Pricing everyday items in SATs | Bitcointalksearch.org

CrowdforAngels

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Quote from: teosanru on October 18, 2019, 02:00:16 PM

Quote

It's much difficult than you think because we either need a digital price tagger or a whole bunch of price tags to change everyday considering the volatility of bitcoin. As a matter of fact BTC was around 11k when you made this post an is now around 8k which means a sudden 30% fall in the prices. So if we make the price tags on things in terms of sats and we don't update them daily. You might end up getting 30% hit on your revenues and remember when you think that it would happen both way around that customers won't bother to spend more money just because they want to pay in BTC there are a hell lot of shops around the corner and if prices go 30% then you will face loss of customers too. So basically first incomes need to be in BTC only then we can have our prices in BTC,

I'd agree with you there, with more adoption, hopefully, price stability will come!

CrowdforAngels

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on October 18, 2019, 03:57:27 PM

My opinion is that the satoshi isn't worth enough for it to be used as the main unit of account for transactions at the minute, you don't need to divide prices that finely. I do like the bit (100 satoshis) as a unit of account, at the current price of ~$8000 USD/BTC that means that one bit is worth around 0.8 cents. That's a perfectly reasonable quantity to use. mBTC on the other hand is worth too much at $8 a pop to be used as a unit of account in transactions.

Paying for something that costs $0.20 USD in a shop (e.g. a cheap sweet in a 1st world country or something more substantial in a 3rd world country) could either cost you 0.025 mBTC, 25 bits or 2,500 sat. I think it's pretty easy to see there that the simplest unit to work with is the bit, it's valuable enough that most of the time the numbers you work with aren't going to get awkwardly small or annoyingly large.

Thanks for the example using Bit, it helps create meaning and certainly if you went into a shop now and saw a chocolate bar for 25 bit, its certainly more relatable than 2,500 Sat.

On that note though, what do you think of the word 'Bit' as a currency?

DiamondCardz

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My opinion is that the satoshi isn't worth enough for it to be used as the main unit of account for transactions at the minute, you don't need to divide prices that finely. I do like the bit (100 satoshis) as a unit of account, at the current price of ~$8000 USD/BTC that means that one bit is worth around 0.8 cents. That's a perfectly reasonable quantity to use. mBTC on the other hand is worth too much at $8 a pop to be used as a unit of account in transactions.

Paying for something that costs $0.20 USD in a shop (e.g. a cheap sweet in a 1st world country or something more substantial in a 3rd world country) could either cost you 0.025 mBTC, 25 bits or 2,500 sat. I think it's pretty easy to see there that the simplest unit to work with is the bit, it's valuable enough that most of the time the numbers you work with aren't going to get awkwardly small or annoyingly large.

teosanru

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Quote from: CrowdforAngels on August 15, 2019, 10:54:27 AM

I am of the opinion (my own of course) that for greater adoption, that we need to start pricing in SATs

Can of Coke (X) SATs
Meal in a nice restaurant (X) SATs
Rocket for moon (X) SATs + me

Bitcoin is on the up and buying a can of coke for 0.000096, gives the shop keeper a hard time - but with SATs that would be 9,600 Sats (or 9.6k - casual writing) - which, whilst in the UK might look like hyper-inflation Makes it easier for the shop keeper and consumer-friendly.

I'm sure this has been talked about at length - you can just point me there.

It's much difficult than you think because we either need a digital price tagger or a whole bunch of price tags to change everyday considering the volatility of bitcoin. As a matter of fact BTC was around 11k when you made this post an is now around 8k which means a sudden 30% fall in the prices. So if we make the price tags on things in terms of sats and we don't update them daily. You might end up getting 30% hit on your revenues and remember when you think that it would happen both way around that customers won't bother to spend more money just because they want to pay in BTC there are a hell lot of shops around the corner and if prices go 30% then you will face loss of customers too. So basically first incomes need to be in BTC only then we can have our prices in BTC,

Mike Mayor

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mbtc is much better since it is inbetween. 1/1000 is very easy. 100k satoshi is a nice amount and easy to see. 0.1mbtc is $0.80 for example. 10 mbtc is 0.01 btc. Very easy.
Some of the other people here have said satoshi is good for fees and it is. For fees a small demonisation works best. Just like how bytes kb mb gb tb work.

Quote from: Artemis3 on August 30, 2019, 04:55:51 AM

Quote from: TimeBits on August 30, 2019, 02:50:10 AM

Well there is well over 80 trillion fiat in circulation.

So let`s say .000000000000000000000000000000001 for a coke

No fool, a coke is like 10 thousand satoshi. Quite simple, come live under hyperinflation to see where your value of things in time end (which Dietrich suggested before getting kicked for supporting the "wrong" person).

FYI 10 thousand satoshi is simply 0.00010000 or 0.0001 BTC. Is that 0.1 mBTC? I don't even know, i also refuse to use that.

If you know then why do you ask? Huh

Casdinyard

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Quote from: Artemis3 on August 30, 2019, 04:55:51 AM

FYI 10 thousand satoshi is simply 0.00010000 or 0.0001 BTC. Is that 0.1 mBTC? I don't even know, i also refuse to use that.

Haha 0.1 mBTC is actually confusing.

Tbh, I prefer to read 0.0001 mbtc than 10k satoshis, I don't know but reading it on decimals is much easier. Or maybe if this value had become our norm of daily spending then we get be all used to it.

Quote from: CrowdforAngels on August 30, 2019, 02:39:01 AM

I would love a physical representation of Bitcoin and I'm sure over the years, i've seen the coins that have a QR code basically stamped on them.

Nah, obviously people don't want anymore to carry some coins and will prefer to have the QR code to be scan on machine and on their phone as well.

Kyraishi

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I think the current pricing system is fine right now, no one wants to use 10,000's of any currency to buy a coke can, it's just too confusing and annoying.

I could see a world where pricing in satas would be possible, but I reckon it'll only work if transactions fees where completely removed.

MBTC is another pretty popular valuation, I see it on a bunch of gambling sites and personally use it for electrum.

Eugenar

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Quote from: CrowdforAngels on August 15, 2019, 10:54:27 AM

I am of the opinion (my own of course) that for greater adoption, that we need to start pricing in SATs

Can of Coke (X) SATs
Meal in a nice restaurant (X) SATs
Rocket for moon (X) SATs + me

Bitcoin is on the up and buying a can of coke for 0.000096, gives the shop keeper a hard time - but with SATs that would be 9,600 Sats (or 9.6k - casual writing) - which, whilst in the UK might look like hyper-inflation Makes it easier for the shop keeper and consumer-friendly.

I'm sure this has been talked about at length - you can just point me there.

[/quote

in terms of implementing your idea on our country, we have some factors to consider, first, the sector for taxation needs to be settled first in order to set some price in bitcoin, another thing is that, bitcoin's market price is so much in a state of flux and volatile. In this case, there should be a standard of pricing calculator that will monitor each and every product.

blckhawk

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I don't agree on that idea, not yet. I understand that you want to cancel out all those zeroes for those miniscule amounts of money. But if you made satoshi's as labels for product prices based on their values, you'll have a hard time constantly updating its label every price pump or dip. And you won't even use satoshi, you'll need to use mbtc at least. Satoshis are too small to even represent a dollar. Imagine having label to a coke for 0.12 mbtc, then 4 hours later you would update to 0.10mbtc.

A more viable option is to label them still with local fiat, for example, USD, and then have them the option to pay that exact amount as btc. In that way, you don't have to update labels but can still use btc to transact.

Mandoy

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I agree with that we should start using satoshi since it is easy to understand. Unlike microbtc and millibtc , satoshi is much easy to read and even the children whom I taught how to collect btc in faucets have an easy time understanding satoshi compared to milli and microbtc. I also believe that 1 satoshi will reach 1 dollar each in the future thus we should start using it now.

Artemis3

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Quote from: TimeBits on August 30, 2019, 02:50:10 AM

Well there is well over 80 trillion fiat in circulation.

So let`s say .000000000000000000000000000000001 for a coke

No fool, a coke is like 10 thousand satoshi. Quite simple, come live under hyperinflation to see where your value of things in time end (which Dietrich suggested before getting kicked for supporting the "wrong" person).

FYI 10 thousand satoshi is simply 0.00010000 or 0.0001 BTC. Is that 0.1 mBTC? I don't even know, i also refuse to use that.

TimeBits

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Well there is well over 80 trillion fiat in circulation.

So let`s say .000000000000000000000000000000001 for a coke

CrowdforAngels

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Quote from: Sharon121212 on August 23, 2019, 03:59:59 PM

Don't be faster than your shadows mate don't see pricing of goods in satoshi happening soon. And would the purchase with satoshi only be online? Or would there be a physical bitcoin currency?
Because countries for example in the Third World still actively prefers off line purchase to online

Your right, infrastructure is a huge problem. Even when I'm in China, you need card or wechat pay for the cities and then cash for the outlying regions.

I would love a physical representation of Bitcoin and I'm sure over the years, i've seen the coins that have a QR code basically stamped on them.

Artemis3

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Quote from: bitart on August 23, 2019, 03:37:40 PM

Quote from: CrowdforAngels on August 21, 2019, 05:44:44 AM

...

I guess the 2 axioms for this conversation are the location (because culturally we handle numbers differently) and value (because items do not have a uniformed price).

I might try and build an index for the prices of goods and use location search tool to offer some flexibility.

OK, got it now.
Maybe you can use the exchange rate of each nation's fiat compared to USD when you want to determine how does the location change the way each nation handle large or small numbers. Usually if the exchange rate of a nation's fiat (compared to the USD) is somewhat equal (like EUR/USD, which is around 1,1 or something similar) that nation will use similar number format (few decimals).
If 1 USD compared to a different nation's fiat equals e.g. 500 fiat, that would mean that should use more decimals when they think about bitcoin compared to the others who use USD as a base for that calculation.

About 100 Yen is 1 USD (its more like 110 but whatever) so this means the japanese coin doesn't need to use cents, as 1 cent is about 1 yen.
About 1000 Won is USD, so add that zero for South Koreans. One upon a time i bought something for 15 Won, which means 0.15¢. Now try to imagine prices stated with decimals, when talking about cents, not US Dollars, then you might understand my issue. The fact that i just told you 0.15¢ is absurd in itself, for an American... Think what mBTC does, the exact same thing.

Sharon121212

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Don't be faster than your shadows mate don't see pricing of goods in satoshi happening soon. And would the purchase with satoshi only be online? Or would there be a physical bitcoin currency?
Because countries for example in the Third World still actively prefers off line purchase to online

bitart

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Vires in Numeris

Quote from: CrowdforAngels on August 21, 2019, 05:44:44 AM

...

I guess the 2 axioms for this conversation are the location (because culturally we handle numbers differently) and value (because items do not have a uniformed price).

I might try and build an index for the prices of goods and use location search tool to offer some flexibility.

OK, got it now.
Maybe you can use the exchange rate of each nation's fiat compared to USD when you want to determine how does the location change the way each nation handle large or small numbers. Usually if the exchange rate of a nation's fiat (compared to the USD) is somewhat equal (like EUR/USD, which is around 1,1 or something similar) that nation will use similar number format (few decimals).
If 1 USD compared to a different nation's fiat equals e.g. 500 fiat, that would mean that should use more decimals when they think about bitcoin compared to the others who use USD as a base for that calculation.

CrowdforAngels

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Quote from: bitart on August 19, 2019, 05:14:16 PM

I thought that this thread would be a some kind of new 'Big Mac Index' to compare some countries' prices on a common and well known subject, but not in USD but in BTC
But it seems that the topic has changed and now it's everything about using Sats instead of BTC, and nothing about the prices of the coke, restaurant, rocket, etc...
Or I just misunderstood something and this was just to propagate using Sats to calculate prices?

Actually, you're on the money,

We are trying to come up with the best way to price everyday items and how this could then be communicated. There is a bit of a discussion around BTC, SAT, mBTC, etc and what works in the majority of countries.

I guess the 2 axioms for this conversation are the location (because culturally we handle numbers differently) and value (because items do not have a uniformed price).

I might try and build an index for the prices of goods and use location search tool to offer some flexibility.

Artemis3

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Quote from: Herbet Fry on August 15, 2019, 05:38:27 PM

Mbtc is the best one. 1 btc is 100 btc cents and 1mbtc is 1/10 of a btc cent. That isn't very hard to understand now is it? saying 145000 satoshi is silly when you can just say 1.45mtc using 0.00145000 is even worse.

Quote from: Artemis3 on August 15, 2019, 11:50:02 AM

Quote from: CrowdforAngels on August 15, 2019, 10:54:27 AM

I am of the opinion (my own of course) that for greater adoption, that we need to start pricing in SATs

Can of Coke (X) SATs
Meal in a nice restaurant (X) SATs
Rocket for moon (X) SATs + me

Bitcoin is on the up and buying a can of coke for 0.000096, gives the shop keeper a hard time - but with SATs that would be 9,600 Sats (or 9.6k - casual writing) - which, whilst in the UK might look like hyper-inflation Makes it easier for the shop keeper and consumer-friendly.

I'm sure this has been talked about at length - you can just point me there.

About 12 thousand
About 200 thousand
No idea, we don't really launch rockets.

Our garbage coin is currently 1.5 per satoshi, so its kinda easy to give you those answers.

In your example your can is 96 hundred, as expected from a country with a sane economy you have a bit lower prices due to better competition and free market.

Quote from: CrowdforAngels on August 15, 2019, 11:36:58 AM

Vote then,

If you walked into a shop and there was a can of coke for sale, what would you prefer to pay

a) 9,600 SAT b) 0.096 mBTC or c) 9.6k SAT

I vote a of course, b is nonsense no matter what the USD/EUR centrists say.

so mbtc is nonesense but saying 96 hundred is ok? 1mbtc is a 1/10 of a bitcoin how is that difficult?

Yes, because that DOT introduces confusion, while 96 hundred is clear and concise. There are many countries that don't bother with decimals at all, and even Europe used to have those.

bitart

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Vires in Numeris

I thought that this thread would be a some kind of new 'Big Mac Index' to compare some countries' prices on a common and well known subject, but not in USD but in BTC
But it seems that the topic has changed and now it's everything about using Sats instead of BTC, and nothing about the prices of the coke, restaurant, rocket, etc...
Or I just misunderstood something and this was just to propagate using Sats to calculate prices?

CrowdforAngels

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Quote from: carter34 on August 19, 2019, 07:53:52 AM

I was to say is going to be difficult to understand and interpreted to the customer's understanding but it can start from somewhere. Things are not learnt in just a day, if the process starts, then more people will key into it and it goes on like that till a huge adoption starts. Since some cryptocurrency are also being used to purchase products already.

Well this is why it would be good to have a basket of goods priced in SATs - if you could navigate to a website and see the top 50 items priced in SAT and updated daily it would help adoption.

Maybe thats a working project for the good of the cause.

Topic: Pricing everyday items in SATs (Read 495 times)