Topic: [PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela - page 60. (Read 28472 times)

Multi-millionaires... ok. So you're happy. That's the Venezuelan opposition leadership: a bunch of multi-millionaire mafia guys and coup plotters, some of them super rich educated in the US to serve them well, as they do.

If the petro is still meant to be an ERC20 token, this might be the contract:

https://etherscan.io/token/0x3341b14ea28a4627cd807d704fbb85ff51239775

(If not, it might be the contract they planned to use before the last minute changes to NEM.)

This is widely believed to be the NEM contract for at least presale:

http://explorer.ournem.com/#/s_account?account=NCGBBZKOTERO3EXMPPCNDNDXZQQJXBEMWWO7MB66

The white paper says:


In my understanding this says that the Petro will be on NEM. All references to ERC20 where extinguished from the white paper and replaced by references to NEM. (After the official launch of presale!) But the formulation is ambiguous and is compatible with the interpretation that only the presale toke will be on NEM. Also, as they changed the white paper after the official launch of presale without any explanation they might change it again. (Presale BTW didn't start yet in fact.)

The advantage for foreign investors is the possibility that the petro will profit from the crypto hype and therefore its price will increase well above the oil price. Add to this the support the government of Venezuela is giving to the petro through its well running propaganda machine and various ways of forcing the petro on the Venezuelan population and Venezuelan private and public companies as means of payment. The white paper states: "The State will actively assume the commitment to promote the adoption of Petro, encouraging the growth of its national and international user base." So far they are fulfilling this promise. With which success remains to be seen: There is up to now no public commitment of anybody outside of Venezuela to accept or use petros - for instance in international trade with Venezuela.

The price you pay is the much higher risk than that of an oil ETF:

• The government carefully avoided to implement any mechanism by which you could claim the international price of Venezuelan oil for your petros. For that reason the price of Venezuelan oil does not constitute a lower bond for the price of the petro, it might go well below. (There is a promise to accept petros for instance for tax payments in Venezuela. But there will apply a discount of at least 10% and this will apply to the price of oil in bolívares determined by a government set exchange rate.)
• In the newest versions of the white paper there is a promise not to increase the number of petros above the original 100 million but there is so far no technological guarantee. In earlier versions the possibility to add further petros was explicitly contemplated.
• The white paper speaks also about a discount during presale and part of the initial sale. But if you look at the actual contract they ask you to sign, you will find that there is no contractual obligation at all on the side of the Venezuelan government to give you such discount.
• If you are an American investor you might incur sanctions as forewarned by the US treasury (see https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_other.aspx#551 ).
• As all disputes are going go be decided by Venezuelan courts you can be assured not to be able to recover your investment if something goes wrong through the courts.

Which will be the advantage to own the Petro coin? If this will reflect the price of Venezual oil, wouldn't it be the same to just buy some oil ETF ?

And is it already on etherscan?

So is this going to be an ERC20 token or will it implement another ERC standard like ERC223?

No public record at all for this claim.


You are wrong:

http://runrun.es/rr-es-plus/319427/fotos-infografia-y-mapa-muertos-en-protestas-en-venezuela-parte-dos.html


Another one by PROVEA:

https://www.derechos.org.ve/actualidad/139-personas-fallecidas-en-contexto-de-manifestaciones-hasta-el-27-de-julio

Sentenced without any credible evidence:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/09/venezuela-sentence-against-opposition-leader-shows-utter-lack-of-judicial-independence/


None of them a billionaire. You are making this simply up without any evidence. There are at this moment only two Venezuelan billionaires on the Forbes list.

This report is a part of the work, as it has been given from the government to the Commission.
You are right, this is not an official, judicial truth: the report is based on media sources, but it's the most important research we have TODAY.
Actually this is the ONLY detailed research available on the deaths in 2017. Opposition media have always avoided to collect details (names, dates, circumstances), for obvious reasons.

The only other track record (death toll) was done by independent left-wing venezuelanalysis.com (but it is much less detailed): https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13081
This report is the "version of the government", but collects information from ANY media, and anyway it's not even the problem because these sources are only used to try to understand the circumstances or get basic details like names and dates.
This report details also ALL the people from the opposition that have been killed, obviously.

We perfectly know, you and I, that you don't care at all about the truth of the opposition guarimbas (criminal gangs) in Venezuela. You just hate and couldn't care less about democracy and people, so guarimbas, coups, fake news, foreign intervention is all good for you.
But the truth about opposition payed "guarimbas" (gangs) is terrorism, destruction and a bloodshed of many innocent people, as everybody knows.

Go on. Read the report.

I perfectly know you are a supporter of these anti-democratic, wealthy people, who are in many (most) cases criminals.

Enrique Capriles (last opposition Presidential candidate) is a billionaire.
Leopoldo Lopez, US educated criminal arrested for inciting murder and violence that led to the death of 40 people, comes from a billionaire family.
Pedro Carmona, the non-elected president illegally appointed after the 2002 military coup, is a billionaire who escaped to Colombia.
María Corina Machado and others...

The whole Venezuelan ultra-corrupted, wealthy oligarchy forms the leadership of the US funded opposition.

Baseless defamations and nonsense ("mostly led by billionaires").


This report isn't part of the work of the so called "Truth Commission" of the Constituent Assembly and it is not based on information coming from relatives and witnesses. It is a "journalistic investigation" (!)  written and published by the "Ministry of Communication and Information" based on publicly available communications of official sources and information gathered from social and traditional media. (To a large part media presenting the government's point of view.) The report presents the version of the government and doesn't possess the impartiality one would expect from the work of a true Truth Commission.

Until the 70s Venezuela has been the first oil producer in the world. It was a US gas station, and it's still worth trillions and trillions. Not only in oil: it's a massive source (among first in the planet) of wealth in gas, gold, diamonds, key metals and water. When Saudi Arabia became more strategic for US/UK economy, Venezuela's production became less important and got reduced.

The potential is there. PDVSA, oil company, only needs to be put in conditions to use new resources for investments. This is just a matter of time: Venezuela won't rely on the US anymore and is totally transforming its financial and productive strategies. Their relations with Russia and China is very strong and it's going to grow even more after the sanctions, both in import and export (military, energy, technology). Once the governments in the region change side, which can happen anytime, Venezuela will have strong partners there too again.

It's a country that will not surrender and will surprise many in the coming years.

I think the Petro is only one of the surprises.

My take on Maduro (simplified)

Maduro CAN be trusted. He is in my opinion one of the few trustworthy political leaders in the world, like Chavez. Both have humble origins and grew a very strong conscience of honesty and social justice. Maduro has been a worker, union leader and political activist almost all his life before joining Chavez administration. Their political base is very strong, diverse and large: millions of people, hundreds of supporting political and social organisations, thousands of communities and a long experience of fighting, administering and organising under endless aggressions and violence. Maduro is not a TV marketing product: his position is strongly rooted in the democratic Venezuelan society. He's beloved and trusted by millions of people in Venezuela, who know very well the character assassination he's been victim of in the media.

Of course people can disagree on his qualities as a man and leader, or his policies (if they know what they're talking about which is rare), but there's one thing nobody can honestly disagree: Maduro has been misrepresented, smeared by the opposition media like nobody else in recent history, with blatant lies, unsubstantiated delirious stories or misleading and manipulated information 24/7.

Also, Maduro was elected in 2013 and has shown a surprising resilience and bravery during one of the most violent and lasting attacks a country has ever seen from the US empire (excluding horrendous wars like Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Syria etc). Everybody was convinced he was done by the end of 2015, when he lost the legislative elections. But they recovered trust. His consistency in working for the peace and the people of Venezuela (keeping and extending social support during the crisis) is remarkable. People saw the difference between Maduro's commitment for peace and opposition criminal, opportunistic violence to create the chaos and overthrow the elected government through a coup. He is also well known for his international diplomatic experience (he was foreign minister for many years), always open to dialogue with all political forces and opponents, very good strategist.

The representation of Maduro you get on the media is a laughable racist caricature. He's represented as an idiot. And he's clearly not, which makes opposition people (and many Americans and Europeans) go crazy.

If you want to trust a politician today, that's Maduro. He's putting his life at risk, he has nothing to lose but defend the sovereignty of the country and work for its economic transformation and recovery. The Petro is a very new project, and he's not personally in charge (it's full of technicalities), but I'm quite sure he's putting a lot of hope on it and will do what he can to make it successful.

Efficient extraction, production, refinement and transportation are the difficult parts to the sale process.   Venezuela has many reserves but I'm not so sure of the magnitude to economically viable reserves and what percentage to the big potential they have.
This viability varies on the global oil price itself so its hard to say and then it also relys on efficient movement and the quality of the oil that can be extracted as well.  Some oil is favoured over other types, some must have sulphur removed from it.  I believe heavy oil is less in demand then light sweet oil and so on.  The industry knows these details matters, the sanctions also play a part is discouraging and reducing demand and so the effective price Venezuela can get in trade.

Ideally anyone who wants to trade Petro would also have an idea of the oil situation and potential demand for this specific type of oil and where its placed in the world as I guess that'd weigh in on the crypto currency if they do really have a relationship in the market

thank you for your answer. I give you 1 merit!
So, more or less, they want to "sell" 82 millions barrel of oil!

I don't know how many barrels they have in their underground, but i suppose 50-80 billions, so 82 millions is not so much.

Maduro can't be trusted, but what happening can have a large impact in the crypto world

Sadly, most of the Venezuelan middle class is a poor man's surrogate of the average American. This is typical for a Latin American oil rich country that has been de-facto colonised by the US since the beginning of 1900: Venezuelan elites are the oligarchy that has served the US for many decades. They've controlled the governments and all institutions until 1998. Mostly white, some heirs of the Spanish colonialists, used to be in position of privilege compared to the vast majority of the population, ignorant, lazy, racist, violent, anti-socialist fanatics, dreaming a world of white people spending their lives in shopping centres and consuming like Americans and Europeans, without caring about the social and cultural context they live in. The US funded opposition represents these categories, their privilege, and is mostly led (not surprisingly) by billionaires. Some of these leaders control large portions of the private industry and media (mostly TVs and newspapers), some are criminals who have dealt with arms traffic, coup plots, terrorism, violent gangs, corruption etc. They have always been the local representatives of the US interests in Venezuela.

In this thread we can see a good example of that culture: they speak English, some live abroad, and hate the chavistas more than anything else. They are the result of 20 years of frustration and hate, lost elections, failed coups, failed sabotages of any kind etc. For some, this anti-chavista hate is what their families have taught them since they were born. Everything that comes from chavistas is bad because they are not only socialists and often poor workers, they are also guilty of not being enslaved, like them, and guilty of being smart and part of democratic communities, unlike them.

The difference between a chavista demonstration and an opposition demonstration is the happiness and the music: chavistas dance, sing, laugh (CNN won't show you that) while the others are hysterical, insult, sometimes violent (what you see on CNN).

This is part of the report collecting information on the victims of US funded opposition gangs violence in 2017 (do you remember the images of people throwing molotovs to the police?): it happened between April and August, with lower intensity until September. In this period 172 people were killed, most of them by opposition gangs, also with horrendous methods like lynching and burning people alive.

This report is part of the work of a commission created by the Constituent Assembly in August 2017: the Truth Commission, an investigative body that is collecting information from ALL the relatives of the victims and witnesses, to establish reparation programs and the truth. It was published by the Ministry of Communication in this form, a few months ago. Obviously, international media have totally ignored it.

FATAL VICTIMS OF POLITICAL VIOLENCE
172 people killed between APRIL – SEPTEMBER 2017

REPORT (PDF, 595 pages): http://minci.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Investigaci%C3%B3n-Period%C3%ADstica-V%C3%ADctimas-Fatales-de-la-Violencia-Pol%C3%ADtica-ABRIL-SEPTIEMBRE-2017-Actualizado-15-09-17-CORREGIDO.pdf

Article (Spanish): http://minci.gob.ve/2018/01/ministerios-entregaron-informe-danos-guarimbas-comision-la-verdad/

This is the national context of social conflict the Petro was born: this and two decades of propaganda explain the hate against the Petro we read here.