but assume it showed who sent them - so asset issuers could just have requested shares to be returned then reissued them on a different platform).

But where would the fun, drama and chance to excel in demonstrating incompetence have been had he done that? This way he gets to drag his 15 minutes of fame on for a few months and gets to make sure he has absolutely zero chance of ever having any credibility in the BTC community again. Can only assume he wanted to make sure he burned his bridges - as, had he so chosen, he could most definitely have left them intact with far less effort.

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1006

Lead Blockchain Developer

I wonder why Nef pulled that feature.

He wouldn't even have needed to code up anything new if he'd just left that in. =/

Kluge

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1015

Quote from: exahash on November 19, 2012, 03:26:27 PM

Quote from: stochastic on November 19, 2012, 02:44:09 PM

Quote from: burnside on November 19, 2012, 02:13:21 PM

Quote from: Kluge on November 19, 2012, 09:21:42 AM

I recall someone mentioning they were still able to retrieve their account history .csv from GLBSE. Does someone remember the link to do so?

+1

Can someone who downloaded the CSV please go through their browser history and provide the link?

If nefario somehow left this functionality up and working, then we may have a way to pull down claims and verify them for people willing to give up their GLBSE login/password info to a trusted 3rd party. Grab one of the people that are trusted to do escrow and have them download and validate the CSV's...

This is a great idea, but I have not heard of it being up. I know a lot of people wanted to get their history but could not.

I wrote a perl script to download my activity. I can confirm that the history link does not work right now (I get a 404). The url I was using was https://www.glbse.com/porfolio/csv -- porfolio was missing the t on purpose.

Damn. That would've been almost as good as getting the info released from Nef.

exahash

sr. member

Activity: 278

Merit: 250

Quote from: stochastic on November 19, 2012, 02:44:09 PM

Quote from: burnside on November 19, 2012, 02:13:21 PM

Quote from: Kluge on November 19, 2012, 09:21:42 AM

I recall someone mentioning they were still able to retrieve their account history .csv from GLBSE. Does someone remember the link to do so?

+1

Can someone who downloaded the CSV please go through their browser history and provide the link?

If nefario somehow left this functionality up and working, then we may have a way to pull down claims and verify them for people willing to give up their GLBSE login/password info to a trusted 3rd party. Grab one of the people that are trusted to do escrow and have them download and validate the CSV's...

This is a great idea, but I have not heard of it being up. I know a lot of people wanted to get their history but could not.

I wrote a perl script to download my activity. I can confirm that the history link does not work right now (I get a 404). The url I was using was https://www.glbse.com/porfolio/csv -- porfolio was missing the t on purpose.

I have a log of trades scraped from twitter, in case we need corroboration of your csv. I have a copy of the markets page from 10/4 at 9:25 AM Eastern. Not sure what time GLBSE stopped operating, but I suspect that was within a few hours.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: burnside on November 19, 2012, 02:13:21 PM

Quote from: Kluge on November 19, 2012, 09:21:42 AM

I recall someone mentioning they were still able to retrieve their account history .csv from GLBSE. Does someone remember the link to do so?

+1

Can someone who downloaded the CSV please go through their browser history and provide the link?

If nefario somehow left this functionality up and working, then we may have a way to pull down claims and verify them for people willing to give up their GLBSE login/password info to a trusted 3rd party. Grab one of the people that are trusted to do escrow and have them download and validate the CSV's...

This is a great idea, but I have not heard of it being up. I know a lot of people wanted to get their history but could not.

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1006

Lead Blockchain Developer

Quote from: Kluge on November 19, 2012, 09:21:42 AM

I recall someone mentioning they were still able to retrieve their account history .csv from GLBSE. Does someone remember the link to do so?

+1

Can someone who downloaded the CSV please go through their browser history and provide the link?

If nefario somehow left this functionality up and working, then we may have a way to pull down claims and verify them for people willing to give up their GLBSE login/password info to a trusted 3rd party. Grab one of the people that are trusted to do escrow and have them download and validate the CSV's...

Topic: Possible claims process for GLBSE assets. (Read 2663 times)