Topic: Privacy Questions: Public Servers, TOR, VPN, etc. (Read 495 times)

DireWolfM14

When I have a little time, I will study carefully your thread.

When I have LOT of time, I'll look really hard look at Umbrel, hardware and related software.

Hey guys, I hope this helps: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61534478

I am likely in a very similar situation to OROBTC in some ways, at least in the sense that I don't want to do very much at this time.  It seems that anything that I do takes a lot of time, and even last year when I kept telling myself that I should start to use lightning network and try to fit in the use (and learning of lightning network) at some time, it took me nearly half of the year before I finally put some money on BlueWallet.. and of course, CashApp had incorporated some lighting abilities in the last year too, but still some might suggest that these kinds of abilities to spend and use lightning (even though surely mostly custodial - even from my understanding there may be some ways to set up BlueWallet as non-custodial if you have your own lightning node) are not really using or knowing about lightning network because the ONLY thing that I accomplished in a whole year is to be able to use a couple of different lightning custodial services/wallets.

Part of my point is that I tend to be really slow to add new things to my already existing practices, and sometimes I am reluctant to disclose my own limited number of things that I am doing related to bitcoin - or to suggest possible vulnerabilities that I might have in terms of the places in which I hold my coins or how I might diversify my locations or possibly lessen some of my risks in regards to storage and/or transacting...

Probably, if I felt myself to be more stationary I would have experimented with some of the bitcoin node matters or even mining way earlier, and my understanding is that lightning node is even more difficult than regular bitcoin node issues, so surely if any node were to come it would be to start with a regular node before even going down the lightning node route.

Ever since I got into bitcoin (in late 2013), part of my goal was to be able to be able to have options to transact in bitcoin when mobile.. or when moving from place to place, even if I might have been attempting to maintain some base locations.. and surely 2013 projections of what I would be doing may well differ from what I ended up doing, but some of the goals of trying to retain and maintain some mobile abilities has not disappeared, even if sometimes I have been stuck in one location for considerable amounts of time.  

In some sense, I personally have been disinclined to set up some kind of a node at my base location and to communicate back and forth through something like that even when mobile, because it seems like a step too far in terms of what I want to do or how I want to spend my time ... or that I am going to get sucked into trying to do stuff in which I don't want to be spending very much time doing (because there are ONLY so many hours in each day)... because it is enough for me to merely just be juggling around with various bitcoin user-interfaces in the way that I currently do, and keeping track of coins and even just making sure that I have backups for various set ups that I have tried to employ and that sometimes may well be geographically separate (even if the set ups might have times in which they are geographically together too, depending on where I am at.. and then having to rethink some of these matters from time to time because just keeping coins safe and even considering potential successor type issues can take a lot of time and efforts.. just what I consider to be some of the basics, like that)..

Part of my thinking with the Mac was that when I travel I tend to have a couple of computers, and the Mac is a back-up to my main computer.., so my back up Mac is not really being used on a regular basis, but I don't really feel like I should have it set up in a way that it is running some other kind of operating system.

Yes, the back up may not be doing much of anything except maybe running to show some BTC prices or maybe some rudimentary types of back up search that I might do on it from time to time or that I might hand it over to someone to use on another guest log-in on a temporary basis.  

So in that sense, I want my back up Mac to run something close to the same Mac software that I run on my primary computer in case my primary computer breaks down or has to go in for repair, but at the same time, I was thinking that the back up computer might be able to run node software... and perhaps even be a way to connect a Trezor to the back up computer so that I don't have to go through Trezor's server in order to access the coins on my Trezor.. or some other variation of accessing coins in that kind of a way.. but it is not like I want to be able to do that or to learn about all of those kinds of things at one time anyhow, even though I have been thinking about those kinds of things.. but still ONLY having only a little amount of time that I might add one change or another.. but with my back up Mac I have a 2 TB SSD, so maybe having 1 TB out of the 2 TB SSD available for running a node might still be o.k. .and then if my primary computer were to break down, then I could still use my backup, but at that time, I would probably shut the node software off while using it as a backup (then as a primary.. since my primary would be out of service).. or at least not run the bitcoin node software if I were to be temporarily using that back up computer as a primary.  

In my years of using Macs, I have found that they don't seem to break down too often, but with anything they do sometimes break down or have periods in which they cannot be used and may take a week or two to repair if they need some kind of servicing... which the backup computer comes in handy.. and sometimes a burden to lug around when traveling for a few months at a time, but I do sometimes engage in those kinds of activities to travel and to travel too heavily and to have my back-up with me while traveling, even if I don't seem to have to use it too often. .it is still nice to have, overall... and could serve as a node during that period that it is not really being used, extensively.

I am also familiar with the idea that some things are not as difficult as they might seem to be, but it is still the case that sometimes it is not easy for any of us (mere mortals) to add something new onto our schedules.  

For example, for the past 6 months or so, I have had a plan to go on a two month or more long trip that should be easy to accomplish, but I have not gone on such trip since I had some things that I felt that I needed to put into place prior to going on such trip (because I thought that the trip would be at least a couple of months, and things need to be in an adequate order before booking such a long trip), so it has already been several months that my trip has been delayed and delayed and more delayed and frustratingly delayed merely because it can take a while to set things up in order to feel sufficiently comfortable and not feeling any need to come back either, so sometimes I consider that all I need is to add more work for myself in terms of adding some other project of setting up a bitcoin node at home, even if in theory that it would not take very long to accomplish.. but still I would have to fit in such new project.. so how many hours are there in the day. .don't I need to sleep?  How is that going to happen if I am already having a delay in a trip that I have been thinking about for half a year but still not able to make my travel reservations because I don't have all of my "other shit" sufficiently together in order to feel comfortable with leaving for a couple of months or even in a kind of indefinitely longer status.

By the way, I had heard that the Embassy presents itself as a kind of plug and play node device that can do quite a few things and even be set up at home while a person is traveling.. but even the Embassy people describe that the Embassy device is not exactly plug and play and can take a bit of time to get comfortable with some of the set up and some of the interactions that might be made through such a device, and that all sounds fine and dandy as something that could be added by more and more regular (normies) people (including yours truly, and perhaps even OROBTC? - hate to speak for him).. in the future.

Absolutely! These are generally referred to as a "node in a box". You buy the box, plug it in, and you have a node. You could look at MyNode as an example. But all of these kinds of things bring a price which is far higher than if you just set up a node yourself.

There are lots of very newbie friendly Linux distros which do not require any command line stuff to set up and run. I would suggest looking at Ubuntu and Linux Mint. Both have GUIs which will feel very familiar to most people. And of course Bitcoin Core itself can be run entirely from the GUI.

I have a separate device for running my node (as I suspect most people do), but there's nothing stopping you from running a node on your main device.

I would still say just give it a go. If you get half way through and throw your hands up in frustration, then you've lost nothing and at least you can say you tried.

...

o_e_l_e_o

Yes, JJG pretty much nails my situation.  I may very well have enough spare computer horsepower around, and I agree with you that learning by doing (and asking for help when stumped) is a valid learning method, even for an older guy like me.

Computer learning curves have always been steep for me, starting when I was in college decades ago...

I have found the community is indeed very open to helping out the less technically inclined guys like me.  I have learned a lot here.

I am not sure whether I should say anything - but in some sense, I believe that I am relating to OROBTC in the sense that he seems to be wanting something that is more of a kind of plug and play solution, if there is such a thing, even though it does not hurt to continue to learn and to see what other forum members are saying on these kinds of ease of use topics.

When you suggest to get an old laptop and to install and run Linux on it, I am already scared away.  Maybe it is easy peasy to run Linux, but when I personally think of easy peasy, I prefer GUI interfaces.. and yeah.. I know that is kind of stupid... because any of us should be able to NOT get scared away when we have a command window in front of us... but I am sure that many folks get scared off as soon as they consider that they might have to type in a command rather than click on a button... or to choose from a list of buttons. 

What if I have an old Mac and I want to run some variation of MacOS 12.x software on it? but to run a node from that? 

Running bitcoin core might not be a bad idea, right?  But do I have to remove other software from that Mac.. what if I still want to use that Mac as a back up.. can I also use it as a kind of node too? 

Trade-offs with that? I suppose..  but some folks (even in bitcoinlandia, and even some folks who have mostly held their own private keys for quite a while) ONLY use Macs even though it's kind of dumb and there are various centralization trust issues with the closed apple ecosystem... but it tends to be easier for some folks who feel that they do not have time to be studying a lot of different computer-related language thingies and maybe just learning through something like the Mac/apple closed system - including it's various tradeoffs, that might be what some folks are willing to juggle.. not exactly speaking on behalf of OROBTC, but maybe attempting to suggest a framework in which I can relate.. I am not totally unwilling to learn, but I prefer to have something kind of GUI based.. and then like you say, hands on one step at a time that might lure me in but not necessarily require me to have to front-load a lot of learning time but just based on some of my basic knowledge that does not tend to involve command lines.

I would say that the best way to learn is simply to try it. You don't need to spend any bitcoin (or any other money) or set up any wallets holding actual bitcoin in order to install Linux on an old device, set up Core, run Electrum or Sparrow, etc., and just get a feel for how they all work and interact. The best way to learn is by doing! Once you've played around with the software for a while, then you can commit a tiny amount of bitcoin to try the actual send/receive functions, or alternatively run everything on testnet and practice for free.

All of the software you have mentioned - Linux, Core, Sparrow, Electrum - have extensive set up guides and documentation, as well as a very helpful online community here which can assist with any troubleshooting.

...

Hey mates!  Thank you all again for your suggestions on increasing privacy for us relatively beginner Bitcoiners!   I just noted that I had been hoarding merits, so I decided to spread some holiday cheer around for everyone.  (Although I have been noticing at "The Social Club" (Wall Observer) that meriting has become controversial..)  <-- WTF?  What do we have to do, call in the lawyers...?  Yeesh.

* * *

Maybe next thread start I will ask how this can be done easily (explained in language that even my three-and-a-half year old grandson could understand).  I still am not ready for various next steps (my own node, Bitcoin Core, Sparrow wallet, Linux, hardware requirements, etc.) because I don't know enough about them, and they seem daunting.

Please accept my Best Wishes for a Happy 2023.  

But no option to import an individual address or private key. I even tried making a watch only wallet in Electrum containing individual addresses (rather than from an xpub) and importing that Electrum file to Sparrow, but it returned an error about an invalid wallet type.

Are you sure that you are using the latest version of Sparrow wallet version 1.7.1?
There are several options to import mnemonic words(BIP39), Electrum import, and Master Private Key (BIP32),
I didn't try import function myself, but if that doesn't work in your case than you can try contacting Sparrow devs or write an issue on their github page.

I really like how clean and simple Spparow wallet is, but it's not perfect and there are some things I don't like that needs to be fixed.
In one case I connected hardware wallet with Sparrow and later I wanted to delete this connection, but that was impossible to do.

I installed LND, boltz-lnd, and loopd on my secondary server, with RTL as the frontend.  So it's not that I don't have the ability or tools, but given Lightning's "experimental" nature, I don't like opening channels with more than about $50 worth of bitcoin at a time.  Maybe I'm just being paranoid.  


That is definitely one of the drawbacks of Sparrow Wallet.  I'm not sure why the developers don't incorporate the ability to import single private keys.  The dialogue page for creating or importing a new "software" wallet only provides the ability to import a Bip39 mnemonic phrase, a master private key for an HD wallet, or a wallet created with an Electrum seed phrase.  A note about the Electrum wallets:  You can't import an Electrum seed directly, you have to create a wallet file in Electrum and import the file.  Yet another drawback, is that you can't export single private keys.

Sparrow is a decent wallet for beginners; it has a great UI, has a simple blockchain explorer built in, and for those who use coinjoin, it does have Samourai incorporated.  But, for those of us who want advanced controls it does lack quite few features.

Yes. I've tried importing both individual private keys and addresses into Sparrow, and it won't do it.

Ahh, I haven't tried importing individual private keys in to Sparrow yet. Do you run in to the same problem as I did above trying to import individual addresses to a watch only wallet - i.e. you can't do it?

If high fees is the concern, you can just open up a channel with Robosats: https://lightningnetwork.plus/nodes/0282eb467bc073833a039940392592bf10cf338a830ba4e392c1667d7697654c7e. Otherwise, use Bisq (which might come more cheap for large amounts).

I confirm that I still need Electrum to use ChipMixer. 

Yeah. I've only really tinkered with Sparrow as opposed to using it as a proper wallet yet (mostly because I see no reason to mess with all my various cold storage wallets which have caused me no issue for many years), but I was pretty impressed with just how easy it was to link it to my node. I've not used Sparrow enough nor examined the code enough to start recommending it like I do with Electrum, but it certainly seems like a strong contender on the privacy front since, as you say, it does away with the need to configure and run an Electrum server.

The only thing so far that I didn't like about Sparrow (or maybe I just couldn't figure out how to do it) was to create a watch only wallet involving individual addresses like you can do on Electrum. It seemed the only way to create a watch only wallet on Sparrow was via an xpub or similar, and therefore impossible to have addresses from different wallets in the same watch only wallet.

That's a pretty good idea for small amounts of change, but I don't like sending large amounts through lightning.


That's one of the things I like most about Sparrow.  If you have an unpruned core running, you don't need an SPV server at all.   Sparrow can connect it directly to core, no need to set up additional software or jeopardize your privacy.

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Given how simple it is to set some of the "one-click" node operating systems out there, everyone who care's about his privacy should be doing it.  I played with Umbrel over Debian for a while, and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to use and by the number of available options.

I did get a bit disillusioned with Umbrel while I was traveling not long ago, but that's more an issue of me (and my servers) living behind CGNAT.  I normally don't need to SSH into my servers from outside my house, but I figured it'd be better to have the ability just in case.  Rather than teach myself to set up a personal VPN on a private cloud server, I chose to use Tailscale and since it was so easy to set it up through Umbrel, that's what I did.  Normally I would shy away from a centralized service like Tailscale, but I was short on time preparing for my trip.  While I was away Docker and Umbrel released updates which broke my server, and since tailscale was running in a docker container I couldn't SSH into the confounded thing.  Had I installed Tailscale through the Debian package manager I wouldn't have had that issue...  Live and learn.  Luckily it wasn't enough to ruin the trip, I do have a backup server because that's how I roll.

Running your own infrastructure is the only way you'll be able to guarantee privacy. You don't have too worry about security so much, since everything on the network has to sort of conform to the security protocols put in place, however privacy on the other hand could potentially be compromised at several points in the process.

However, whether it's worth running your own node really begs the question on who or what don't you want your personal identifiable information reaching? If it's the government, it's likely a wasted effort. If you just want to follow good practices, and reduce the chances of multiple parties gaining this information, then sure get your own node up.

There's is an additional convenience compromise when you decide to run your own node, and only connect to that node though. That's including, and not limited too the maintenance of that. Sometimes you can run into problems with your own hardware, failing hard drives etc. Somewhat rare though, the other problem is you're then solely relying on the internet connection of where your node is connected, and the initial cost of setting it up. Since the Blockchain isn't small, and you'll likely want a full copy of it rather than a partial node; it'll be rather expensive to get that equipment if you haven't already got it.

Run your own full node behind TOR, run your own electrum sever behind TOR, only connect to your own node.

With the availability of all the pre-configured setups it's no longer that difficult. And with the supply chain shortages and such no longer causing stupid high prices in more parts of the world it's no longer a large expense.

A $100 machine with a 1TB HD and you can run umbrel as a stand alone or as a VM, or mynode as a VM and it's all behind TOR and you don't have to trust anyone.

You can do what you have to do with a tor enabled web browser or with a light wallet and never have to worry about who sees what.
If someone or some government is looking that closely at you it really does not matter what you are doing.

As for linking wallets, just use coin control. Or joinmarket.

-Dave

I don't know what British Virgin Islands has to do with privacy, since Coinomi is closed source, doesn't have built in Tor support, and it uses centralized third parties for exchanging coins.
Nobody asked for multicoin wallets here, but  I think Unstoppable.money wallet is much better for that purpose and it has Tor support with exchange.

PS
Please STOP spamming other topics with Coinomi promotion!

So you get absolutely zero privacy from Coinomi since everything goes through their servers. They are also closed source and previously were caught sending seed phrases to Google servers. All round a terrible a choice of wallet which provides zero privacy at all.

Which, given that it is a light wallet, depends on someone else's node, so is not fully private. If you are interested in privacy, the only wallets you should be running for either Bitcoin or Monero are full node wallets or light wallets which connect exclusively to your own full node.