PoW is not what makes Bitcoin secure - page 2.

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin should be least secure cryptocurrency since another cryptocurrency have far bigger block size limit Tongue

--snip--

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 21, 2020, 11:55:04 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin should be least secure cryptocurrency since another cryptocurrency have far bigger block size limit Tongue

--snip--

Monero has a dynamic blocksize. This eliminates the need for miners to merge into a centralized mining union.

Image source : https://twitter.com/ryanthalion_/status/744601806114742272

Quote from: pixie85 on July 21, 2020, 06:19:08 PM

Are you some kind of Monero shill op?

He pretend to be shill, but what he actually do is destroying Monero community reputation (whether it's intentional or not).

Haha. Yeah Monero community is dark web crypto. We don't need your normie reputation anyway

MarioV

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So what makes bitcoin resistant to double spending? Isn't that computational and expensive (Po)Work that protects his ledger from breaking?

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 22, 2020, 02:50:23 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 22, 2020, 01:28:42 AM

Bitcoin was indeed meant to be anonymous because cash is anonymous, but as a prototype it's insufficient in these features too. It can't be "cash" if it's not anonymous like cash. That's the whole point and concern with "digital cash"

no it did not. bitcoin's main focus has been decentralization and censorship resistance. it also offers you the chance to remain anonymous by making some effort which is more of privacy rather than anonimity but it is not the default setting and it was never promised.
and anonymity has never been the "whole point and concern" ever.

If not, so why doesn't the wallet contain a field for all your personal data?

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 22, 2020, 12:17:20 AM

Quote from: franky1 on July 21, 2020, 10:18:44 PM

i know the OP is just trying to promote a crappy proof of stake coin

i guess you didn't read the entire post. OP is comparing bitcoin with monero and last time i checked monero is using RandomX algorithm which is a proof of work type of algorithm. his arguments don't have much to do with PoW either, he is mostly focusing on anonymity which he refers to as "privacy"!

Yes. I am saying that only large enough PoW blockchains are technically resistant to the 51% attack.

pooya87

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 22, 2020, 01:28:42 AM

Bitcoin was indeed meant to be anonymous because cash is anonymous, but as a prototype it's insufficient in these features too. It can't be "cash" if it's not anonymous like cash. That's the whole point and concern with "digital cash"

no it did not. bitcoin's main focus has been decentralization and censorship resistance. it also offers you the chance to remain anonymous by making some effort which is more of privacy rather than anonimity but it is not the default setting and it was never promised.
and anonymity has never been the "whole point and concern" ever.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 22, 2020, 12:17:20 AM

Quote from: franky1 on July 21, 2020, 10:18:44 PM

i know the OP is just trying to promote a crappy proof of stake coin

i guess you didn't read the entire post. OP is comparing bitcoin with monero and last time i checked monero is using RandomX algorithm which is a proof of work type of algorithm. his arguments don't have much to do with PoW either, he is mostly focusing on anonymity which he refers to as "privacy"!

He read it, but franky1 is a gaslighter. I believe he thinks that he can gaslight lurking newbies to be tricked into believing that Monero is POS.

OP, you never replied. Full nodes secure Bitcoin.

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: pixie85 on July 21, 2020, 06:19:08 PM

Are you some kind of Monero shill op?

Monero is not what Bitcoin was meant to be. Bitcoin was not made to be anonymous. Monero is fine, I have nothing against it but it's different than Bitcoin and may face its own problems like being banned from all regulated exchanges at some point.

Monero is on a path to becoming the coin of the deep web.

A shill is someone who gets paid to participate in a swindle. So "shill" and "fine" do not really make sense in the same argument. Bitcoin was indeed meant to be anonymous because cash is anonymous, but as a prototype it's insufficient in these features too. It can't be "cash" if it's not anonymous like cash. That's the whole point and concern with "digital cash". Dark web crypto is just bullshit propaganda. There is no such thing as "evil money and good money". All money is both good and evil, depending how you use it.

pooya87

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Quote from: franky1 on July 21, 2020, 10:18:44 PM

i know the OP is just trying to promote a crappy proof of stake coin

i guess you didn't read the entire post. OP is comparing bitcoin with monero and last time i checked monero is using RandomX algorithm which is a proof of work type of algorithm. his arguments don't have much to do with PoW either, he is mostly focusing on anonymity which he refers to as "privacy"!

franky1

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i know the OP is just trying to promote a crappy proof of stake coin
but anyone can code out the proof of stake and make the next update of them crap coins only want a signature from one source.
yet requiring a block to have a hash thats difficulty is X amount of computations complex. is harder to code out of the system

also its this cost of computing this hash that gives bitcoin an underlying bitcoin cost of creation(mining)
where as all proof of stake needs is to prove they have a shiny pen to sign. and they just keep using that shiny pen to sign. and when they get bored they can sell the pen.

if i was mining gold id prefer gold to need excavators and sluice machines and lots of diesel to extract gold.
gold would be stupidly cheap and worthless if people could earn it with just a pen
PoS has no underlying value/cost holding it up

pixie85

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Are you some kind of Monero shill op?

Monero is not what Bitcoin was meant to be. Bitcoin was not made to be anonymous. Monero is fine, I have nothing against it but it's different than Bitcoin and may face its own problems like being banned from all regulated exchanges at some point.

Monero is on a path to becoming the coin of the deep web.

sakurro

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 20, 2020, 05:23:53 PM

I had many comments saying that the Proof-of-Work algorithm is what makes Bitcoin secure and resist the 51% attack. This is not true. What makes Bitcoin practically resilient to the 51% attack is its size. Because of Bitcoins size it's extremely expensive to perform this attack and therefore nobody will likely do it. But also because of Bitcoins size and because it doesn't really scale, it's very slow. Also Proof-of-Work algorithm is still very susceptible to the 51% attack. I encourage to look into Monero. Monero is basically everything Bitcoin promised to be.

Bitcoin is the only true decentralized currency. If even the blockchain of Ethereum, the second-largest currency, can be reverted by its development team (which has happened before), it is out of question that any other coin matches the security of bitcoin.
All other coins can effectively be reverted or modified by a small group of people.

This is impossible for bitcoin because it is extremely expensive to attack. To me, that's a good thing.

aundroid

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 20, 2020, 05:23:53 PM

I had many comments saying that the Proof-of-Work algorithm is what makes Bitcoin secure and resist the 51% attack. This is not true. What makes Bitcoin practically resilient to the 51% attack is its size. Because of Bitcoins size it's extremely expensive to perform this attack and therefore nobody will likely do it. But also because of Bitcoins size and because it doesn't really scale, it's very slow. Also Proof-of-Work algorithm is still very susceptible to the 51% attack. I encourage to look into Monero. Monero is basically everything Bitcoin promised to be.

You might also want to look at sites like https://www.crypto51.app/ or https://www.exaking.com/51 to have a look at the theoretical costs of a 51% attack.
Bitcoin: between $400,000 and $550,000 an hour. (no idea which side delivers the more exact value)
Monero: $21,000 per hour

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: BrewMaster on July 21, 2020, 12:17:22 PM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 21, 2020, 07:55:30 AM

Well Bitcoin is a privacy coin, but people don't perceive it as such because it's not private. Yeah they rigged all the exchanges with KYC and this basically compromises the privacy of the entire community.

bitcoin offers privacy and that means you don't have to sign up with anyone or anywhere or give up your identity or fill out KYC to use it. it is free of all that.
now if you choose to go to some centralized place and they ask you for your KYC to use their services you can't blame that on bitcoin!

and you seem to be here to talk about monero despite what your title says. well since you mention it you also give KYC while you sign up on exchanges to trade monero

Not on Local Monero. See you got to know how to work this space if you want to remain anonymous. You can enter crypto with Monero here. https://localmonero.co/

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 21, 2020, 07:55:30 AM

Well Bitcoin is a privacy coin, but people don't perceive it as such because it's not private. Yeah they rigged all the exchanges with KYC and this basically compromises the privacy of the entire community.

bitcoin offers privacy and that means you don't have to sign up with anyone or anywhere or give up your identity or fill out KYC to use it. it is free of all that.
now if you choose to go to some centralized place and they ask you for your KYC to use their services you can't blame that on bitcoin!

and you seem to be here to talk about monero despite what your title says. well since you mention it you also give KYC while you sign up on exchanges to trade monero

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: davis196 on July 21, 2020, 07:58:29 AM

OP has several posts on the forum basically writing the same thing:
"Bitcoin has flaws,Monero is perfect.Dump Bitcoin,buy Monero."
OP,you don't have to hide your agenda behind reasons and logic.It's pretty obvious that you are FUDing against Bitcoin and promoting Monero all the time.It's alright to have an opinion,but trying to convince people that your opinion is the the one and only unquestionable truth is a completely different thing.
If Monero was so perfect,then why the Monero price isn't 9K USD?I can tell you why.Because many crypto exchanges removed Monero because it's a privacy coin and the crypto exchanges might have problems with the authorities.
I won't discuss the topic about PoW,because it was already discussed 100 times before.

My agenda is not FUD. My agenda is reason and education. I think rarely or almost never a first attempt to do something is the best. In innovation the first attempt is called a prototype.

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on July 21, 2020, 08:22:00 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 20, 2020, 05:23:53 PM

What makes Bitcoin practically resilient to the 51% attack is its size.

And what is, in your logic, the size of a Bitcoin, I wonder?
Monero is a good coin and has a smart team. Mindless shilling is not on their agenda. What you do is not helping Monero, instead it's bad advertising.
Read more and please stop this kind of posting.

Right. It's a fact. An other fact is that Monero does not need you. In 51% attack the attacker hijacks 51% of the hashrate and gains control of the network this way. So to hijack 51% of the hashrate you need the hardware and electricity to produce 51% of the hashrate

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin should be least secure cryptocurrency since another cryptocurrency have far bigger block size limit Tongue

Image source : https://twitter.com/ryanthalion_/status/744601806114742272

Monero has a dynamic blocksize. This eliminates the need for miners to merge into a centralized mining union.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 20, 2020, 05:23:53 PM

What makes Bitcoin practically resilient to the 51% attack is its size.

And what is, in your logic, the size of a Bitcoin, I wonder?
Monero is a good coin and has a smart team. Mindless shilling is not on their agenda. What you do is not helping Monero, instead it's bad advertising.
Read more and please stop this kind of posting.

davis196

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OP has several posts on the forum basically writing the same thing:
"Bitcoin has flaws,Monero is perfect.Dump Bitcoin,buy Monero."
OP,you don't have to hide your agenda behind reasons and logic.It's pretty obvious that you are FUDing against Bitcoin and promoting Monero all the time.It's alright to have an opinion,but trying to convince people that your opinion is the the one and only unquestionable truth is a completely different thing.
If Monero was so perfect,then why the Monero price isn't 9K USD?I can tell you why.Because many crypto exchanges removed Monero because it's a privacy coin and the crypto exchanges might have problems with the authorities.
I won't discuss the topic about PoW,because it was already discussed 100 times before.

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: Maus0728 on July 21, 2020, 03:39:29 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 21, 2020, 12:48:01 AM

Bitcoin promised to be a decentralized Peer-to-Peer digital cash and a privacy coin

Hmm..I can't remember bitcoin promised that he is a "privacy coin". bitcoin is still in its infancy where the optimum privacy can't still be achieved because of its existing structure where the 3 main cryptographic technique that monero is using such as "stealth address", "ring transaction" and "ring signature" is not fit for bitcoin.

The only thing that bitcoin could achieve at least an increase of privacy is the implementation of schnorr and taproot signature, educating ourselves on how to achieve optimum privacy using different wallet and as much as possible, avoiding KYC.

Well Bitcoin is a privacy coin, but people don't perceive it as such because it's not private. Yeah they rigged all the exchanges with KYC and this basically compromises the privacy of the entire community.

Topic: PoW is not what makes Bitcoin secure - page 2. (Read 599 times)