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Topic: Post-2007 SecondLife (sans admins), here we come! - page 2. (Read 5834 times)

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
As far as i know Second Life doesn't have a real "economy". Yes you can buy linden dollars and give them to other ppl in exchange for something, but this isn't an economy, it's just "buy from linden labs, give to player"

If we consider the MMO world and we want a real Economy, then we must consider EVE Online. It even has scams. And the ingame money has a value because people will give you euro/dollar/bitcoins to get it to build fleets and armies, not just because linden labs says "it is worth xx"
Bad argument is bad.

Second Life and EVE currencies are almost identical, and I'm not sure why you are trying to separate the two.
- Both currencies can be exchanged for real-world fiat.
- Both currencies can be used to buy virtual in-game items.
- Both currencies have (or used to have) investment scams, HYIP's, and all the good stuff that goes along with unregulated monies.
- Both currencies have value.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
As far as i know Second Life doesn't have a real "economy". Yes you can buy linden dollars and give them to other ppl in exchange for something, but this isn't an economy, it's just "buy from linden labs, give to player"

If we consider the MMO world and we want a real Economy, then we must consider EVE Online. It even has scams. And the ingame money has a value because people will give you euro/dollar/bitcoins to get it to build fleets and armies, not just because linden labs says "it is worth xx"
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
At some level, the only practical difference between a 100% regulated society and a 100% deregulated society, is that in the regulated case the big dogs can use the coercive power of the state to justify eating the little dogs.

Oh, I completely agree, it's two sides of the same coin; one ends with us killing each other, the other ends with a bigger entity killing us but either way, it's not a happy ending. What I saying though is that we shouldn't be allergic to any regulation, that rules put in place sometimes can be beneficial. A good example is the simple traffic light where a red light means we stop and a green light means we go. We give up the power to drive however we want, maniacally or safely, for the greater of society. Finding a good balance of regulation is important, but BitCoin lacks this safety net so the only choice we have is to hope to whatever deity we pray to that we stay on track and never fall in the first place. My post was simply for those cheerleaders waving their 100% deregulation pom poms that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

Even if we don't have regulations, we can still have agreements everyone follows. And maybe after a while of some members causing too much havoc, without government regulations we'll simply, as a society, agree on being much more strict about that sort of thing. Maybe eventually it will be considered normal for many people to have some small bounties on them in the black market, and for people to keep track of how much they are pissing someone else off, lest it reaches high enough for someone to offer to work for said bounty. Who knows.
I'm not saying that whatever Bitcoin will have at the next stage will be good, or bad. We don't really have a clear answer to that, since it won't be anything like the typical Stage 8. I am saying that, to me, anyway, the next stage should be very interesting to watch.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
At some level, the only practical difference between a 100% regulated society and a 100% deregulated society, is that in the regulated case the big dogs can use the coercive power of the state to justify eating the little dogs.

Oh, I completely agree, it's two sides of the same coin; one ends with us killing each other, the other ends with a bigger entity killing us but either way, it's not a happy ending. What I saying though is that we shouldn't be allergic to any regulation, that rules put in place sometimes can be beneficial. A good example is the simple traffic light where a red light means we stop and a green light means we go. We give up the power to drive however we want, maniacally or safely, for the greater of society. Finding a good balance of regulation is important, but BitCoin lacks this safety net so the only choice we have is to hope to whatever deity we pray to that we stay on track and never fall in the first place. My post was simply for those cheerleaders waving their 100% deregulation pom poms that the grass is not always greener on the other side.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1688
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
Free market not only gives freedom to individuals. It also liberates society from burden of the weak members.
The weak must perish, so the strong may flourish.
...There has to be a balance, harmony, somewhere, but a "dog eat dog world" certainly doesn't promote this. Bottom line, a 100% deregulated market is the same coin as a 100% regulated market as both are so far in the extremes they are right next to each other.

At some level, the only practical difference between a 100% regulated society and a 100% deregulated society, is that in the regulated case the big dogs can use the coercive power of the state to justify eating the little dogs.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
Free market not only gives freedom to individuals. It also liberates society from burden of the weak members.
The weak must perish, so the strong may flourish.

To a certain degree that could be true, but the world isn't a zero sum game. The majority of the world are the weak, they are the followers that take orders from the strong, but what happens if the weak leave (or are "liberated" as you eloquently put it)? You just end up with an empty sandbox, you end up with BitCoins that no one uses nor will use. There has to be a balance, harmony, somewhere, but a "dog eat dog world" certainly doesn't promote this. Bottom line, a 100% deregulated market is the same coin as a 100% regulated market as both are so far in the extremes they are right next to each other.

I do have a financial stake, as do a vast majority of people on these forums, and I hope it doesn't go down the drain. Looking at what has happened as of late, it doesn't look too good. BitCoin is a test, something that really hasn't been done in the past, but human nature has been put to the test numerous times, and it has almost always ended quite barbarically. If it ends well, we'll all be profit, and we can show the world that we as humans can "contain our animal urges and learn restraint." If it doesn't, it just goes to show that we are just wild (albiet refined) animals and that some regulation is better than no regulation.
sr. member
Activity: 546
Merit: 252
Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
I hate to say this but this "unveiling of number 8" isn't always a good thing. So far in history there is a reason why the heavy hand of authority comes into play, and unsurprisingly after markets have been deregulated for a time period, and turned into a steaming pile of shit. I personally believe that human nature falls into two social categories - those that take advantage of people and those that are taken advantaged of. There will be other pirateat40's with get rich quick ponzi schemes, there will be other Matt's that make reckless bets and don't pay up, and there will be many other denizens that will be far worse than these two combined; at this point in time, it's a simple race to the bottom really.

So, what happens in a completely unregulated market? Is it all a house of cards and one blow away from oblivion because there is no trust? Do all the weak hands, and/or naive investors all leave? Will people finally wise up after being scammed (maybe numerous times) and understand that this isn't a game? You are right, we are going into an unknown, but no one really knows if this will be good or bad.
Free market not only gives freedom to individuals. It also liberates society from burden of the weak members.
The weak must perish, so the strong may flourish.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
I hate to say this but this "unveiling of number 8" isn't always a good thing. So far in history there is a reason why the heavy hand of authority comes into play, and unsurprisingly after markets have been deregulated for a time period, and turned into a steaming pile of shit. I personally believe that human nature falls into two social categories - those that take advantage of people and those that are taken advantaged of. There will be other pirateat40's with get rich quick ponzi schemes, there will be other Matt's that make reckless bets and don't pay up, and there will be many other denizens that will be far worse than these two combined; at this point in time, it's a simple race to the bottom really.

So, what happens in a completely unregulated market? Is it all a house of cards and one blow away from oblivion because there is no trust? Do all the weak hands, and/or naive investors all leave? Will people finally wise up after being scammed (maybe numerous times) and understand that this isn't a game? You are right, we are going into an unknown, but no one really knows if this will be the end or beginning.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1688
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
Couple observations:

Linden Lab is the central bank that issues $L. Bitcoin has no CB. Ergo, no step 8 is possible.

Linden Lab finanaces itself mostly through three routes. The first is in rental of server space or resources, in the form of virtual real estate. The second is in paid premium accounts. The last, and it is not an insignificant one, is in sale of $L for fiat to inworld residents and others. If they switched to BTC, thet would be abandoning this revenue source. IOW, don't expect SL to accept BTC any time soon.

I have done a few BTC transactions inworld. However, these are peeer-to-peer. The SL viewers have built-in support for $L. The friction of using BTC is orders of magnitude higher. Accordingly, it seems unlikely that BTC will ever achieve widespread use in SL.

There are a number of technically-similar virtual worlds. Most of these are open source at their core. These may be ideal for BTC adoption. Personally, I feel that what SL has that these other worlds do not is a real functioning currency. Integrating BTC into OpenLifeGrid may lead to the masses adopting that world in preference to SL.
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1520
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
Don't get too excited. Gavin has already promised a September surprise that is supposed to "create stability" in the bitcoin economy. We may yet be under the control of some authority to prevent this exploration. It's really sad to see him keep this secret from everyone and just spring it on us the way he plans on doing.

of course, the saint satoshi...  Grin

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
Check out Open Simulator, OSGrid and so on.

Basically, virtual worlds compatible with Second Life (you can use a Second Life client to visit them) are now free open source software.

If you try to build large grids, the grid servers of course become the centralisation spot of vulnerability, the place to close down to try to shut it all down.

But everyone can run as their own entire grid if they wish, and there is a hypergrid system allowing people (avatars) to move from grid to grid.

So radical decentralisation is ready to deploy.

Personally I find the whole three dimensional graphics thing far too much computing resources to have to deal with just to do simple things I can do more of better with less resources by avoiding the 3D and avoiding even the (also bloated and resource-hungry) browser and going back to good old text mode.

But there is no reason why the things nerds prefer to do in text mode cannot be done in three dimensional virtual worlds by those who are willing to load down their machines with all the overhead involved in displaying such worlds.

It might take the flocks of sheep a while to adapt to radical decentralisation if their flocking is not based on real connectedness among them; many of them might not actually have hundreds of friends, depending on mass-meeting spots/mechanisms to find a flock at any given moment instead of having a rich personal connections network that keeps them in touch with their flock regardless of which universe they feel like playing in.

We have the technology. Second Life is not dead, it has simply priced and regulated itself out of the market...

-MarkM-
hero member
Activity: 811
Merit: 1000
Web Developer
Don't get too excited. Gavin has already promised a September surprise that is supposed to "create stability" in the bitcoin economy. We may yet be under the control of some authority to prevent this exploration. It's really sad to see him keep this secret from everyone and just spring it on us the way he plans on doing.
I don't think you should be going around hinting at this.  I doubt Gavin would push such a thing onto Bitcoin, it would undermine the original goal of the project and many of the users would abandon it for another cryptocurrency that didn't make terrible decisions.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Don't get too excited. Gavin has already promised a September surprise that is supposed to "create stability" in the bitcoin economy. We may yet be under the control of some authority to prevent this exploration. It's really sad to see him keep this secret from everyone and just spring it on us the way he plans on doing.

without a complete redesign of the currency i don't see how it could be centrally controlled.

and if that happens, we fork to xxcoin
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
Don't get too excited. Gavin has already promised a September surprise that is supposed to "create stability" in the bitcoin economy. We may yet be under the control of some authority to prevent this exploration. It's really sad to see him keep this secret from everyone and just spring it on us the way he plans on doing.
sr. member
Activity: 546
Merit: 252
Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
Very inspirational. Thank you.
I have to add, we all must work to keep Bitcoin going.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
time to integrate bitcoin into a virtual world as its main currency
I wonder if it would be possible to integrate it directly into Second Life using SL's API?
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
time to integrate bitcoin into a virtual world as its main currency
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
People still play SecondLife?
Same question i have...

Anyway we are post stage 7? Then 8 will come: After numerous complaints, Bitcoin passes new financial regulations, banning all gambling, and all interest-bearing accounts. Casinos, game places, and financial services close. Loaning freezes. Economy comes to a standstill, and many businesses and merchants abandon BTC. Things are never really the same since.

No wait, no one can "force" anything.
Exactly.  There may be regulations put in place on 3rd party companies that process transactions (exchanges, payment processors, etc), but that won't stop people from transacting directly with each other, just like people still transact directly with each other with cash.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
People still play SecondLife?
Same question i have...

Anyway we are post stage 7? Then 8 will come: After numerous complaints, Bitcoin passes new financial regulations, banning all gambling, and all interest-bearing accounts. Casinos, game places, and financial services close. Loaning freezes. Economy comes to a standstill, and many businesses and merchants abandon BTC. Things are never really the same since.

No wait, no one can "force" anything.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
Hah, I did the whole "buy and resell real estate" thing.  I'd look for the cheapest large plots I could find, then subdivide them into the smallest plots possible and sell them just below the going market rate, ensuring a quick sale.  I'd just about double-up every time I did this.  Unfortunately, they changed the sorting on the real estate listings when they introduced leasing (or renting?), which meant that those leased properties always showed up as the lowest price/square meter compared to everything else, making it impossible to find good deals on real estate actually for sale.  It was fun while it lasted, and I made $75 for doing almost nothing.  I wanted to invest in an island and do the same, but it was too large a chunk of money for me to risk at the time.
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