Topic: Power cost for mining (Read 1528 times)

I think it's too late to start mining now.
It is better to invest the money that you spend on equipment for mining directly in promising crypto / ICOs.

I guess you are a newbie, profitability now increased a bit compared to how it was back when i posted that reply. There was a time when people with 0.1 per kw was getting nothing no profit at all from mining, if you had to pay 0.2 per kw then you would be broken and in debt in a matter of weeks.

How are ROI's that high? shouldn't I be making anywhere from $2-3 A day, even with 580's

Nothing can beat hidro.

 Sounds like Alliant Energy, where the "extra fees and taxes" were often a majority of my total bill.

 Nice thing about the 3 counties of Central Washington "Super Cheap Power Rate", the rates are very simple the only "extra fees" not spelled out in the BASIC RATE SCHEDUAL are the local/state sales tax, and the ALL UP price for 2 of the 3 counties for ALL service types comes to around 3 cents/kwh OR LESS (the third has 4.5 ballpark all-up cost for residential and small business).


 Solar is MORE expensive when you factor all the costs in, unless you get some HUGE government rebates on the equipment costs - and you have to tie into the electrical grid ANYWAY for when the array isn't producing full output or close, or you have to have HUGE battery banks which tend to increase your investment cost a lot AND the batteries wear out and need replacement over time.

 Wind - is similar, but is closer to being competative with normal power generation in many areas and in some high-price electric areas like in California that also have fairly high average winds (Tehachapi Pass or the Cajun Pass areas as examples) it might BE the low-cost option.

if you want to details calculate, i wouldn't advise that you can make big profit and return cash in short period
i would suggest just buy some coins and hold it for a year if you decide want to make profit simple

yes the power 0.07 $ is too expensive for KWH but you can seeking for other source would more reliable the used manufacture / government the solar option is batter one

i made the mistake of selling my gpu's the last time mining became unprofitable. then eth came out and i had to buy them all again. there will be new coins come out from time to time. keep the gpus and mine the new coins that come out and wait to see if they go like eth did

I think your cost for electricity is pretty cheap, here I have a friend he paid 0.12 per kw per hour, he still got some profits for gpu mining.

That's not the scenario for miners at all.  Miners don't have a price point for the coin to wait for... they can either dump for profits now, to offset their capital investment, or hold and wait for higher prices at any time.  At no time does a miner operate at a "loss" except when electricity costs more than the revenue the mining is bringing in.



This is very true.  I think Alan Greenspan called it "irrational exuberance" prior to the markets crashing in 2008.




And I agree with a little bit of sanity checking... my only disagreement is when people say just buying the coin is a better way, and they don't take the full life cycle of a miner into account when trying to show the calculations.  Ignoring resale of equipment is not painting the correct picture between mining versus just buying a coin.



People have been saying this about Bitcoin for years now, but people still mine it for a profit.  Granted, the barrier to entry is a lot higher now, as you have to continuously purchase better and better ASICs.  But, as long as there are PoW coins, there will be miners.

Then you are in the same boat as the hypothetical miner above who invested $2400 to mine the same coin, however by holding a coin you can cut your losses a lot quicker than a miner can.

I am not against mining or am I against trading as I do both. However, there is a time to do one or the other and getting into mining right now just isn't a good investment. Early this year it was a good investment, simply because the run-up in prices in virtual every coin. So now we have this big group of people who either bought a bunch of mining gear and got rich, who maybe held a lot of coins (almost anything) and became rich, and those who first invested into cryptocurrency (again almost anything) and become rich. So most of the people we see posting really never went through the bad times, they have only seen good times where almost any decision right or wrong has paid off since everything has went up so dramatically.

So now myself and a few others try to inject some reason into to all these "you can't lose money" type of posts but are just meant with ridicule and disdain. Yeah, everyone wants to party to keep going and easy money to keep flowing in, but at some point you really need to sit down, do the calculations, the real ones and not rosy "if the price shoots up I will be golden" type ones, and come to your own conclusions. Markets do have boom and bust cycles and mining follows along with that but also has unique dynamics all its own.

As I type this the mining difficulty for most popular coins continues to rise even with the recent downtrend in price. This means even if prices recover, the amount of coins a given hash-rate can produce will be less than it was in the past. So prices not only need to recover, they need to go up enough to offset the increase in difficulty that has occurred in the meantime. This would mean Ethereum would probably need to hit $500-$600 to even remotely return to recent mining profitability numbers. So eventually one way or another the mining glory days will come to a halt, either by a sustained market downtrend or after a complete saturation of network hash-rate.

Where I live secondary market cards are trash, people just want the new and best marketing card.


We cant say traders sold like the miners, traders don't need to pay electricity, miners do, so miners will always sell coins at whatever price is at moment cause they need the money to pay the electricity, now traders don't have that problem, they can hold much much much longer.

This is also disingenuous.  Traders also bought and sold at those price milestones as well.  Very few people actually bought in at $7 or less and held for long term.

Gamers will still buy GTX 10 cards.  The market will determine their value on the secondary market, and that price will fluctuate depending on how many miners are dumping to upgrade or to get out of mining completely.  Heck, gamers are still buying GTX 900 cards if the price is right, and they are up to 2 years old at this point.

This is a valid hypothetical scenario... but only one of a thousand different hypothetical scenarios.  What happens if you buy a coin, and it never goes back to the price that you bought it for?

Agreed, this is another reason that ROI estimates greater than 12 months are really unrealistic, in that new hardware will come out making the calculations even less likely to hold up over such a long period of time.

Most trolls think about now, reason you see many saying "my 1080 ti is awesome, i got my roi already!", all lies, that is what they do, brag lies, the only ones who got the roi many times were the traders. ETH before the pump was $7, 90% of miners sold at that price, 5% sold at $14, 3% sold at $28, 1% sold at $100, 0.01% sold at $400, see there you go hehe, traders got more than 2000%, miners got at most 120% if they come from the beginning which is march last year, new miners that started on april did not even get 30% of their roi hehe but they will tell you they did hehe

Last time gpu mining profitability went close to zero buying hash was really profitable. We'll see how it plays out this time.

...and you guys are not even taking into account that there will be GTX 11 generation next year. This will kill resell value and make your hashrate not competitive against GDDR6 etc.

But how about if in one year there in no longer any mining profit? Past ROIs of 3-4 months were not only fantastic opportunities, but they were also short enough to at least have some semblance of what the actual ROI period would be in real life. Even with a fudge factor built in to the predictions an extra month or two would not materially affect the miner's long-term plans.

But now that we are entering the phase of 12 month+ ROI forecasts, with some as long as 18 months to 2 years, even the calculations comes into question as there is no reliable way to predict that far out. So even if I am fine with spending $2400 today on a 6x RX580 rig that gets 180 Mhash/sec and nets (after electric) $5 a day, I do the math and say well 480 days is not so bad. There is no way that calculation is going to hold up for a 480 days period. Next month profit will most likely be down to $4 day, the month after maybe $3 a day, by the end of the year maybe it is $2/day.

So we have the following hypothetical example:
September - $5/day * 30 = $150 (I use the whole month to make it easier)
October - $4/day * 31 = $124
November - $3/day * 30 = $90
December - $2/day * 31 = $64

So a new miner who just invested $2400 in hardware might make $428 of that back by year's end.

So using your capital recovery argument, they see reason at that time and then liquidate their hardware assets. Well by then the GPU craze will be over and retail prices will be back to MSRP or even at a slight discount due to the (now flooding) used market. So that $2400 in hardware might only get $1200. But even if we are generous and say it is still worth $1600 used, we can add to it the $428 in profit and the investor only has $2028 to show for his $2400 investment, or a $372 loss, not counting the time and effort.

And yes, a massive increase in coin prices would push off the inevitable day of reckoning a little bit longer, but then we get back to the "better off to buy the coin directly" argument you do despise.